Journal of controversial ideas

[Grumble]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

Someone notable (but I was told this anecdote by my father in law and have forgotten who it was) said he loved any Bob Dylan song, as long as it was sung by anyone other than Bob Dylan.

[bjn]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

His songwriting is fine, is singing is execrable. One of my BFFs from highschool loves Dylan beyond compare (to the point of seeing every show in Sydney and Melbourne that Dylan put on while touring Australia), I've never been able to admit it to him.

[basementer]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

You know that's Allen Ginsberg in the background, I hope?

[snoozeofreason]

I have no strong opinions about Marmite. If we didn't have any other spread in the house, and the alternative was dry toast, I'd probably eat some. But on the other hand, I'd never buy it for myself, and I don't think I'd notice if they stopped making it.

[Boustrophedon]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

Someone notable (but I was told this anecdote by my father in law and have forgotten who it was) said he loved any Bob Dylan song, as long as it was sung by anyone other than Bob Dylan.

Totally agree.

I can't stand the singing of Bryan Ferry, David Bowie or Benjamin Britten either.

[bmforre]

I can't stand the singing of ... Benjamin Britten either.

How about Glenn Gould?

[Gfamily]

I can't stand the singing of ... Benjamin Britten either.

How about Glenn Gould?

Hmmm

[basementer]

I can't stand the singing of ... Benjamin Britten either.

How about Glenn Gould?

Hmmm

It's noticeable that Keith Jarrett is like that in his improvised piano work, but yet he recorded the Goldberg Variations and the Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues gruntlessly.

[Woodchopper]

Possibly controversial opinion. Keith Jarret's The Köln Concert is very over rated.

Yes, it has some pleasant moments. But it goes on and on and is self indulgent. The good bits could probably have been distilled into three or four much shorter tracks.

[Boustrophedon]

I can't stand the singing of ... Benjamin Britten either.

How about Glenn Gould?

No idea, not heard of him, he would seem to be a pianist, did he sing?

[Tessa K]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

Someone notable (but I was told this anecdote by my father in law and have forgotten who it was) said he loved any Bob Dylan song, as long as it was sung by anyone other than Bob Dylan.

Totally agree.

I can't stand the singing of Bryan Ferry, David Bowie or Benjamin Britten either.

I disagree about the first two, don't know about the third.

I would add Amy Winehouse's voice to the list although the songs are OK. To me it sounds like she's about to be sick all the time.

[dyqik]

I have no strong opinions about Marmite. If we didn't have any other spread in the house, and the alternative was dry toast, I'd probably eat some. But on the other hand, I'd never buy it for myself, and I don't think I'd notice if they stopped making it.

Believers: "Burn the Agnostic!"
Unbelievers: "Have you tried feeding them hemlock instead of burning?"

[Tessa K]

I have no strong opinions about Marmite. If we didn't have any other spread in the house, and the alternative was dry toast, I'd probably eat some. But on the other hand, I'd never buy it for myself, and I don't think I'd notice if they stopped making it.

Believers: "Burn the Agnostic!"
Unbelievers: "Have you tried feeding them hemlock instead of burning?"

Hemlock would be more environmentally friendly.

[tom p]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

That's only controversial in that it's entirely uncontroversial. Most overrated musician/songwriter ever.

[Woodchopper]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

That's only controversial in that it's entirely uncontroversial. Most overrated musician/songwriter ever.

I disagree. He's a great song writer. He's second only to Lennon and McCartney for the number of other artists that have covered his work. It might not be to your taste, but it is very popular.

But Dylan is the one artist for whom the covers are reliably better than the original. He was never any good as a singer or guitarist.

[tom p]

At great risk to my personal safety I'm going to say I really don't get Bob Dylan. I've tried but I hate his voice and it's only the video for Subterranean Homesick Blues that makes it interesting. <runs away and hides>

That's only controversial in that it's entirely uncontroversial. Most overrated musician/songwriter ever.

I disagree. He's a great song writer. He's second only to Lennon and McCartney for the number of other artists that have covered his work. It might not be to your taste, but it is very popular.

But Dylan is the one artist for whom the covers are reliably better than the original. He was never any good as a singer or guitarist.

I didn't say he was bad, just overrated. He was awarded the Nobel prize for literature, and yet his songs are just kind of OK. Well, some of them are. Many are just word salad, and there are very many far better songwriters around. I think that the reason he's so covered is (a) age & (b) any cover is pretty much guaranteed to be better than the original (unless it's a primary school class playing blowing in the wind on recorders).

