The end of cows?

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Tessa K
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Re: The end of cows

Post by Tessa K » Sun May 16, 2021 11:51 am

shpalman wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:30 am
There still appears to be a myth that eating a lot of soy protein reduces testosterone.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.reprotox.2020.12.019

(It will, in the sense that eating a lot of anything leads to obesity and that does reduce testosterone.)
And, as we know, real men don't eat quiche. :D

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bjn
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Re: The end of cows

Post by bjn » Sun May 16, 2021 11:52 am

Tessa K wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 am
Oh dear.
The survey of 2,000 people, conducted by OnePoll on behalf of No Meat May, also found that more than half (51%) of British men and women associate a diet that contains a lot of meat with being ‘masculine’, while vegetarian (36%) and vegan (35%) diets are seen as more ‘feminine’.
Only 51%, better than I expected, plus I don’t take the “rather die” seriously. Split that generationally and I bet the young ‘uns don’t give a sh.t.

There’s also a rant to be had about how the nebulous concept of masculinity is just weird and doesn’t help much at all. Same goes with femininity. Stupid gender roles.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Tessa K » Sun May 16, 2021 12:02 pm

bjn wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:52 am
Tessa K wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 am
Oh dear.
The survey of 2,000 people, conducted by OnePoll on behalf of No Meat May, also found that more than half (51%) of British men and women associate a diet that contains a lot of meat with being ‘masculine’, while vegetarian (36%) and vegan (35%) diets are seen as more ‘feminine’.
Only 51%, better than I expected, plus I don’t take the “rather die” seriously. Split that generationally and I bet the young ‘uns don’t give a sh.t.

There’s also a rant to be had about how the nebulous concept of masculinity is just weird and doesn’t help much at all. Same goes with femininity. Stupid gender roles.
A generational split would probably reveal that the older people get, the more reluctant they are to comtemplate an early death.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by jimbob » Sun May 16, 2021 12:22 pm

basementer wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:32 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:27 pm
Once they've got the tech sorted I look forward to all sorts of weird species becoming available. Mammoths, okapis, albatrosses, why not human?
"Long pig". Not seen that expression used for a couple of decades.
Hey - how about "Soylent Green is People" for a real blast from the past... albeit something of a supposedly more recent origin.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Woodchopper » Sun May 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 12:02 pm
bjn wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:52 am
Tessa K wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 am


Oh dear.

Only 51%, better than I expected, plus I don’t take the “rather die” seriously. Split that generationally and I bet the young ‘uns don’t give a sh.t.

There’s also a rant to be had about how the nebulous concept of masculinity is just weird and doesn’t help much at all. Same goes with femininity. Stupid gender roles.
A generational split would probably reveal that the older people get, the more reluctant they are to comtemplate an early death.
The data was compiled by a market research firm which as far as I can tell hasn't published anything on questions used or other methods. Its purpose is probably clickbait and its probably best not to take it seriously.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Nero » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:40 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/j ... sh-tetrick

I couldn't find the previous thread we had on lab grown meat. This article is a little bit more critical than most. It does largely focus on just one company, Eat Just. But an interesting read nevertheless.

Post moved here to continue the discussion

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Re: The end of cows

Post by shpalman » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:48 pm

Nero wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:40 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/j ... sh-tetrick

I couldn't find the previous thread we had on lab grown meat. This article is a little bit more critical than most. It does largely focus on just one company, Eat Just. But an interesting read nevertheless.
Interviews with former employees and industry paint a picture of a founder adept at generating publicity and securing investors, even if it means sometimes bending the truth. Meanwhile, scientific experts and analysts have raised concerns that their breakthroughs may be more hype than reality, and that its products – and those of whatever industry this is* at large – are still far from viable on a mass scale.
* - this could be written about more or less any kind of start-up technology, especially the kind which regularly claims the mainstream is only n years away. Pity they aren't always this critical. Anyway, where did I put my night-vision glasses? I need them to find my nanotube-based electronics.
molto tricky

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:53 pm

shpalman wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:48 pm
Nero wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:40 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/j ... sh-tetrick

