US mass shooting of the day

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Gfamily
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Gfamily » Wed May 25, 2022 5:59 pm

The Onion has a point to make
Spoiler:
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
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Stranger Mouse
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed May 25, 2022 6:10 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 5:59 pm
The Onion has a point to make
Spoiler:
So does Beto O’Rourke!

https://twitter.com/natsechobbyist/stat ... 7ZBEHlWRcA
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Al Capone Junior
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Al Capone Junior » Wed May 25, 2022 6:47 pm

Well another (possibly iffy) Source said last year the US had 349 mass shootings. Almost one per day. I'm sure we'll top that this year (as the carnage in Uvalde is on the news right now, but might get bumped by the next massacre before the next newscast).

Bottom lines:

1. The brave, heroic flag waving 2nd ammendment floggers who imagine themselves saving the day, stopping the evil satan-cabal-pedophile-atheist child trafficker/home invader, just in the nick of time, then receiving all kinds of praise and awards the next day commemorating their smart decision to keep a loaded gun handy... well it just doesn't exist. I think there's like one of these every other blue moon that falls on Friday the 13th in February during leap years. Virtually never does someone actually save the day and validate the supposed reasoning for their gun fetish.

2. What actually happens is that guns give you an opportunity to make a really, really important decision, that can't be reversed later, in a real hurry. You get to decide when you're good and pissed off, skipping the need to waste precious seconds on such pointless, libtardian principles as rationality or forethought.

3. Thus the results Virtually always actually turn out to be that the gun weilder winds up shooting someone that they did not intend to shoot when they woke up that morning. Generally there will be many lives shattered by the consequences of their decision to keep a loaded gun handy, the shoot-ee and their family, the shooter and their family, and peripheral damages to their communities. How often, just after the bang bang, does the shooter regret pulling that trigger? Almost every single time.

4. Our gun fetish means that we're willing to accept around 40,000 or so deaths per year which are the direct result of arming the population (of mostly untrained, undisciplined morons). These deaths simply don't happen in other parts of the world. They only happen here, and it's directly caused by ourselves and our unreasonable attachments to firearms.

[But yet they scream blue bl..dy f.cking murder over sh.t like gmo's, vaccines, and immigration, none of which comes even remotely close to the carnage caused by all those guns.]

5. Humans are especially lousy at risk analysis, no matter how obvious the results should probably be. And we are simply atrocious at using our firearms fetush to bring about a less violent, more peaceful word.

The undeniable truth is something we in the US can easily avoid having to consider tho. We have whole political parties and social institutions dedicated to doing just that. Some examples are churches, the repugnicans, and the democrats.

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by jdc » Wed May 25, 2022 9:13 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 4:36 pm
a..eh.le politicians
Did you see the press conference with basketball coach and gun safety advocate Steve Kerr?

https://twitter.com/warriors/status/1529246789290934272

https://thehill.com/news/senate/3500893 ... e-to-pass/
So I ask you, [Senate Minority Leader] Mitch McConnell, I ask all of you senators who refuse to do anything about the violence and school shootings and supermarket shootings … I ask you, are you going to put your own desire for power ahead of the lives of our children and our elderly and our churchgoers?

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed May 25, 2022 9:40 pm

Even has its own Wikipedia page now https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way ... ly_Happens

Must be difficult doing proper satire these days.
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Millennie Al » Thu May 26, 2022 12:22 am

Where are all the pro-life campaigners? Are children at elementary school already too old to have a right to life?

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by temptar » Thu May 26, 2022 6:32 am

Well yes.

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu May 26, 2022 8:58 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:22 am
Where are all the pro-life campaigners? Are children at elementary school already too old to have a right to life?
George Carlin's '96 skit on abortion is also very pertinent to this attitude.

