ELECTION TIME!!!

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri May 07, 2021 11:02 am

I'm pretty f.cking depressed at the whole thing to be honest. I can't help but feel that for a lot of younger people, they'd rather complain on facebook or twitter than actually go out and vote. Maybe I'm mistaken or being unfair. The boomers, having secured such a high proportion of national wealth, are voting pretty heavily to keep hold of it and f.ck everyone else.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7057
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Woodchopper » Fri May 07, 2021 11:26 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:38 am
lpm wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 10:11 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:47 am
Phew! Thank goodness Labour got rid of that unelectablebeardy chap and replaced him with a nice sensible middle-of-the-road guy with a perfect Tony-Blair-impression voice. Evidently the whingers who spent years undermining the party were right, and the problems Labour experienced were entirely down to leadership and excessive leftiness. Glad they've got that sorted and charged triumphantly to victory.
The next general election is fundamentally going to be Charlatan vs Man of Integrity.

We all know Charlatan is going to win in England, but the answer isn't to go back to the untrustworthy, petty, self-serving beardy chap or anyone else like him.

Now is the time to double down on straightforwardness, commonsense and a simple central message of traditional economic recovery. We've got to keep faith that England will return to basic decency.
Yes, definitely. The problems facing Labour are way bigger than just the leadership.

Why has the Labour party, and the labour movement more generally, lost relevance for so many working people despite growing inequality, the loss of a social safety net and worsening work conditions? It seems that just as reality is confirming that the left are correct about everything, they're unable to deliver their message in a way ordinary people can grasp.
No time to look up polling data etc, but I expect that for the Tory voters in Hartlepool:
They don't care much about inequality. There have always been rich and poor people and always will. They'd be delighted to be rich if they got lucky, and dislike the suggestion that there is anything wrong with wanting to be rich.

They've worked all their lives and don't see why other people should get handouts. Yes, there are some cases of genuine need, but the biggest problem is all the scroungers.

Yes jobs are important. But these days Labour politicians have never had a proper job. They get degrees, walk into cushy b.llsh.t jobs like lawyer, consultant or researcher, and then use their contacts to get a seat in Parliament. They don't think that anyone from the left has any credibility when they talk about employment because none of them have ever experienced a real job.

And Labour isn't talking enough about things they value, like pride in their country, restricting immigration, stopping crime, and more opportunities for people.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri May 07, 2021 11:43 am

Where is that from, chops?
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by lpm » Fri May 07, 2021 12:00 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 11:26 am
They've worked all their lives and don't see why other people should get handouts. Yes, there are some cases of genuine need, but the biggest problem is all the scroungers.
I call this the "crap job paradox". Alarm-clock Britain, people who drag themselves out of bed to go off to work, are increasingly going to work in crappy insecure tedious jobs with useless management and annoying rules. Which makes them resent even more the scroungers who just take the handouts. Which makes them more eager to vote for the Tory establishment that created the exploitative crap jobs, while the tabloids hammer home how Labour is on the side of the scroungers.

As employment conditions get worse and worse in the post-Brexit race to the bottom, people who suffer under Amazon-style control and zero-hour contracts and the rest will actually be more and more lured to right wing rhetoric.

Plus the ever-present resentment of the immigrants who simultaneously are unemployed on handouts and stealing all the good jobs.

Part of the answer is a version of universal income - e.g. everyone gets universal credit including full time earners, with it tapering away only beyond the minimum wage level. There needs to be a clear reward for going to work everyday at a crap job, a reward that's a highly visible difference to those living on benefits.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri May 07, 2021 12:06 pm

Is the answer the continuation and adaptation of the Labour party as it's been over the last 100 years, or a full reappraisal and reboot of both Labour and the Lib Dems, their purpose, mission and methods? And I don't mean the sort of "sh.t, people aren't listening to Militband/Corbyn/Starmer any more, let's have a leadership reboot" style thing, I mean a full-on, "what is the point of us?" thing.

