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New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:54 am
by lpm
As you will have seen, some top posters on Scrutable are breaking away to form a Super Forum with select European posters. This will enrich us greatly and presumably the wealth will trickle down to the rest of you some how. And don't worry: every Saturday we'll return to post comments to some of you lesser Scrutineers (although maybe with a second XI as obviously we'll want to keep our best posts for the proper forum).
Here's the ownership/control, in rough order of corruption levels:
Chelsea: Russian fossil fuel oligarchy
Man City: Abu Dhabi fossil fuel oligarchy
Inter Milan: Chinese billionaire
Juventus: Agnelli family billionaires
Tottenham: British billionaire tax exiles
Man Utd: American sporting conglomerate
Liverpool: American sporting conglomerate
Arsenal: American sporting conglomerate
AC Milan: American investment fund
Atletico Madrid: Spanish millionaire
Real Madrid: supporters
Barcelona: supporters
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:40 am
by Lew Dolby
Aaargh - too late to grab a sceenshot !!
France 24 just had a reporter outside the ground of one of the English clubs. Caption read "Chelsea, Royaume Uni"
Background clearly showed the ground and shop with a ginormous sign readin ARSENAL.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:38 pm
by plodder
lpm wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:54 am
As you will have seen, some top posters on Scrutable are breaking away to form a Super Forum with select European posters. This will enrich us greatly and presumably the wealth will trickle down to the rest of you some how. And don't worry: every Saturday we'll return to post comments to some of you lesser Scrutineers (although maybe with a second XI as obviously we'll want to keep our best posts for the proper forum).
Here's the ownership/control, in rough order of corruption levels:
Chelsea: Russian fossil fuel oligarchy
Man City: Abu Dhabi fossil fuel oligarchy
Inter Milan: Chinese billionaire
Juventus: Agnelli family billionaires
Tottenham: British billionaire tax exiles
Man Utd: American sporting conglomerate
Liverpool: American sporting conglomerate
Arsenal: American sporting conglomerate
AC Milan: American investment fund
Atletico Madrid: Spanish millionaire
Real Madrid: supporters
Barcelona: supporters
I think Real are involved with quite a lot of mutual back scratching with the King of Spain?
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:08 pm
by temptar
Twitter insufferable as a result.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:14 pm
by lpm
Lew Dolby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:40 am
Aaargh - too late to grab a sceenshot !!
France 24 just had a reporter outside the ground of one of the English clubs. Caption read "Chelsea, Royaume Uni"
Background clearly showed the ground and shop with a ginormous sign readin ARSENAL.
Does it matter?
It's now just the same content in different packaging. Who cares if it's red not blue.
Football will be like car brands: Skoda and Seat and VW and Audi and Porsche all have shared frames and engines, they are just built a bit different with different branding. They aren't genuinely acting in competition. The football brands will find their niches and won't need to compete with each other.
The France 24 error is nothing more than seeing a Skoda SUV and mistakenly calling it a Seat SUV, but actually the only real difference was the badge on the front.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:33 pm
by dyqik
plodder wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:38 pm
I think Real are involved with quite a lot of mutual back scratching with the King of Spain?
I hadn't realized that Ashley Giles had moved over to soccer from cricket.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:59 pm
by noggins
Thats a very cynical attitude lpm. The modern football consumer has significant brand loyalty and will only consider switching after at least two to three disappointing seasons. With such bitterness you probably follow the Evertons or some other minor league outfit.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 pm
by Gfamily
I'm interested* in the general question of whether this is something that the government should have any role in allowing or preventing.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... eague-plan
* not particularly because it involves football, more on the principles of government and whether this represents over-reach.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:42 pm
by Gfamily
noggins wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:59 pm
With such bitterness you probably follow the Evertons or some other minor league outfit.
Everton has a merchandise outlet in the Liverpool One shopping centre in the centre of the city - they've called their shop "Everton Two" as the overall address is amusing.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:24 pm
by tom p
I'm pretty sure that this is just a shot across the bows of UEFA, to ensure they go ahead with their planned stupid ruining of the champions league to get more money for poorly-run famous clubs like Juventus, and don't back down in the face of all sense.
Allegedly serious & well-developed plans for a european superleague have been released twice before, each time just as UEFA were discussing changes to the European cup (and then champions league) format.
I think it's fair to say that
this is not a song played often in UEFA's HQ, even though it clearly should be (though I suspect that the new boss, who is not entirely dissimilar to the old boss, would disapprove)
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:22 pm
by dyqik
Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 pm
I'm interested* in the general question of whether this is something that the government should have any role in allowing or preventing.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... eague-plan
* not particularly because it involves football, more on the principles of government and whether this represents over-reach.
Well, post-Brexit there's certainly some work permitting and taxation related issues to deal with...
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:40 pm
by TopBadger
Gfamily wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 pm
I'm interested* in the general question of whether this is something that the government should have any role in allowing or preventing.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... eague-plan
* not particularly because it involves football, more on the principles of government and whether this represents over-reach.
If it has broad appeal its unlikely to be seen as over-reach. It's only unpopular stuff that gets slapped down as over-reach.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:12 pm
by shpalman
I haven't checked if fans of any of the clubs involved are still referring to their preferred club as "we" in all this.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:24 pm
by TimW
One thing you can guarantee is that Spurs will never win it.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:25 pm
by Sciolus
Football is a dollar's way of making another dollar.