I couldn't find the previous thread we had on lab grown meat. This article is a little bit more critical than most. It does largely focus on just one company, Eat Just. But an interesting read nevertheless.
Interviews with former employees and industry paint a picture of a founder adept at generating publicity and securing investors, even if it means sometimes bending the truth. Meanwhile, scientific experts and analysts have raised concerns that their breakthroughs may be more hype than reality, and that its products – and those of whatever industry this is* at large – are still far from viable on a mass scale.
* - this could be written about more or less any kind of start-up technology, especially the kind which regularly claims the mainstream is only n years away. Pity they aren't always this critical. Anyway, where did I put my night-vision glasses? I need them to find my nanotube-based electronics.
Yes, I think the article's comparison with Uber was pretty apt.

Move fast, break things, keep the VC cash flowing in via self-promotion.

Still, I'd much prefer billionaires were investing in ideas to improve the world, rather than trying to flee to space or buying bomb-proof bunkers in which to ride out the climate wars.
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Re: The end of cows

Post by bmforre » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:15 pm

Many more cows for China
BEIJING, June 3 (Reuters) - China has come to crave milk. Demand that had been steadily growing has spiked further after doctors touted its health benefits amid the coronavirus pandemic and dairy firms across the country have embarked on a farm-building frenzy.

But quenching that thirst will be problematic, not least because finding the millions more cows needed for planned new and expanded farms will be challenging.

China is the world's third-largest milk producer, but last year's 34 million tonnes of output only met about 70% of domestic needs...

Spurred on by near record highs for raw milk prices and government subsidies, just over 200 new Chinese dairy farm projects were announced last year, according to consultancy Beijing Orient Dairy...
Looks like announcing the end of cows may be a bit premature.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by bjn » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:36 am

The thread was meant to be titled “The End of Cows?”, but you can’t put question marks in a thread title for no obvious reason.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:18 am

China is always behind with these things - coal, cows, genocide, the list goes on.
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Tessa K
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Re: The end of cows

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:23 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:18 am
China is always behind with these things - coal, cows, genocide, the list goes on.
With any luck there will be mass lactose intolerance.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by kerrya1 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:30 am

Tessa K wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:23 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:18 am
China is always behind with these things - coal, cows, genocide, the list goes on.
With any luck there will be mass lactose intolerance.
I was just about to comment that I thought lactose intolerance was much more common in people of East Asian descent.

Having quickly looked it up it appears that anywhere between 70-100% of adults may be lactose intolerant in adulthood depending on their specific origins, in China it looks like close to 90%. So either a lot of the people are happy with abdominal discomfort, all the milk is consumed by the other 10%, or producers are actively reducing the lactose content of their milk based products.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:57 am

I don't think it's that tricky to remove lactose. Intolerance seems quite common in Portugal, and lactose-free cows milk isn't much more expensive than the normal stuff.
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Re: The end of cows

Post by basementer » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:18 pm

Milk also gets consumed in the form of cheeses, a number of which (particularly mature hard ones) are low in lactose. I was able to eat them when I was lactose intolerant (after a course of antibiotics).
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Re: The end of cows

Post by Tessa K » Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:27 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:57 am
I don't think it's that tricky to remove lactose. Intolerance seems quite common in Portugal, and lactose-free cows milk isn't much more expensive than the normal stuff.
Otherwise there is going to be a LOT of farting in China.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by bmforre » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:11 pm

China want milk for children:
BEIJING, May 15 (Xinhua) -- A nutrition and health guide for Chinese children and adolescents released Saturday calls for improvement in children's diets and efforts to strengthen childhood nutrition education.

The guide, published by the Chinese Association for Student Nutrition and Health Promotion, underlined the need to address undesirable eating patterns among children despite major progress in childhood nutrition and fitness in the country.

The undesirable eating patterns mainly include low intake of vegetables, fruits, aquatic products, eggs, beans and milk, which is more prevalent in rural and less developed areas, it says...

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Re: The end of cows

Post by discovolante » Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:46 pm

bjn wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:36 am
The thread was meant to be titled “The End of Cows?”, but you can’t put question marks in a thread title for no obvious reason.
You should be able to - see various other thread titles in relaxation station for example. So I dunno what happened to you :? Anyway I've edited one into the thread title but not the replies because I cba so sorry if that's made things more confusing.
I'M HEATING STREAKY BACON IN A TROUSER PRESS

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Re: The end of cows?