The problem is, many of the best current solutions are the older solutions. More taxes. More equality. Better public services. And so on. But old things are boring and don't win.

The only potential ray of light for the May 2024 election is that the vaccine bounce dies away, Johnson's laziness and lack of policy shines through, Brexit becomes at best dull & of no concern and at worst deeply damaging to UK prosperity, the economy continues to suffer, and levelling-up utterly fails to happen. Even then the entire thing will probably be Labour's fault because mumble mumble 2007.

But Christ. Ten years of Boris Johnson as PM. Just imagine. What a f.cking joke.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7057
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Woodchopper » Fri May 07, 2021 12:30 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Is the answer the continuation and adaptation of the Labour party as it's been over the last 100 years, or a full reappraisal and reboot of both Labour and the Lib Dems, their purpose, mission and methods? And I don't mean the sort of "sh.t, people aren't listening to Militband/Corbyn/Starmer any more, let's have a leadership reboot" style thing, I mean a full-on, "what is the point of us?" thing.

The problem is, many of the best current solutions are the older solutions. More taxes. More equality. Better public services. And so on. But old things are boring and don't win.
I think that the problem for Labour is that the Tories are doing to them in England what the SNP did in Scotland.

In terms of rhetoric, Johnson is now leading the English nationalist party (though perhaps uniquely among nationalists its mission is independence from the EU rather than from Britain, but it probably wouldn't mind if Britain split up). As in Scotland, nationalism is popular (or at least popular enough that Johnson got a huge majority in England). However, Labour will never be more committed to independence than the SNP in Scotland or more jingoistic than Johnson's Tories in England. Labour's most active members are cosmopolitan remainers and if Starmer tries to strut about flashing union jack boxer shorts they'll leave and join the Lib Dems.

If we assume that English nationalism is here to stay, then Labour are going to have to decide what to do. It could ignore it and try to focus upon traditional left wing issues like providing better public services and reducing poverty. Its unlikely to form an absolute majority again but Labour may be able to stitch together a coalition government with the SNP and Liberals etc. Alternatively, the next leader after Starmer wraps himself in St George's Cross and offers populist English nationalism with left wing characteristics - maybe actually giving the nurses a pay rise.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7057
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Woodchopper » Fri May 07, 2021 12:31 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 11:43 am
Where is that from, chops?
Channeling ....

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by discovolante » Fri May 07, 2021 12:33 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Is the answer the continuation and adaptation of the Labour party as it's been over the last 100 years, or a full reappraisal and reboot of both Labour and the Lib Dems, their purpose, mission and methods? And I don't mean the sort of "sh.t, people aren't listening to Militband/Corbyn/Starmer any more, let's have a leadership reboot" style thing, I mean a full-on, "what is the point of us?" thing.

The problem is, many of the best current solutions are the older solutions. More taxes. More equality. Better public services. And so on. But old things are boring and don't win.

The only potential ray of light for the May 2024 election is that the vaccine bounce dies away, Johnson's laziness and lack of policy shines through, Brexit becomes at best dull & of no concern and at worst deeply damaging to UK prosperity, the economy continues to suffer, and levelling-up utterly fails to happen. Even then the entire thing will probably be Labour's fault because mumble mumble 2007.

But Christ. Ten years of Boris Johnson as PM. Just imagine. What a f.cking joke.
I'm currently 100% convinced that we need to wait for Biden's policy of spending a sh.t ton of money to bear fruit, so UK politics can copy that and shift away from socialism vs capitalism / tax v free market economy to a different type of economic thinking, coupled with a shift in focus towards climate change based 'solutions' that just so happen to incorporate policies that improve people's lives, just transitions, etc. But I also watch too many YouTube videos (well, listen to too many podcasts).
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by discovolante » Fri May 07, 2021 12:47 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:30 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Is the answer the continuation and adaptation of the Labour party as it's been over the last 100 years, or a full reappraisal and reboot of both Labour and the Lib Dems, their purpose, mission and methods? And I don't mean the sort of "sh.t, people aren't listening to Militband/Corbyn/Starmer any more, let's have a leadership reboot" style thing, I mean a full-on, "what is the point of us?" thing.

