ELECTION TIME!!!

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discovolante
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ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by discovolante » Wed May 05, 2021 6:01 pm

Who ya voting for?

Given that for once in my life I felt like I had some kind of actual choice to make rather than just 'not the tory', I voted for two different parties, which was exciting. As ever I will no doubt regret my vote, but that's the gamble innit.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Fishnut » Wed May 05, 2021 6:12 pm

I still haven't decided. I've only got PCC elections and I'd dithering between the LibDem and Green candidates, and spoiling my ballot again. I'm still against the role, I don't think it should be political, and I don't really see the point.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by jdc » Wed May 05, 2021 7:03 pm

I put some crosses in not Tory boxes
District council and some mayoral thing

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Sciolus
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Sciolus » Wed May 05, 2021 7:51 pm

Please don't shout, you'll wake people up.

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Squeak » Wed May 05, 2021 11:25 pm

I vote for our complicated system of multi-member electorates with preferential voting.

In our state government election last week, I voted for a jellyfish biologist who is standing on a platform of being an advocate for people with autism, followed by a non-binary florist who wants to smash the system, via a couple more independents, before my vote actually ended up shared by the leader of the Greens and the Labor party's shadow attorney-general who is a friend of a friend.

I got to Send A Message by voting for some rather fabulous fringe candidates who have no hope of getting elected without remotely diluting the impact of my ultimate vote. Which strikes me as a much healthier electoral system than most.

Even if the Conservatives won the ideal election again. But that's just because the majority of my fellow citizens have different priorities to me, not because the system is rubbish.

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Matatouille
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Matatouille » Thu May 06, 2021 6:30 am

Just put a vote (and a proxy for Matatouelle) in for our Labour PCC candidate. I'm also against the role, but I know the L candidate a little and she's a well-hinged sort. I also got a free pencil to take home.

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by bagpuss » Thu May 06, 2021 7:21 am

First ever elections for the Buckinghamshire Unitary County Council Authority or whatever the heck it's called now.

I'm really not used to having this much choice in local elections - we have loads of people standing. There have been times past here when we didn't even have enough non-Tories for me to use all 3 of my votes. This time, as well as the regulation 3 Tories, we have 3 Lib Dems, 2 Labour, 3 Greens, a "Bucks Residents Association", a Freedom Alliance and an Independent. I'm really spoiled for choice and this is the first time there are actually more than 3 people I might want to vote for. A few of them are just a name - no photo or personal statement supplied - so they're not getting any vote. Of the rest, I'm thinking of going for my preferred Lib Dem, the remaining Labour candidate and my preferred Green, although the Independent is a decent bloke with experience on the parish council so I'm not sure - I might swap one for him.

Not that any of it matters - almost certainly the 3 Conservatives will get in, especially with the non-Tory vote being spread across so many other candidates.

I gather there's a PCC election too. I know diddly squat about any of the candidates, not seen any info on any of them, none is local to me (Thames Valley is a bit huge) and I'll probably spoil my ballot paper.


Edit: to remove unnecessary quote and extraneous asterisk

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by science_fox » Thu May 06, 2021 8:20 am

bagpuss wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:21 am
First ever elections for the Buckinghamshire Unitary County Council Authority or whatever the heck it's called now.

I'm really not used to having this much choice in local elections - we have loads of people standing. There have been times past here when we didn't even have enough non-Tories for me to use all 3 of my votes. This time, as well as the regulation 3 Tories, we have 3 Lib Dems, 2 Labour, 3 Greens, a "Bucks Residents Association", a Freedom Alliance and an Independent. I'm really spoiled for choice and this is the first time there are actually more than 3 people I might want to vote for. A few of them are just a name - no photo or personal statement supplied - so they're not getting any vote. Of the rest, I'm thinking of going for my preferred Lib Dem, the remaining Labour candidate and my preferred Green, although the Independent is a decent bloke with experience on the parish council so I'm not sure - I might swap one for him.

Not that any of it matters - almost certainly the 3 Conservatives will get in, especially with the non-Tory vote being spread across so many other candidates.

I gather there's a PCC election too. I know diddly squat about any of the candidates, not seen any info on any of them, none is local to me (Thames Valley is a bit huge) and I'll probably spoil my ballot paper.


Edit: to remove unnecessary quote and extraneous asterisk
It's he other way around here - we got sent a very official guide to the mayor/PCC candidates, most with pictures and statements etc. Absolutely nothing about the local council people although I believe it is also being contested.

If I was in charge of Tory campaigning I'd have saved the gunboats in the channel plan for the Westminster elections, but I guess they're feeling in need of a bit of a boost and have run out of other distractions for the sleeze/corruption issues.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by individualmember » Thu May 06, 2021 8:58 am

I got handed three voting slips, having expected two. Put my mark in two ‘anything but Tory’ boxes for the police commissioner, chose a local independent candidate who is very good on our local FB group (to keep his seat), then there was a pick six list for local local something. Bugger, I hadn’t noticed that when I’d googled who was up for election today. Oh well, no parties mentioned but addresses given for most of them so I voted for the ones who live closest to me. Isn’t democracy wonderful :lol:

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Martin Y
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Martin Y » Thu May 06, 2021 10:08 am

We have the opportunity to vote against the Tory PCC who's going to win anyway and to vote for a friend as a Green county councillor. Not that he'll win, sadly.

