Journal of controversial ideas

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
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dyqik
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by dyqik » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm

I'd like to submit my article "Monty Python Quotes: An unimaginative substitute for humor?"

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:41 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm
I'd like to submit my article "Monty Python Quotes: An unimaginative substitute for humor?"
You shall not pass (peer review)!

#timthereviewer2
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by philbo » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:06 am

dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm
I'd like to submit my article "Monty Python Quotes: An unimaginative substitute for humor?"
Is this the right thread for an argument?

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by tom p » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:04 am

philbo wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:06 am
dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm
I'd like to submit my article "Monty Python Quotes: An unimaginative substitute for humor?"
Is this the right thread for an argument?
No, this argument is dead. It's gone to join the choir invisible... [continue ad nauseam]

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by insignificant » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:48 am

dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm
I'd like to submit my article "Monty Python Quotes: An unimaginative substitute for humor?"
That's not controversial

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dyqik
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by dyqik » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:20 pm

insignificant wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:48 am
dyqik wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:12 pm
I'd like to submit my article "Monty Python Quotes: An unimaginative substitute for humor?"
That's not controversial
Judging by the posts above, it is.

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Tessa K
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Tessa K » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:01 pm

All the schoolkids on buses who don't sit still so it's impossible to avoid the little germbags should be put in cages. Very small cages.

Centre partings on men are just wrong as is wearing gingery brown shoes.

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Fishnut
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Fishnut » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:57 pm

I missed that the first issue is out. A tweet alerted me to this paper:

Black Pete, King Balthasar, and the New Orleans Zulus: Can Black Make-Up Traditions Ever Be Justified?
Wearing black make-up to impersonate black individuals has become highly controversial in many countries, even when it is part of long-standing cultural traditions... In this article, I challenge the widely held view that black make-up traditions are categorically wrong. Specifically, I argue that these traditions can be morally vindicated if (i) the large majority of individuals who help to maintain them do not believe that they denigrate black people; (ii) the relevant traditions do not depict black people in denigrating ways; and (iii) the relevant traditions are not gratuitously offensive.
Impressively, the author has foregone the opportunity to remain anonymous.
it's okay to say "I don't know"

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bjn
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by bjn » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:06 pm

If I had the spare time I’d love to set up a spoof version. A basic website pretending to be an open access journal, would steal “Journal of Uncontroversial Ideas” for the title.

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Little waster » Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:14 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:57 pm
I argue that these traditions can be morally vindicated if (i) the large majority of individuals who help to maintain them do not believe that they denigrate black people; (ii) the relevant traditions do not depict black people in denigrating ways; and (iii) the relevant traditions are not gratuitously offensive.
Wow what an amazing and novel idea, thank god we have this journal as otherwise this idea would have never been aired ... other than by every pissed racist tw.t in my local pub on any given (non-lockdown) Friday evening obviously.
It's meta, so it is allowed.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:18 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:57 pm
I missed that the first issue is out. A tweet alerted me to this paper:

Black Pete, King Balthasar, and the New Orleans Zulus: Can Black Make-Up Traditions Ever Be Justified?
Wearing black make-up to impersonate black individuals has become highly controversial in many countries, even when it is part of long-standing cultural traditions... In this article, I challenge the widely held view that black make-up traditions are categorically wrong. Specifically, I argue that these traditions can be morally vindicated if (i) the large majority of individuals who help to maintain them do not believe that they denigrate black people; (ii) the relevant traditions do not depict black people in denigrating ways; and (iii) the relevant traditions are not gratuitously offensive.
Impressively, the author has foregone the opportunity to remain anonymous.
He seems to be taking it to ludicrous extremes in his work profile picture there.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Squeak » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:45 pm

Thanks for the linkage. What a dull and tin-eared paper it is too. There is a really interesting and nuanced conversation to be had about the Krewe of Zulu and what happens when a marginalised group of people pick up a story that inspires pride, despite that story itself being morally problematic. In the local culture of New Orleans, being a white person who joins the Krewe seems to be seen as a mark of your racial liberalism, in stark contrast to blackface usage elsewhere. Which is a genuinely interesting phenomenon, though there is definitely at least some local opposition to the practice too. Like I said, a complicated and nuanced conversation to be had.