(I always assumed that was a well-known idiom, but Gurgle suggests not. I got it from Nick Lowe's description of movies in Interzone, circa 1990.)
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:10 pm
by dyqik
Sciolus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:25 pm
Football is a dollar's way of making another dollar.
(I always assumed that was a well-known idiom, but Gurgle suggests not. I got it from Nick Lowe's description of movies in Interzone, circa 1990.)
Generally a dollar can't make another dollar. You need to start with a few million to make thousands, and a billion to make a billion. Basically, you need to start with enough to carve out exceptions to tax laws and to scare relevant authorities and regulators with your legal team.
The billion version is the version of the idiom I know.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:57 am
by tom p
Sciolus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:25 pm
Football is a dollar's way of making another dollar.
(I always assumed that was a well-known idiom, but Gurgle suggests not. I got it from Nick Lowe's description of movies in Interzone, circa 1990.)
Football is a loss-making enterprise.
It's only profitable for agents, top players & scum like the Glazers who use financial shenanigans to gut one of the only profitable clubs.
for everyone else, it's a pound's way to lose a pound (or dollar, euro, peso, etc)
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:21 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
tom p wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:57 am
Sciolus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:25 pm
Football is a dollar's way of making another dollar.
(I always assumed that was a well-known idiom, but Gurgle suggests not. I got it from Nick Lowe's description of movies in Interzone, circa 1990.)
Football is a loss-making enterprise.
It's only profitable for agents, top players & scum like the Glazers who use financial shenanigans to gut one of the only profitable clubs.
for everyone else, it's a pound's way to lose a pound (or dollar, euro, peso, etc)
Indeed, whilst legal and apparently not corrupt (though it has an air of it), the fact that the Glazers were able to get finance to buy Manchester United's shares
using the club's assets which they didn't yet own as security is f.cking insane and should've been illegal*.
*I may have portions of this wrong but that was my understanding at the time
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:07 pm
by tom p
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:21 pm
tom p wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:57 am
Sciolus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:25 pm
Football is a dollar's way of making another dollar.
(I always assumed that was a well-known idiom, but Gurgle suggests not. I got it from Nick Lowe's description of movies in Interzone, circa 1990.)
Football is a loss-making enterprise.
It's only profitable for agents, top players & scum like the Glazers who use financial shenanigans to gut one of the only profitable clubs.
for everyone else, it's a pound's way to lose a pound (or dollar, euro, peso, etc)
Indeed, whilst legal and apparently not corrupt (though it has an air of it), the fact that the Glazers were able to get finance to buy Manchester United's shares
using the club's assets which they didn't yet own as security is f.cking insane and should've been illegal*.
*I may have portions of this wrong but that was my understanding at the time
No, you have it right. Both factually and morally.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:50 pm
by noggins
No no no
Its tough f.cking sh.t for floating on the stock market in the first place.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:52 pm
by JQH
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:21 pm
tom p wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:57 am
Sciolus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:25 pm
Football is a dollar's way of making another dollar.
(I always assumed that was a well-known idiom, but Gurgle suggests not. I got it from Nick Lowe's description of movies in Interzone, circa 1990.)
Football is a loss-making enterprise.
It's only profitable for agents, top players & scum like the Glazers who use financial shenanigans to gut one of the only profitable clubs.
for everyone else, it's a pound's way to lose a pound (or dollar, euro, peso, etc)
Indeed, whilst legal and apparently not corrupt (though it has an air of it), the fact that the Glazers were able to get finance to buy Manchester United's shares
using the club's assets which they didn't yet own as security is f.cking insane and should've been illegal*.
*I may have portions of this wrong but that was my understanding at the time
I got a loan to buy my flat by putting up the flat I didn't yet own as security for the loan. I'm not sure you could criminalise the Glazers' actions without abolishing mortgages.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:55 pm
by dyqik
JQH wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:52 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:21 pm
Indeed, whilst legal and apparently not corrupt (though it has an air of it), the fact that the Glazers were able to get finance to buy Manchester United's shares
using the club's assets which they didn't yet own as security is f.cking insane and should've been illegal*.
*I may have portions of this wrong but that was my understanding at the time
I got a loan to buy my flat by putting up the flat I didn't yet own as security for the loan. I'm not sure you could criminalise the Glazers' actions without abolishing mortgages.
In practice, it's fairly easy to avoid that problem, as real estate has a very different legal status to a publicly traded corporation.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:08 pm
by Trinucleus
Many years ago, Chesterfield went through an interesting period:
Hello, I'd like to buy your club
Great
Thing is, at the moment my sports empire hasn't got enough cash, can you lend me the money please
No problem
The deal went through, as obviously the Football League confirmed he was a fit and proper person to own a football club
The guy was later sent to prison for fraud
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:41 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Well, it would appear that of the twelve clubs, Chelsea and Man City are the two with the deftest conscience.
Re: New European Super League
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:29 pm
by Trinucleus
El Pollo Diablo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:41 pm
Well, it would appear that of the twelve clubs, Chelsea and Man City are the two with the deftest conscience.
And Chelsea are pulling out because it might affect their community programme.
Bless.