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Aitch » Thu May 06, 2021 10:38 am

Well, I voted early for a PCC (not the three ex-coppers, especially the zero-tolerance one) and a councillor (Green; looks a bit of a prat, but the best of a bad lot. And also is the incumbent and the only one likely to beat the Tory).

Also took the opportunity to get a pic of the stained glass in the church hall they were using...
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Our Lady of the Rosary - Detail 2a
by SteveH, on Flickr

...which was not a technically illegal thing to do.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Stephanie » Thu May 06, 2021 12:02 pm

My dad is standing for the county council, although is not confident about winning against the Tory candidate.
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discovolante
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by discovolante » Thu May 06, 2021 12:03 pm

Stephanie wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 12:02 pm
My dad is standing for the county council, although is not confident about winning against the Tory candidate.
Maybe he should marry his campaign manager.

Good luck to him though. I'd vote for him if I could but well, I can't.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by lpm » Thu May 06, 2021 12:26 pm

The LibDems stepped aside here to give the Green candidate a chance of beating the Tory - there was a surprise Green win a couple of years ago.

The police thing is pointless. Put LibDem as the first choice on the grounds he should be vaguely liberal and democratic. Put the incumbent second - he's ex-Conservative independent and has the best chance of beating the actual Tory Fascist. There was a zero-tolerance fascist as well, plus a pointless Labour trade unionist.

It was a pretty miserable experience all round, though. Depression is forecast for tomorrow when we have to look at Johnson's smug face.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by philbo » Thu May 06, 2021 1:26 pm

Aitch wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:38 am
Well, I voted early for a PCC (not the three ex-coppers, especially the zero-tolerance one) and a councillor (Green; looks a bit of a prat, but the best of a bad lot. And also is the incumbent and the only one likely to beat the Tory).
I find myself having little tolerance for people who declare themselves as "zero-tolerance"

I'm resigning myself to voting for candidates who aren't going to win (again - I have yet to vote for a winning candidate in nearly 35 years of elections - I don't count Euro elections because they're a party list system so I'm not voting for a candidate)

Went for the Independent PCC candidate as a point of principle: it's utterly ludicrous to have a "Police and Crime Commissioner" with a party affiliation; however parties are the people with a campaigning base and a default support, so of course candidates with that organization behind them are more likely to win. But I still think it's wrong.

Local council, I split my vote in a three-way indy/green/libdem - not that any of them have a snowball in hell's chance of winning.

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by nezumi » Thu May 06, 2021 1:54 pm

Echoing others, the only thing I've got to vote for is the PCC and I don't think it should be an elected position either.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by wilsontown » Thu May 06, 2021 2:10 pm

I also only had the local PCC position to vote for. Seemed like a lot of effort to just go and spoil the ballot, but it had to be done. Wrote "should not be a political position" on it and went to work.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by JellyandJackson » Thu May 06, 2021 3:07 pm

I’m not keen on the PCC being political either. Sigh. Still, voted Lab and Lib Dem. Other options are Tory, and English Democrats, whom wiki describe as a “Right wing to far right, English nationalist political party” which is nice.

Also voted Labour for the county council.

The people hanging around outside to take your polling number were a local Lib Dem woman and previous parish councillor, who I know a bit and is lovely, and our actual sitting Tory MP. Which was odd. Of all the polling stations in all the constituency, I wonder why she came to ours... (it was also odd because you’re not allowed to talk to them about politics).
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Little waster » Thu May 06, 2021 3:38 pm

JellyandJackson wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 3:07 pm
English Democrats, whom wiki describe as a “Right wing to far right, English nationalist political party” which is nice.
Interestingly* that wasn't how the EDs started off. In their original form in the early '00s they were essentially Eurosceptic Lib Dems who primarily were interested in promoting a devolved English parliament.

At the time I think I commented something along the lines of "I wonder how long before they get taken over by racists and the far right?" Turns out "about a decade" was the answer.






*for very low values of interesting
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by JellyandJackson » Thu May 06, 2021 4:10 pm

That is very interesting, thank you.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by noggins » Thu May 06, 2021 7:04 pm

I voted binface & khan for mayor. On the basis thatll keep the tories out and embarass the shithead joke candidates the most.

And libdem for the locals because everyone in the croydon labour party should be liquidated for counter revolutionary sabotage.