But with no more depth to his analysis than a thousand newspaper articles, de Vries doesn't exactly bring anything new to the table. Still, he got to publish a paper arguing that sometimes blackface is ok, which I'm sure is titillating for him.

As an aside, he did make my favourite typo of the week. I love the mental image of Zulu worriers repelling British forces. Presumably their anxieties were completely overwhelming.

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Holylol » Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:22 am

I think this journal is going to become my favorite read when I am feeling down.

I have just read the abstract, but this looks like a gem:
https://journalofcontroversialideas.org/article/1/1/139

The bibliography is in fact footnotes and references to wikipedia

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bob sterman
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by bob sterman » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:00 pm

Holylol wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 11:22 am
I think this journal is going to become my favorite read when I am feeling down.

I have just read the abstract, but this looks like a gem:
https://journalofcontroversialideas.org/article/1/1/139

The bibliography is in fact footnotes and references to wikipedia
It appears to be written by someone who doesn't really know what a "coma" is - thinks it's like putting your computer into sleep mode and waking it up again.

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by sTeamTraen » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:47 pm

bob sterman wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:00 pm
It appears to be written by someone who doesn't really know what a "coma" is - thinks it's like putting your computer into sleep mode and waking it up again.
If there was a medically neutral way to put someone in a "pure coma" for X years then I think this could be the basis of an interesting abstract philosophical discussion about punishment. But there isn't. (A certain amount of early Covid "skepticism" seemed to imagine that being on a ventilator for a month was a bit of a jape, like getting stuck somewhere on holiday due to a coup that closed the airport. Something to talk about at dinner parties.)
Something something hammer something something nail

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Tessa K » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:52 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:47 pm
bob sterman wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:00 pm
It appears to be written by someone who doesn't really know what a "coma" is - thinks it's like putting your computer into sleep mode and waking it up again.
If there was a medically neutral way to put someone in a "pure coma" for X years then I think this could be the basis of an interesting abstract philosophical discussion about punishment. But there isn't. (A certain amount of early Covid "skepticism" seemed to imagine that being on a ventilator for a month was a bit of a jape, like getting stuck somewhere on holiday due to a coup that closed the airport. Something to talk about at dinner parties.)
Based on no knowledge at all I would guess it costs more to maintain someone safely in a coma for years than to put them in a cell. The penal system in many countries is already overstretched. Not that this is a reason to avoid discussing the theory but sometimes real-life considerations should be factored in. The coma punishment also precludes rehabilitation.

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:14 pm

This is basically going to be the journal equivalent of Parler, isn't it?
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by nezumi » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:33 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:52 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:47 pm
bob sterman wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:00 pm
It appears to be written by someone who doesn't really know what a "coma" is - thinks it's like putting your computer into sleep mode and waking it up again.
If there was a medically neutral way to put someone in a "pure coma" for X years then I think this could be the basis of an interesting abstract philosophical discussion about punishment. But there isn't. (A certain amount of early Covid "skepticism" seemed to imagine that being on a ventilator for a month was a bit of a jape, like getting stuck somewhere on holiday due to a coup that closed the airport. Something to talk about at dinner parties.)
Based on no knowledge at all I would guess it costs more to maintain someone safely in a coma for years than to put them in a cell. The penal system in many countries is already overstretched. Not that this is a reason to avoid discussing the theory but sometimes real-life considerations should be factored in. The coma punishment also precludes rehabilitation.
It's just basically a stupid idea. I wouldn't even call it contraversial because nobody in their right mind is promoting putting criminals in comas*. It's pointless. No rehabilitation, not really a punishment, costs a bomb and wastes resources like medical staff.

Journal of Total Write-Off Ideas - which is actually going to be the title of my book ;) Or would be, if I ever wrote a book.

* well, not medically induced ones anyway...
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.