The problem is, many of the best current solutions are the older solutions. More taxes. More equality. Better public services. And so on. But old things are boring and don't win.
I think that the problem for Labour is that the Tories are doing to them in England what the SNP did in Scotland.

In terms of rhetoric, Johnson is now leading the English nationalist party (though perhaps uniquely among nationalists its mission is independence from the EU rather than from Britain, but it probably wouldn't mind if Britain split up). As in Scotland, nationalism is popular (or at least popular enough that Johnson got a huge majority in England). However, Labour will never be more committed to independence than the SNP in Scotland or more jingoistic than Johnson's Tories in England. Labour's most active members are cosmopolitan remainers and if Starmer tries to strut about flashing union jack boxer shorts they'll leave and join the Lib Dems.

If we assume that English nationalism is here to stay, then Labour are going to have to decide what to do. It could ignore it and try to focus upon traditional left wing issues like providing better public services and reducing poverty. Its unlikely to form an absolute majority again but Labour may be able to stitch together a coalition government with the SNP and Liberals etc. Alternatively, the next leader after Starmer wraps himself in St George's Cross and offers populist English nationalism with left wing characteristics - maybe actually giving the nurses a pay rise.
I think Labour are in a really tough position with Scotland. I mean, they could do with getting back a few seats in Scotland to say the least (although even if they won all of Scotland back it wouldn't be enough), so they need Scotland in that sense, but if they supported independence and independence happened then they would literally lose Scotland altogether. And it's a shame because being more closely politically aligned with the SNP on other issues than the Tories, if they were a bit more successful in Scotland they could provide a more constructive opposition.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by lpm » Fri May 07, 2021 1:26 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:30 pm
If we assume that English nationalism is here to stay, then Labour are going to have to decide what to do.
I think we should indeed assume English nationalism is here to stay, and Labour's problem is it hasn't a clue what to do about that.

It's not a political world where there are Trade Union or business leaders behind the scenes. But I still think the New Labour approach of highly competent leader and highly competent shadow cabinet, plus picking a few general moderate policies from the menu, works in the 2020s.

Modest incompetence like SNP's in Scotland doesn't seem to dent nationalist success. Huge incompetence like Trump's does appear to lead to failure - but only just. Johnson isn't an idiot and I'm sure he can see how Trump missed easy popularist wins, while England awarded Boris the popularist win of the vaccine. Maybe Johnson will get complacent and overdo the Boris character's flag waving and gunboat approach.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Grumble » Fri May 07, 2021 2:20 pm

1) Boris has massive goodwill from the success of the vaccine rollout, and the perceived failure of the EU in the vaccine rollout which bolsters
2) The English are glad to be out of the EU and as long as a large part of the Labour Party have a different view they’ll never vote for them. Doesn’t matter, yet, that Starmer has tried to make it a non-issue, the party membership hasn’t followed him.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
Trinucleus
Catbabel
Posts: 985
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Trinucleus » Fri May 07, 2021 3:55 pm

We've got a Conservative Councillor in Sheffield. Oh my God

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by monkey » Fri May 07, 2021 3:56 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Is the answer the continuation and adaptation of the Labour party as it's been over the last 100 years, or a full reappraisal and reboot of both Labour and the Lib Dems, their purpose, mission and methods? And I don't mean the sort of "sh.t, people aren't listening to Militband/Corbyn/Starmer any more, let's have a leadership reboot" style thing, I mean a full-on, "what is the point of us?" thing.
One of the problems is that Labour are doing that, and fighting about it.