[Tessa K]

That's only controversial in that it's entirely uncontroversial. Most overrated musician/songwriter ever.

I disagree. He's a great song writer. He's second only to Lennon and McCartney for the number of other artists that have covered his work. It might not be to your taste, but it is very popular.

But Dylan is the one artist for whom the covers are reliably better than the original. He was never any good as a singer or guitarist.

I didn't say he was bad, just overrated. He was awarded the Nobel prize for literature, and yet his songs are just kind of OK. Well, some of them are. Many are just word salad, and there are very many far better songwriters around. I think that the reason he's so covered is (a) age & (b) any cover is pretty much guaranteed to be better than the original (unless it's a primary school class playing blowing in the wind on recorders).

The best version of Blowin in the Wind (and great images):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcynRnI7uAo

[causan_dux]

his songs are just kind of OK. Well, some of them are. Many are just word salad, and there are very many far better songwriters around.

OK tom p, so I had a word with Robert Z, who obviously knows of your reputation as a critic. He takes on board what you say and will try to do better next time. He just wishes you could have got this information to him earlier, given his age and the number of songs already under his belt.

I suggested he might like to adapt the lyrics of a better songwriter to some of his tunes and we discussed whether

Where the hood, where the hood, where the hood at?/Have that ***** in the cut, where the wood at?/Oh, them ****** actin up? Where the wolves at?/You better bust that if you gon' pull that

might enhance the melody of All Along the Watchtower. Ultimately, we felt that song's virulent homophobia wasn't really Robert's thing, although we know you are very fond of the late performer.

I said I'd report back to you. In parting, he said perhaps you would give Idiot Wind a second listen as he felt it might have something to say to you.

[jimbob]

I think that captions for figures in papers and reports should be above the figure not below.

Especially if you're reading an online report and the captions are cross-referenced as you tend to jump to the caption at the top of the screen, so the figure would be above the top.

But even if not online. Do you look above Chapter 5 for the story in Chapter 5?

[Tessa K]

I just looked it up and lots of Dylan songs were based on traditional ones. There's nothing wrong with doing this and he's not alone but to me that undermines his originality. But then, I am biased and I don't care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... lier_tunes

[dyqik]

I think that captions for figures in papers and reports should be above the figure not below.

Especially if you're reading an online report and the captions are cross-referenced as you tend to jump to the caption at the top of the screen, so the figure would be above the top.

But even if not online. Do you look above Chapter 5 for the story in Chapter 5?

I scroll through to find the interesting figures, then scroll down to see what the figure is about.

[tom p]

his songs are just kind of OK. Well, some of them are. Many are just word salad, and there are very many far better songwriters around.

OK tom p, so I had a word with Robert Z, who obviously knows of your reputation as a critic. He takes on board what you say and will try to do better next time. He just wishes you could have got this information to him earlier, given his age and the number of songs already under his belt.

I suggested he might like to adapt the lyrics of a better songwriter to some of his tunes and we discussed whether

Where the hood, where the hood, where the hood at?/Have that ***** in the cut, where the wood at?/Oh, them ****** actin up? Where the wolves at?/You better bust that if you gon' pull that

might enhance the melody of All Along the Watchtower. Ultimately, we felt that song's virulent homophobia wasn't really Robert's thing, although we know you are very fond of the late performer.

I said I'd report back to you. In parting, he said perhaps you would give Idiot Wind a second listen as he felt it might have something to say to you.

You seem to have mistaken me for a fan of DMX, rather than an enemy of boorish loudmouthed arrogant ignorance.

Either way, as a (former) born-again Christian, the poor man's Woody Guthrie (a greater songwriter, and one who could actually sing) is something of a fellow traveler with homophobes, so whilst he might not like such lyrics, I doubt he'd always have bridled at virulent homophobia.

[IvanV]

I can't stand the singing of ... Benjamin Britten either.

How about Glenn Gould?

No idea, not heard of him, he would seem to be a pianist, did he sing?

I assume the reference is to the extraneous vocal noises Gould made while performing at piano, kind of humming along with himself, which are unfortunately all too audible on some of his recordings.

It's not a unique failing. A reasonably well-known English conductor has the habit of making percussive ch-ch-ch type noises in time with the music as he conducts. So it's not a good idea to sit too close to the front at his concerts.

I'm not aware of Benjamin Britten singing, nor can I think of anything this is a joke reference to. Maybe there is a confusion with Peter Pears.

[nezumi]

Bacon. Can't stand it, can't stand the smell of it, can't even look at it in a supermarket.

[Bird on a Fire]

I hope at least some of you are planning to write up these submissions for the journal in question.