The end of cows?

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Woodchopper
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Re: The end of cows

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 pm

bjn wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm
Thanks for that Kerry. Cool, so it’s another example of it happening. Things like milk and milk products, which are just unstructured mixtures, will be way easier to synthesise than meat.
Definitely, ice cream seems to be one of the most developed products.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Stephanie » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:46 pm

Moved the food heritage chat to here viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2383
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Re: The end of cows

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:52 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:46 pm
Moved the food heritage chat to here viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2383
Thanks Stephanie!

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Re: The end of cows

Post by bjn » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:53 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:52 pm
Stephanie wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:46 pm
Moved the food heritage chat to here viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2383
Thanks Stephanie!
Same from me.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by kerrya1 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:03 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 pm
bjn wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm
Thanks for that Kerry. Cool, so it’s another example of it happening. Things like milk and milk products, which are just unstructured mixtures, will be way easier to synthesise than meat.
Definitely, ice cream seems to be one of the most developed products.
There are vegan ice creams that I much prefer to dairy ice creams. The problem that I personally find with many of the most common (available in the supermarket) vegan substitute products is that they either contain nuts to which I'm severly allergic or Palm Oil with no ethical/sustainbility information. So, while I'd happily switch to more veggie or vegan foods I have issues with many of them. Hopefully as more products become available the increased variety will mean I can more easily avoid them.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:46 am

kerrya1 wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:03 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 pm
bjn wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:01 pm
Thanks for that Kerry. Cool, so it’s another example of it happening. Things like milk and milk products, which are just unstructured mixtures, will be way easier to synthesise than meat.
Definitely, ice cream seems to be one of the most developed products.
There are vegan ice creams that I much prefer to dairy ice creams. The problem that I personally find with many of the most common (available in the supermarket) vegan substitute products is that they either contain nuts to which I'm severly allergic or Palm Oil with no ethical/sustainbility information. So, while I'd happily switch to more veggie or vegan foods I have issues with many of them. Hopefully as more products become available the increased variety will mean I can more easily avoid them.
Palm oil with no sustainability information is still better than dairy with no sustainability information, and probably better than dairy with sustainability information. Cows and their fodder cause way more deforestation.

I do find it 'interesting' the way people (in general, not you specifically kerrya1) have latched onto palm oil (a thing that happens "over there"), but often never give a moment's thought to eating beef.
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Re: The end of cows

Post by kerrya1 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:51 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:46 am
kerrya1 wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:03 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 pm


Definitely, ice cream seems to be one of the most developed products.
There are vegan ice creams that I much prefer to dairy ice creams. The problem that I personally find with many of the most common (available in the supermarket) vegan substitute products is that they either contain nuts to which I'm severly allergic or Palm Oil with no ethical/sustainbility information. So, while I'd happily switch to more veggie or vegan foods I have issues with many of them. Hopefully as more products become available the increased variety will mean I can more easily avoid them.
Palm oil with no sustainability information is still better than dairy with no sustainability information, and probably better than dairy with sustainability information. Cows and their fodder cause way more deforestation.

I do find it 'interesting' the way people (in general, not you specifically kerrya1) have latched onto palm oil (a thing that happens "over there"), but often never give a moment's thought to eating beef.
I have a very specific hatred of Palm Oil because Orangutans are my favourite animals. I know that palm oil is more land efficient than many alternatives, so truely sustainable palm oil is probably the best option but until I can be confident of that I do tend to avoid palm oil and its derivatives.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Woodchopper » Sun May 09, 2021 7:00 am

Israeli start-up Future Meat has claimed a huge leap towards commercial viability for its lab-grown chicken, slashing production costs by almost half in just a few months.

The company, whose backers include Archer Daniels Midland, Tyson Foods and S2G, said it was now producing a 110 gramme chicken breast for just under $4, down from $7.50 announced at the start of the year.

Rom Kshuk, chief executive, said he expected the cost to fall to below $2 in the next 12-18 months.
https://www.ft.com/content/ae4dd452-f3e ... 16c5280bc7

Company website: http://future-meat.com/

The equivalent average price in a US supermarket would be $0.78. https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlanti ... _table.htm

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Re: The end of cows

Post by bjn » Sun May 09, 2021 2:19 pm

For those with religious dietary requirements would you be able to eat cultured meat? A cow cell is not a cow, Hindus drink milk which contain cow cells, so could they be able to eat culture cow cells? Similarly for halal/kosher, do cultured pig cells count as pig?

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun May 09, 2021 2:57 pm

Interesting question. Opinions differ - decent summary for Islam here https://gulfnews.com/business/is-lab-gr ... 1.62531421

Obviously old religious texts don't consider lab meat, so it's up to interpretation. For instance, some orthodox Jews won't use light switches on the Sabbath because it's too much like work, whereas others think that's fine. I'd be surprised if there was widespread acceptance of lab pork, because it's still cells from a prohibited animal, but the slaughter requirements for halal don't necessarily apply.

The world's 1 billion plus Muslims are a growing market for meat, so I expect there'll be a fair amount of interest in this over the years.
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Re: The end of cows

Post by dyqik » Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm

An interesting one will be the extent to which cells from one animal species can be made to mimic meat from another. I can imagine that lab grown cow, or even chicken, muscle and fat cells could be persuaded to grow to look, act and taste like streaky bacon.

And there may be an option of mixing cells from different species in one product.

Another thing is whether there are cells from non-traditional Western food species that would fit this production method.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Woodchopper » Sun May 09, 2021 4:17 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm
An interesting one will be the extent to which cells from one animal species can be made to mimic meat from another. I can imagine that lab grown cow, or even chicken, muscle and fat cells could be persuaded to grow to look, act and taste like streaky bacon.

And there may be an option of mixing cells from different species in one product.

