Traffic 'calming' and pollution

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Tessa K
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Tessa K » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:13 am

IvanV wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:46 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:25 pm
One thing that worsens the traffic round my way is the lights. They all stay red for ages, let at most three cars through on green, then back to red. This would make sense if one road at the junction was much busier than the other but the road the lights are on has much more traffic in the rush hour than the road the traffic turns into, causing long tailbacks.

These lights have been altered fairly recently, the flow used to be much more even. I wonder if anyone ever monitors the flow once timers have been set?
But I kind of get the impression it's deliberate: they think that's what you deserve for daring to drive on such backstreets we don't want you on.
Despite their name, TfL often forget about buses and bus routes, many of which are not on main roads for part of the route because they serve people who don't live on main roads. Or they prioritise one main road over another without actually checking who uses them.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm

Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm
Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
A bit churlish

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Gfamily » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:11 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm
Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
I'd guess a lot is due to satnavs not being up to date on which roads are no longer available for cars etc.
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:16 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:11 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm
Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
I'd guess a lot is due to satnavs not being up to date on which roads are no longer available for cars etc.
In my neck of the woods they haven’t even closed any roads to traffic. They’ve just had the temerity to slightly narrow them.
A bit churlish

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EACLucifer
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:16 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:11 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm


Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
I'd guess a lot is due to satnavs not being up to date on which roads are no longer available for cars etc.
In my neck of the woods they haven’t even closed any roads to traffic. They’ve just had the temerity to slightly narrow them.
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:53 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:11 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm
Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
I'd guess a lot is due to satnavs not being up to date on which roads are no longer available for cars etc.
Yeah, my sister has a lot of trouble with ubers and deliveries because they've calmed a lot of the streets near her (elephant and castle). Much nicer walking around there though.
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Grumble
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Grumble » Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:24 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:16 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:11 pm

I'd guess a lot is due to satnavs not being up to date on which roads are no longer available for cars etc.
In my neck of the woods they haven’t even closed any roads to traffic. They’ve just had the temerity to slightly narrow them.
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.
Nah, we’re talking going from a generous lane each way to a standard lane each way. Nothing as radical as traffic calming.
A bit churlish

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by science_fox » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:45 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm
Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
They're pretty rubbish cycle paths though. I'm close to some of the first stretches. The actual first one is ok. The later ones are much worse, random narrowings, abrupt height changes, blocked drains, weird unprotected bits.... the concept is good, but I'd rather have educated drivers, wide roads, a population aware of the difference between perceived risk vs actual risk.
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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:57 pm

Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:24 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:16 pm


In my neck of the woods they haven’t even closed any roads to traffic. They’ve just had the temerity to slightly narrow them.
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.
Nah, we’re talking going from a generous lane each way to a standard lane each way. Nothing as radical as traffic calming.
Yeah. It's something that really does depend on what the exact situation is. A wide single lane achieves very little. In fact about the only thing it does achieve is making it easier to safely pass bicycles, and adding cycle lanes means that's no longer an issue at all. Sounds like a pretty clear cut situation where adding cycle lanes is very sensible.

The situation I was thinking of was two lanes that came down to one for a cycle route that doesn't even get a huge amount of use as there are other cycle routes in the area that pretty much cover the same route, and the road in question is the main way for about a fifth of a city to get to the nearest A&E.

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Grumble » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:35 pm

science_fox wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:45 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:06 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:05 pm
Good thread on network effects in the provision of safer/protected spaces for pedestrians and cyclists: the more you build, the more people will use them.
https://twitter.com/crisortunity/status ... 3632005120
Thanks boaf. We’re starting on this in Manchester with the Bee Network. Cycle paths completed so far have cause all sorts of complaints, as I’m sure you can imagine.
They're pretty rubbish cycle paths though. I'm close to some of the first stretches. The actual first one is ok. The later ones are much worse, random narrowings, abrupt height changes, blocked drains, weird unprotected bits.... the concept is good, but I'd rather have educated drivers, wide roads, a population aware of the difference between perceived risk vs actual risk.
There are some big elevation changes near me, going over tree roots and down again for driveways. That’s the only real criticism I’ve got and it’s not too bad really, just makes you go slow for that section.
A bit churlish

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:36 pm


I've just removed a comment by Tom P which broke the forum rules, and a post which quoted it.

Please don't minimize the concerns of disabled people, let alone suggest they deserve injuries.


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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by tom p » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:20 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:36 pm
I've just removed a comment by Tom P which broke the forum rules, and a post which quoted it.

Please don't minimize the concerns of disabled people, let alone suggest they deserve injuries.
For f.ck's sake. Are you high?
I'm not minimising the concerns of disabled people.
I'm pointing out that most people who whinge about cycle lanes are clarksonite fuckwads & that THEY are the people who deserve fractured clavicles.
Can't you even f.cking read basic English?
Jesus, but you're a joke sometimes.

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by plodder » Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:08 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.
Shame all those cars were in the way of the ambulance (not seeking to trivialise your experience)

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by EACLucifer » Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:27 pm

plodder wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:08 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.
Shame all those cars were in the way of the ambulance (not seeking to trivialise your experience)
It's a major road. What the area needs is proper investment in public transport. That will get a lot more cars off the roads than cycle lanes will - not that cycle lanes in general aren't a good thing to add but they really only work for able bodied people, which counts out older people as well as those with disabilities. Unfortuneately, the government was much more interested in wasting money on stupid proposals to spend yet more money on London than to actually do the work needed in other parts of the country.

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by dyqik » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:35 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm
Grumble wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:16 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:11 pm

I'd guess a lot is due to satnavs not being up to date on which roads are no longer available for cars etc.
In my neck of the woods they haven’t even closed any roads to traffic. They’ve just had the temerity to slightly narrow them.
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.
Not putting cycle lanes in can massively increase your chances of having a broken clavicle and head injury and needing an ambulance to travel along that route. Also speaking from experience here.

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Re: Traffic 'calming' and pollution

Post by Grumble » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:53 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:27 pm
plodder wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:08 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:15 pm
"slightly" narrowing a road from two lanes to one lane can have a pretty big impact if you are the one in the back of the ambulance with the dislocated clavicle and the cars can't get out of the way because the road's been narrowed. Speaking from experience here.
Shame all those cars were in the way of the ambulance (not seeking to trivialise your experience)
It's a major road. What the area needs is proper investment in public transport. That will get a lot more cars off the roads than cycle lanes will - not that cycle lanes in general aren't a good thing to add but they really only work for able bodied people, which counts out older people as well as those with disabilities. Unfortuneately, the government was much more interested in wasting money on stupid proposals to spend yet more money on London than to actually do the work needed in other parts of the country.
Saw an old lady on a tricycle walking her dogs on our new cycle path the other day. Properly designed paths can definitely be accessible
A bit churlish

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