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Fishnut » Thu May 06, 2021 7:08 pm

I ended up voting in the PCC election. I felt grubby doing so, but I realised that a spoilt ballot wouldn't make any difference - someone will get elected so I might as well try and get it to be someone I like. Not that it will be because like others here I've never voted for someone who's won.
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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by bolo » Thu May 06, 2021 8:00 pm

I am a bit surprised at the objections to being allowed to vote for these positions. Is it because people think they should be appointed positions? If so, appointed by whom? Or do people think they should be elected, but without party affiliations?

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by FairySmall » Thu May 06, 2021 8:16 pm

I voted for the Bristol mayor, the West of England "metro mayor" (or whatever it's called), our two local councillors and the PCC. Well actually we postal voted early and it took an entire evening to read up on all the candidates. I felt quite satisfied to have put crosses next to Green, Labour, Lib Dem and independent candidates - I like a bit of variety. I'm even more satisfied that MrFS didn't make a single Tory vote. His family are staunch Tories (his dad was even a County Councillor) and whilst our ultimate views aren't that different he's tended to see things from a more right wing perspective. But perhaps nearly 20 years of my bleeding heart liberal attitude (as my FiL called it) is finally getting through. Or Brexit, our current excuse for a PM and the sheer corruption of the Tory Party has finally got to him. Anyway he has declared "never again". Now that's a cause for celebration!

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Re: ELECTION TIME!!!

Post by Fishnut » Thu May 06, 2021 9:19 pm

bolo wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:00 pm
I am a bit surprised at the objections to being allowed to vote for these positions. Is it because people think they should be appointed positions? If so, appointed by whom? Or do people think they should be elected, but without party affiliations?
I think the Police and Crime Commissioner is a nonsense position that shouldn't really exist. Many of the responsibilities are vague and those that are specific are limited. I don't think the police should be politicised and think that making it an overtly political position is wrong. If it does exist then I'd much prefer it be a normal job where people apply, are interviewed by a panel of people with relevant experience and then the best candidate is selected. By making it political people are more likely to vote based on the party they represent than the qualifications of the candidate.

If you do have it as an elected position then I think there's a lot wrong with the way the election works. The £5k deposit creates a very high entry bar that will exclude a lot of potentially good candidates. The Electoral Reform Society wrote a report after the first elections in 2012 called How not to run an election: The Police & Crime Commissioner Elections [PDF] where they point out that,
Candidates were kept away by huge deposits, unclear eligibility rules, vast electoral districts and high campaign costs [5]... The deposit for the election was set at £5,000; 10 times that required to stand as an MP or elected Mayor. The size of constituencies also created additional sizeable costs. Our survey found that 93% of candidates experienced difficulties associated with campaigning over large electoral districts [p11]... The average PCC electorate was 885,778 and the average PCC area was 3,660km2 (approximately the same size as Essex) [p11] ... Of the three main parties only Labour provided funding for the deposits of all their candidates. Conservative candidates had to raise their own funds, or borrow them from local party associations whereas the Liberal Democrats Federal Executive Committee decided that regional parties could stand candidates if they wished but would receive no financial backing from the central party. The lack of a free mail out and broadcasting subsidies for candidates only added to the problem. [p11]
As far as I can see none of these problems have been dealt with in subsequent elections.

The report also notes that,
Information about candidates and what they stood for was only available on the internet via the website www.choosemypcc.org.uk, meaning voters that couldn’t access the internet had no readily available information on their candidates. [p10]
The first election, in 2012, had a turnout average of 15.1% and a surprisingly high number of independents winning, but this piece points out that the number of independents winning decreased significantly in 2016 when the election was run at the same time as other elections, suggesting that many people are instinctively against it being a politicised position but when it's presented as just another election they vote along party lines,
...the success of independent candidates (12 out of 41) was a surprise to some, given their track record in local elections. This may indicate a certain reluctance among the public to politicise policing, recognising that party affiliated candidates may toe the party line in creating their policing priorities.

However, in 2016, independents only won three seats, all of which were previous incumbents, with most other seats lost to the Conservatives. In 2021, 25 out of the 166 candidates are standing as independents.
This makes me worry it's going to become increasingly political as people just vote for 'their' party without giving it much thought, especially given the lack of information from candidates to help them make an informed decision. And as The Conservation piece points out,
Party affiliation is also important in relation to scrutiny. Police and Crime Panels are responsible for scrutinising the PCCs’ local policing priorities, and they include local councillors, and independent members who are invited onto the panel by the other members. However, if a panel is dominated by members of the same political party as the PCC, they can lean towards support rather than scrutiny.
Given the low turnout, how much of a mandate do the elected PCCs even have? If my maths is right, my PCC won in 2016 with votes from 9% of the electorate (they got 118,547 votes with an electorate of 1,221,594 according to The Electoral Commission). That's hardly a ringing endorsement.

TL:DR: I don't think the position should exist. If it has to exist I don't think it should be an elected position. And if it has to be an elected position the bar to entry and the support given to candidates has to be signficantly increased so we can at least have a chance of an informed electorate.
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