User avatar
discovolante
Stummy Beige
Posts: 4084
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by discovolante » Fri May 07, 2021 3:57 pm

Well, the SNP have taken my constituency off Labour. Only the Scottish Parliament though so it doesn't count. Haven't figured out what impact that might have on the regional vote.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri May 07, 2021 4:18 pm

monkey wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 3:56 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:06 pm
Is the answer the continuation and adaptation of the Labour party as it's been over the last 100 years, or a full reappraisal and reboot of both Labour and the Lib Dems, their purpose, mission and methods? And I don't mean the sort of "sh.t, people aren't listening to Militband/Corbyn/Starmer any more, let's have a leadership reboot" style thing, I mean a full-on, "what is the point of us?" thing.
One of the problems is that Labour are doing that, and fighting about it.
Ha, good point.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Grumble » Fri May 07, 2021 4:23 pm

The main problem is that Starmer has all the charisma and firebrand nature of cardboard.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by lpm » Fri May 07, 2021 5:05 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:23 pm
The main problem is that Starmer has all the charisma and firebrand nature of cardboard.
That sums up why countries are so badly run. People automatically assume charisma and firebrand natures are good in politicans and elect tw.ts.

It's a problem for Starmer but also an opportunity - if in 2024 voters are after boredom and stability after the clown show f.cks up.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by monkey » Fri May 07, 2021 5:24 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:23 pm
The main problem is that Starmer has all the charisma and firebrand nature of cardboard.
Nah, he can be boring and win. The main problem is that he didn't offer an alternative. He seems too scared to mention anything that might alienate someone either in The Party or in the electorate, so ends up saying nothing.
lpm wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:05 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:23 pm
The main problem is that Starmer has all the charisma and firebrand nature of cardboard.
That sums up why countries are so badly run. People automatically assume charisma and firebrand natures are good in politicans and elect tw.ts.

It's a problem for Starmer but also an opportunity - if in 2024 voters are after boredom and stability after the clown show f.cks up.
The Biden plan. But Biden did offer more than just not being Trump.

User avatar
Little waster
After Pie
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Little waster » Fri May 07, 2021 5:35 pm

lpm wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:05 pm
after the clown show f.cks up.
As much as I want this to be true I think by any objective measure the f.ck-up is already here and making no appreciable impact on the Tories poll numbers; the bodies are being piled high by an openly-corrupt chumocracy against the backdrop of double-digit economic contractions, a doubling of the national debt, Northern Ireland in flames and the evaporation of half our trade presided over by a priapic, pathological liar and none of that appears to register at all.

It is hard to see how the prospects of the Tories could be worse in 2024 with the pandemic and Brexit firmly in the rear window of all but the hardcore obsessives* and the UK bumping along with historically-anaemic but still positive economic growth, whatever pre-election giveaways the Chancellor can scrape together and the likes of Rishi as PM.

:|


*of which I'm resigned to being one:-

"Good ol'Boris the Vaccinator!"
"But but 150k dead, £34bn on a track and trace app there is still no trace of, your own gran died FFS! .."
"Move on, he got Brexit done"
"But it isn't done, just look at NI or Gibraltar, trade is down 76% with the EU27, we haven't signed a single new trade deal, the NHS got privatised last month"
"Boring, anyway there is a story in the paper today that Starmer once put mayonnaise on a bacon butty"
"Johnson has literally just shat on a Union Jack on live TV before wiping his arse on the actual Magna Carta and then accidentally bum-texting Putin the real-time location of all our nuclear subs"
"God bless Boris, you lefties never learn"
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7526
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by dyqik » Fri May 07, 2021 6:36 pm

monkey wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:24 pm
lpm wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 5:05 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 4:23 pm
The main problem is that Starmer has all the charisma and firebrand nature of cardboard.
That sums up why countries are so badly run. People automatically assume charisma and firebrand natures are good in politicans and elect tw.ts.