Another thing is whether there are cells from non-traditional Western food species that would fit this production method.
Also interesting is whether cells with completely new flavours and textures could be developed. Go down that road and future generations may perceive slaughtered meat to be boring.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by dyqik » Sun May 09, 2021 4:18 pm

Although you can claim that that's already been attempted, and the results were turkey bacon and hot dogs. ;)

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Tessa K » Sun May 09, 2021 4:22 pm

dyqik wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm
An interesting one will be the extent to which cells from one animal species can be made to mimic meat from another. I can imagine that lab grown cow, or even chicken, muscle and fat cells could be persuaded to grow to look, act and taste like streaky bacon.

And there may be an option of mixing cells from different species in one product.

Another thing is whether there are cells from non-traditional Western food species that would fit this production method.
Hhm. I do like a chicken and bacon sandwich but wouldn't want one meat that tasted of both as I enjoy the two different textures. They could both be made of the same thing though.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun May 09, 2021 4:27 pm

Once they've got the tech sorted I look forward to all sorts of weird species becoming available. Mammoths, okapis, albatrosses, why not human?
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Re: The end of cows

Post by basementer » Sun May 09, 2021 4:32 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:27 pm
Once they've got the tech sorted I look forward to all sorts of weird species becoming available. Mammoths, okapis, albatrosses, why not human?
"Long pig". Not seen that expression used for a couple of decades.
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Re: The end of cows

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun May 09, 2021 4:36 pm

He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

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Re: The end of cows

Post by shpalman » Sun May 09, 2021 4:48 pm

I've recently tried a couple of different flavours of the "Unconventional" burger, the tomato one is more of an obvious "veggie burger" but they're not bad. It's not obvious to me how it's connected to these other technologies, it seems to be produced in Italy by a company called Conbio out of soy protein and beetroot.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Nero » Tue May 11, 2021 1:48 pm

Article about the recent The Good Food Institute (GFI) annual industry report:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nvestments

A few snippets:
The nascent industry growing real meat in bioreactors had a record-breaking year in 2020, with investment growing sixfold and dozens of new companies being founded.
A study also indicates that 80% of people in the UK and US are open to eating meat produced in a factory rather than a field
cultivated meat companies received more than €300m in investment in 2020, and the number of companies grew by 43% to 76.
several companies were moving out of the lab and into facilities capable of producing thousands of kilograms of meat a year.
The research on attitudes to cultivated meat is published in the journal Foods and examined the views of 4,000 representative consumers, half in the UK and half in the US. “We found a high level of openness – 80% – in both the US and UK populations, with 40% highly likely to try and 40% somewhat or moderately likely to try,” the researchers said.
The results suggest that cultivated meat is likely to be widely accepted by the general public, especially the younger generations and an eager group of early adopters who appreciate its benefits
GFI’s report says fundamental technological breakthroughs are not necessary to produce mass-market cultivated meat, but that engineering challenges remain to keep reducing costs.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by dyqik » Tue May 11, 2021 2:32 pm

Nero wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:48 pm
Article about the recent The Good Food Institute (GFI) annual industry report:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nvestments

A few snippets:
A study also indicates that 80% of people in the UK and US are open to eating meat produced in a factory rather than a field
Snarky response: 80% of people in the UK and US probably are already eating meat produced in a factory farm, at least some of the time.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Woodchopper » Tue May 11, 2021 2:42 pm

Nero wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:48 pm
Article about the recent The Good Food Institute (GFI) annual industry report:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nvestments

A few snippets:
The nascent industry growing real meat in bioreactors had a record-breaking year in 2020, with investment growing sixfold and dozens of new companies being founded.
A study also indicates that 80% of people in the UK and US are open to eating meat produced in a factory rather than a field
cultivated meat companies received more than €300m in investment in 2020, and the number of companies grew by 43% to 76.
several companies were moving out of the lab and into facilities capable of producing thousands of kilograms of meat a year.
The research on attitudes to cultivated meat is published in the journal Foods and examined the views of 4,000 representative consumers, half in the UK and half in the US. “We found a high level of openness – 80% – in both the US and UK populations, with 40% highly likely to try and 40% somewhat or moderately likely to try,” the researchers said.
The results suggest that cultivated meat is likely to be widely accepted by the general public, especially the younger generations and an eager group of early adopters who appreciate its benefits
GFI’s report says fundamental technological breakthroughs are not necessary to produce mass-market cultivated meat, but that engineering challenges remain to keep reducing costs.
Here's a link to the report. https://gfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2021 ... 1-0429.pdf

One key thing to watch is how quickly and under what conditions it takes for regulators to approve the new products in key markets like the EU, US and Japan. Expect opposition from the traditional farming industry. Regulatory approval could be dragged out for years and there have already been attempts to legislate requirements that marketing use terms like "lab-created".

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Re: The end of cows

Post by monkey » Tue May 11, 2021 6:18 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:27 pm
Once they've got the tech sorted I look forward to all sorts of weird species becoming available. Mammoths, okapis, albatrosses, why not human?
Just happened to watch this last night.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by shpalman » Sun May 16, 2021 10:41 am

molto tricky

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Re: The end of cows

Post by Tessa K » Sun May 16, 2021 11:05 am

Oh dear.
The survey of 2,000 people, conducted by OnePoll on behalf of No Meat May, also found that more than half (51%) of British men and women associate a diet that contains a lot of meat with being ‘masculine’, while vegetarian (36%) and vegan (35%) diets are seen as more ‘feminine’.

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Re: The end of cows

Post by shpalman » Sun May 16, 2021 11:30 am

There still appears to be a myth that eating a lot of soy protein reduces testosterone.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.reprotox.2020.12.019

(It will, in the sense that eating a lot of anything leads to obesity and that does reduce testosterone.)
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