Post by shpalman » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:48 pm

Eating processed meat raises risk of heart disease by a fifth
In the UK, 10% of people are expected to die from coronary heart disease eventually, a figure the researchers estimate could be reduced to 9% if people cut their red meat intake by three-quarters or stopped consuming it.
Hm.
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Re: The end of cows?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:16 am

Good news, everyone:
One in three Britons drink plant-based milk, according to a report that suggests they have become a mainstream choice for consumers.

Shoppers spent £100m more in 2020 on alt-milks, made from oats, almonds or soya, turning it into a near £400m-a-year market.

The research, from Mintel, said 32% of those polled drank plant-based milk, which was up from 25% in 2020. The uptake is even higher among 25- to 44-year-olds at 44%.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ilk-demand
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Re: The end of cows?

Post by shpalman » Thu May 12, 2022 6:38 am

Products such as soya milk, fruit smoothies and raw vegetables can trigger pollen food syndrome attacks
... an earlier version said that “PFS is caused by unstable pollen antibodies found in proteins in some raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soya”. That should have been expressed as “unstable pollen proteins recognising and reacting to similar proteins in some raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soya”.
That doesn't help, “unstable pollen proteins recognising and reacting to similar proteins in some raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soya” makes even less sense to me. It seems to be, more obviously, caused because many plant based foods – fruit, vegetables, nuts and cereals, have a protein structure that is very similar to the pollens in trees, grasses and weeds [so that] the immune system recognises the food protein that you eat as an allergen and creates an allergic responses.
molto tricky

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Re: The end of cows?

Post by basementer » Thu May 12, 2022 1:33 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 6:38 am
Products such as soya milk, fruit smoothies and raw vegetables can trigger pollen food syndrome attacks
... an earlier version said that “PFS is caused by unstable pollen antibodies found in proteins in some raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soya”. That should have been expressed as “unstable pollen proteins recognising and reacting to similar proteins in some raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soya”.
That doesn't help, “unstable pollen proteins recognising and reacting to similar proteins in some raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soya” makes even less sense to me. It seems to be, more obviously, caused because many plant based foods – fruit, vegetables, nuts and cereals, have a protein structure that is very similar to the pollens in trees, grasses and weeds [so that] the immune system recognises the food protein that you eat as an allergen and creates an allergic responses.
The journalist really needs to work on their Second Mention game. The leading expert warned, then said, then added, but then said again and added again. She could have, e.g., claimed, declared, asserted, postulated, speculated, explained or argued.
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Re: The end of cows?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu May 12, 2022 2:18 pm

Seems a bit of a clickbaity headline. People are eating more fruit and veg, as they should, which is healthier and more sustainable. This occasionally triggers a reaction in people who have an allergy. It's not like it's only vegetarians and vegans who eat fruits and vegetables, and it's not like eating meat and dairy alongside your allergens is going to stop you having an allergic reaction:
It is someone’s inherent sensitivity to pollen, rather than the fact they follow a meat-free diet, that puts them at risk
And in the first paragraph
Attacks of PFS are usually triggered by eating raw nuts, fruit and vegetables. However, they can also be prompted by foods popular among people who avoid animal products, such as soya milk, avocados, jackfruit, edamame beans and smoothies.
I'm not sure what the "however" and "also" are doing there. Avocados, soya milk and smoothies are raw fruit and vegetables. Edamame beans and usually jackfruit are cooked, which seems to be contradicted by the next paragraph that says
raw – but not cooked – fruits and vegetables, nuts and soy
are to blame.
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Re: The end of cows?

Post by shpalman » Thu May 12, 2022 3:11 pm

The mention of edamame just made me think of that recent South Park episode. Not sure what it's doing in that list.
molto tricky

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Re: The end of cows?

Post by basementer » Thu May 12, 2022 8:36 pm

shpalman wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 3:11 pm
The mention of edamame just made me think of that recent South Park episode. Not sure what it's doing in that list.
Second Mention - the journalist, having written "soya" already in the same sentence, didn't want to call them "soy beans" .
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