It's a problem for Starmer but also an opportunity - if in 2024 voters are after boredom and stability after the clown show f.cks up.
The Biden plan. But Biden did offer more than just not being Trump.
Most importantly though, what he offered got him the support of the firebrands, while he was running against an opposing firebrand who had been actually blowing up day-to-day stuff that people rely on, like the USPS.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm

Labour are trying to represent two different constituencies - metropolitan progressives, and former-industrial-area workers.

Both groups may be at the bottom of the economic totem pole, but beyond that there's little solidarity or class consciousness: in fact, they hate each other seemingly more than they hate the ruling class. Brexit was almost perfectly calculated to split the left's voter base right in half. They're split on Brexit itself because it reveals all the other ways they don't hang together: career opportunities, level of education, views on immigration, racism, and other social issues, etc. etc..

The right has been playing an absolute blinder at the sort of divide-and-conquer stuff that has kept upper-class British c.nts in power for centuries.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by monkey » Fri May 07, 2021 7:28 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 6:36 pm
Most importantly though, what he offered got him the support of the firebrands, while he was running against an opposing firebrand who had been actually blowing up day-to-day stuff that people rely on, like the USPS.
A year and a bit ago in the leadership election Starmer said he'd be doing that sort of thing. Instead we've had pretty much nothing except for calls for inquiries and being "forensic" at PMQs. That's Not Enough.

I was willing to give him some time, especially with the pandemic and all, but its been a year and under him Labour went into the biggest election day outside of a general with basically nothing to campaign on. Starmer has a tougher job than Biden, but at the moment he's not doing his job at all.

Reading comments he made today he seems to understand this, which is a good sign.

nezumi
Dorkwood
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:43 pm
Location: UK

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by nezumi » Fri May 07, 2021 7:29 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm
Labour are trying to represent two different constituencies - metropolitan progressives, and former-industrial-area workers.

Both groups may be at the bottom of the economic totem pole, but beyond that there's little solidarity or class consciousness: in fact, they hate each other seemingly more than they hate the ruling class. Brexit was almost perfectly calculated to split the left's voter base right in half. They're split on Brexit itself because it reveals all the other ways they don't hang together: career opportunities, level of education, views on immigration, racism, and other social issues, etc. etc..

The right has been playing an absolute blinder at the sort of divide-and-conquer stuff that has kept upper-class British c.nts in power for centuries.
If I were the Labour leader, I'd campaign on a platform of honesty, transparency and integrity. Very. Very. Loudly.
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7057
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Woodchopper » Fri May 07, 2021 7:33 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm
Labour are trying to represent two different constituencies - metropolitan progressives, and former-industrial-area workers.

Both groups may be at the bottom of the economic totem pole, but beyond that there's little solidarity or class consciousness: in fact, they hate each other seemingly more than they hate the ruling class.
I don't think the metropolitan progressives are at the bottom of the economic totem pole. They're typically someone who has a degree and works in an office with regular hours. Certainly they are in a far more precarious position than their parents. But they aren't working zero hours contracts in places like care homes or fast food places.

So not surprising that there isn't much solidarity. Each has different interests and knows it.

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by monkey » Fri May 07, 2021 7:46 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 7:33 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 7:15 pm
Labour are trying to represent two different constituencies - metropolitan progressives, and former-industrial-area workers.

Both groups may be at the bottom of the economic totem pole, but beyond that there's little solidarity or class consciousness: in fact, they hate each other seemingly more than they hate the ruling class.
I don't think the metropolitan progressives are at the bottom of the economic totem pole. They're typically someone who has a degree and works in an office with regular hours. Certainly they are in a far more precarious position than their parents. But they aren't working zero hours contracts in places like care homes or fast food places.

So not surprising that there isn't much solidarity. Each has different interests and knows it.
Pretty sure the fast food and gig workers are likely Labour voters too. It's not as simple as only those two groups.

But there are policies that can unite them. How about Green New Deal stuff? Use it to create jobs where they're needed and make the cities nicer to live in. If Labour need something to focus on, that'd be a goodun.

Post Reply