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Tessa K
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Tessa K » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:31 pm

nezumi wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:33 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:52 pm
sTeamTraen wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:47 pm


If there was a medically neutral way to put someone in a "pure coma" for X years then I think this could be the basis of an interesting abstract philosophical discussion about punishment. But there isn't. (A certain amount of early Covid "skepticism" seemed to imagine that being on a ventilator for a month was a bit of a jape, like getting stuck somewhere on holiday due to a coup that closed the airport. Something to talk about at dinner parties.)
Based on no knowledge at all I would guess it costs more to maintain someone safely in a coma for years than to put them in a cell. The penal system in many countries is already overstretched. Not that this is a reason to avoid discussing the theory but sometimes real-life considerations should be factored in. The coma punishment also precludes rehabilitation.
It's just basically a stupid idea. I wouldn't even call it contraversial because nobody in their right mind is promoting putting criminals in comas*. It's pointless. No rehabilitation, not really a punishment, costs a bomb and wastes resources like medical staff.

Journal of Total Write-Off Ideas - which is actually going to be the title of my book ;) Or would be, if I ever wrote a book.

* well, not medically induced ones anyway...
I get the point of thought experiments but if some of these articles were stand-up routines they'd be heckled off after a couple of lines. Have you heard the one about ... Is it just me or... get off, you're sh.t.

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Bewildered » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:08 am

Tessa K wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:31 pm
nezumi wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:33 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:52 pm


Based on no knowledge at all I would guess it costs more to maintain someone safely in a coma for years than to put them in a cell. The penal system in many countries is already overstretched. Not that this is a reason to avoid discussing the theory but sometimes real-life considerations should be factored in. The coma punishment also precludes rehabilitation.
It's just basically a stupid idea. I wouldn't even call it contraversial because nobody in their right mind is promoting putting criminals in comas*. It's pointless. No rehabilitation, not really a punishment, costs a bomb and wastes resources like medical staff.

Journal of Total Write-Off Ideas - which is actually going to be the title of my book ;) Or would be, if I ever wrote a book.

* well, not medically induced ones anyway...
I get the point of thought experiments but if some of these articles were stand-up routines they'd be heckled off after a couple of lines. Have you heard the one about ... Is it just me or... get off, you're sh.t.
I haven’t read it and if this was in a proper philosophy journal I’d wonder if the problem was really philosophers speculating while being too ignorant of the science or instead if it was science picking up on a lack of accuracy in fairly irrelevant detail to what the wider principles that are being explored by the philosopher. But this is not in a proper philosophy journal. To me it looks like it’s a weird vanity project from some famous people that is not fixed to any specific discipline, will be way too broad to get proper peer review and is more about making a stupid point than giving a place for serious science or philosophy or history etc or some combination thereof.

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Tessa K
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Tessa K » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:54 am

Bewildered wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:08 am
Tessa K wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:31 pm
nezumi wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:33 pm


It's just basically a stupid idea. I wouldn't even call it contraversial because nobody in their right mind is promoting putting criminals in comas*. It's pointless. No rehabilitation, not really a punishment, costs a bomb and wastes resources like medical staff.

Journal of Total Write-Off Ideas - which is actually going to be the title of my book ;) Or would be, if I ever wrote a book.

* well, not medically induced ones anyway...
I get the point of thought experiments but if some of these articles were stand-up routines they'd be heckled off after a couple of lines. Have you heard the one about ... Is it just me or... get off, you're sh.t.
I haven’t read it and if this was in a proper philosophy journal I’d wonder if the problem was really philosophers speculating while being too ignorant of the science or instead if it was science picking up on a lack of accuracy in fairly irrelevant detail to what the wider principles that are being explored by the philosopher. But this is not in a proper philosophy journal. To me it looks like it’s a weird vanity project from some famous people that is not fixed to any specific discipline, will be way too broad to get proper peer review and is more about making a stupid point than giving a place for serious science or philosophy or history etc or some combination thereof.
But calling it the Journal of Attention Seeking Bigots wouldn't have been as popular.

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Stephanie
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Stephanie » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:49 am

There was someone on twitter (I can't find the tweet at the moment) who joked about submitting something on Jar Jar Binks being great for Star Wars
"I got a flu virus named after me 'cause I kissed a bat on a dare."

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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by noggins » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:38 pm

Oh easy. The hatred for Jar Jar Binks deflected scrutiny from the crapness of the rest of film and the childish mediocrity of the whole series.

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Tessa K
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Re: Journal of controversial ideas

Post by Tessa K » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:10 pm

Anthony Hopkins is over-rated. His acting is always mannered (stiff, artificial, exaggerated) and often hammy. He leaves you in no doubt he is An Actor. He was terrible casting for Odin in the Marvel movies.

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