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by jimbob » Thu May 26, 2022 10:42 am

FlammableFlower wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 8:58 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:22 am
Where are all the pro-life campaigners? Are children at elementary school already too old to have a right to life?
George Carlin's '96 skit on abortion is also very pertinent to this attitude.
Was that the origin of"the right to life ends at birth"?
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Brightonian » Thu May 26, 2022 3:42 pm

Greg Abbott in 2015 wrote:I'm EMBARRASSED: Texas #2 in nation for new gun purchases, behind CALIFORNIA. Let's pick up the pace Texans. @NRA

https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/statu ... 7853536256

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Stranger Mouse » Fri May 27, 2022 7:28 am

People on Twitter circulating an extremely far fetched story from someone who is claiming Greg Abbott’s assistant threatened to make a surviving relative disappear if they told the press about an offer to pay them to support gun control. Don’t people ever take one second to ask themselves whether the things they read are just a little bit far fetched?

This however is all too believable

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... art-attack
The death toll from the Uvalde school shooting that killed 19 students and two teachers reached the campus’ extended family Thursday, when the husband of one of the slain teachers died of a heart attack.

Guadalupe “Joe” Garcia – the husband of 46-year-old Irma Garcia, who was shot and killed while sheltering children in her classroom – died two days after the mass killing that shattered his family, a cousin of his wife confirmed on a verified GoFundMe page.
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by shpalman » Fri May 27, 2022 2:44 pm

Grumble wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am
TimW wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:59 am
21.
Killed all the kids after being engaged by police. So the good guys with guns failed to stop the main attack.
Maybe if they hadn't have waited an hour before going in

they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed

Yes, that's in the job description of being a police officer in the US. You can't just expect to have to confront and kill unarmed people, while hiding from any genuine danger while children die.
molto tricky

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Gfamily
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Gfamily » Fri May 27, 2022 2:48 pm

There's a report that an officer went into the classroom and said "if you need help, shout "help"" A girl hiding under a table with some friends shouted "help" as instructed and the killer came out and shot her dead.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by EACLucifer » Fri May 27, 2022 3:31 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:44 pm
Grumble wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am
TimW wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:59 am
21.
Killed all the kids after being engaged by police. So the good guys with guns failed to stop the main attack.
Maybe if they hadn't have waited an hour before going in

they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed

Yes, that's in the job description of being a police officer in the US. You can't just expect to have to confront and kill unarmed people, while hiding from any genuine danger while children die.
In 2017, Wayne Marques went up against terrorists with bladed weapons armed only with a baton. He continued to fight them even after he was - temporarily - blinded in one eye.

This March, when a gunman linked to al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade (the PA ruling party Fatah's armed wing) started shooting up Bnei Brak with an M16, Israeli policeman Amir Khoury, along with a colleague, rushed to engage him despite the danger, killing the terrorist. Tragically, Amir Khoury was fatally wounded while doing so. As well as Amir Khoury, the attack killed four other people - two Israelis and two Ukrainians - but would have undoubtedly have been worse had those two policemen not placed their duty above their safety and engaged the attacker.

American police expect to be armed for a f.cking warzone, pretend to be warriors and demand people respect them for taking risks for the community, yet when the time comes to take those risks and do their duty, they f.cking cower. Everything that's coming out suggests this attack could have been stopped, possibly before anyone but the attacker was killed. The American policing system, with lots of small, unaccountable forces with large budgets by no oversight, evidently does not cultivate the skills required to deal with dangerous situations, nor the mindset of duty and responsibility required to accept risks for the sake of others. From what I've seen, there were parents trying to go in, and instead of doing their jobs and going in, the police obstructed the parents.

ETA: in addition, in a mass shooting situation in a Taiwanese church in the States, elderly parishioners subdued the attacker by hitting him with a chair, and in a hostage situation where an Islamic extremist from Britain took American Jews hostage in a synagogue, as his threats escalated the rabbi threw a chair at him, allowing all the hostages to escape. What. The. f.ck. Is. The. Police's. Excuse?

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by shpalman » Fri May 27, 2022 4:02 pm

US cops seem to think their lives are more important than those of the people they're supposedly protecting and serving, i.e. that they need to protect themselves from the people.
molto tricky

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Sciolus » Fri May 27, 2022 6:21 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:44 pm
Maybe if they hadn't have waited an hour before going in

they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed

Yes, that's in the job description of being a police officer in the US. You can't just expect to have to confront and kill unarmed people, while hiding from any genuine danger while children die.
This is true, and it's a bad thing. Still, I'm sure the Blue Lives Matter guys will be all over gun control now.

Thing is, a gun isn't a defensive weapon. It's purely offensive. The only way to defend yourself with a gun is to shoot the other person first. And if the other person has a gun and sees you with a gun, they have every incentive to shoot you immediately.

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Fishnut » Fri May 27, 2022 6:27 pm

shpalman wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 2:44 pm
Grumble wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 9:29 am
TimW wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 8:59 am
21.
Killed all the kids after being engaged by police. So the good guys with guns failed to stop the main attack.
Maybe if they hadn't have waited an hour before going in

they could’ve been shot, they could’ve been killed

Yes, that's in the job description of being a police officer in the US. You can't just expect to have to confront and kill unarmed people, while hiding from any genuine danger while children die.
US police do not have a constitutional duty to protect people, even if their lives are at risk. This has been affirmed several times by the courts. From this article, written after the Marjory Stoneman Douglass shooting,
“Neither the Constitution, nor state law, impose a general duty upon police officers or other governmental officials to protect individual persons from harm — even when they know the harm will occur,” said Darren L. Hutchinson, a professor and associate dean at the University of Florida School of Law. “Police can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution.”

The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the government has only a duty to protect persons who are “in custody,” he pointed out.

“Courts have rejected the argument that students are in custody of school officials while they are on campus,” Mr. Hutchinson said. “Custody is narrowly confined to situations where a person loses his or her freedom to move freely and seek assistance on their own — such as prisons, jails, or mental institutions.”
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri May 27, 2022 9:15 pm

A Starbucks barista doesn't have a constitutional duty to serve me a coffee, but they'd still get sacked for not doing it.
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Grumble » Fri May 27, 2022 9:53 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 9:15 pm
A Starbucks barista doesn't have a constitutional duty to serve me a coffee, but they'd still get sacked for not doing it.
Just as well the American police have qualified immunity isn’t it? Thankfully they almost never have to answer for their actions. Leads to all the best outcomes
A bit churlish

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Vertigowooyay » Fri May 27, 2022 11:26 pm

Trump’s speech at the NRA convention today is just the kind of explicit callousness you’d expect.
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Millennie Al » Sat May 28, 2022 12:33 am

From Report: Uvalde School Parents Tased and Arrested While Trying to Save Kids - actually describing a report in The Wall Street Journal, but that's paywalled.
Angeli Rose Gomez, the mother of a second and third grader at Robb Elementary ... was among the parents urging the police to take action.

“After a few minutes, she said, U.S. Marshals put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for actively intervening in an active investigation,” the Journal reported.

She told the news outlet she was able to convince Uvalde police officers whom she knew to persuade the marshals to uncuff her and let her go.

Once freed, she distanced herself from the crowd, climbed over the fence surrounding the school, ran into the school and got her two children out.
With policing like that, who needs criminals?


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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by Boustrophedon » Sat May 28, 2022 5:36 am

Spent yesterday arguing with gun nuts on twitter. Nothing has changed since last year when this thread started.
Sad.
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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by shpalman » Sat May 28, 2022 7:15 am

Good person with gun stops mass shooting
The suspect had driven by the area earlier on Wednesday evening when he was warned to slow down because children were playing.

He returned armed with an AR-15-type rifle and opened fire from his vehicle on the birthday-graduation party...

... the woman who fired back did not have any law enforcement background.
molto tricky

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Re: US mass shooting of the day

Post by jimbob » Sat May 28, 2022 7:51 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 12:33 am
From Report: Uvalde School Parents Tased and Arrested While Trying to Save Kids - actually describing a report in The Wall Street Journal, but that's paywalled.
Angeli Rose Gomez, the mother of a second and third grader at Robb Elementary ... was among the parents urging the police to take action.

“After a few minutes, she said, U.S. Marshals put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for actively intervening in an active investigation,” the Journal reported.

She told the news outlet she was able to convince Uvalde police officers whom she knew to persuade the marshals to uncuff her and let her go.

Once freed, she distanced herself from the crowd, climbed over the fence surrounding the school, ran into the school and got her two children out.
With policing like that, who needs criminals?
There are reports that they also tried to stop a Border Patrol SWAT team that wanted to go in as well
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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