Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

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Fishnut
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Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 am

The thing with bad apples is that if you don't remove them they spoil the whole barrel, something those who like to use the first part of the saying seem to forget.
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by JQH » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:13 am

Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 am
The thing with bad apples is that if you don't remove them they spoil the whole barrel, something those who like to use the first part of the saying seem to forget.
Excellent point.
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:31 am

Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 am
The thing with bad apples is that if you don't remove them they spoil the whole barrel, something those who like to use the first part of the saying seem to forget.
And the analogy is that it is the *barrel* not the *batch*

Which is precisely what happens.

In some US police forces, cops have been fired for not shooting people who are not a threat because it was against the training
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:35 am

Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:56 am

jimbob wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:31 am
Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 am
The thing with bad apples is that if you don't remove them they spoil the whole barrel, something those who like to use the first part of the saying seem to forget.
And the analogy is that it is the *barrel* not the *batch*

Which is precisely what happens.

In some US police forces, cops have been fired for not shooting people who are not a threat because it was against the training
To extend the analogy, I think the problem with the police isn't that there are a few bad apples, it's that the barrel is rotten and it doesn't matter how many good apples go in, they'll all turn bad.

Institutional racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, isn't unique to the police but it is well documented and while there are exceptionally awful officers who 'slip through' (if we're being generous) the problem is that the system is set up to work against minorities and without changing that system everything else is shuffling chairs on the Titanic.
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RE: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:29 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:56 am
jimbob wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:31 am
Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:32 am
The thing with bad apples is that if you don't remove them they spoil the whole barrel, something those who like to use the first part of the saying seem to forget.
And the analogy is that it is the *barrel* not the *batch*

Which is precisely what happens.

In some US police forces, cops have been fired for not shooting people who are not a threat because it was against the training
To extend the analogy, I think the problem with the police isn't that there are a few bad apples, it's that the barrel is rotten and it doesn't matter how many good apples go in, they'll all turn bad.

Institutional racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, isn't unique to the police but it is well documented and while there are exceptionally awful officers who 'slip through' (if we're being generous) the problem is that the system is set up to work against minorities and without changing that system everything else is shuffling chairs on the Titanic.

Indeed that was the point - the mould goes into the wood.

I've started a thread that's related to the institutionally bad culture at the Met.


Cressida Dick, the commissioner of the Metropolitan police, has been personally censured for hampering an inquiry into police corruption in the long-running Daniel Morgan murder case.

The report of an independent panel inquiring into his death in 1987 found that the Met was “institutionally corrupt” in its handling of the case and accused the force of placing concerns about its reputation above properly investigating. It said the Met misled the public and Morgan’s grieving family.

It said the Met delayed handing over vital documents, which then delayed the work of the panel, which was set up in 2013 but is only able to report now, eight years later.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:33 pm

jimbob wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:29 pm

Indeed that was the point - the mould goes into the wood.
My point was more that it's the other way round - good people go bad because the system is set up badly. We need a new system.
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by plodder » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:53 pm

was

lol

They only released the report under duress. The whole Home Office has been rotten for ever.

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Re: Met Police was institutionally corrupt

Post by IvanV » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:03 pm

Which we already knew anyway. Just to make sure of that, BBC recently had a 3-part series on the corruption of the Met and City of London police back then. Really terrible it was. They even managed to scupper the investigation so that only 3 went to prison. The most senior officer fingered for it won an appeal on a technicality and got out of prison after a year. But an awful lot had to leave.

So nothing new to see here. Move on down the street please, keep up the social distancing.

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by tom p » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:38 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:33 pm
jimbob wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:29 pm

Indeed that was the point - the mould goes into the wood.
My point was more that it's the other way round - good people go bad because the system is set up badly. We need a new system.
The mould goes into the wood from the bad apple & then if affects all other apples into the future.
The concept of having a police force isn't inherently bad, ergo the barrel was not made with bad wood. But letting the bad apples remain has made the wood bad and now it needs replacing as it affects even good apples placed therein.

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:11 pm

In a statement, the Metropolitan Police said: "We deeply regret that no-one has been convicted of Daniel's murder"
In a statement, the Metropolitan Police should have said: "We deeply regret that our complicity meant that no-one has been convicted of Daniel's murder"
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:37 pm

I first read about this story a few months ago. It's really quite nuts. Private investigator with an axe in the head. Police cover-up. Where's the little Belgian fella with the tache?
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:56 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:37 pm
I first read about this story a few months ago. It's really quite nuts. Private investigator with an axe in the head. Police cover-up. Where's the little Belgian fella with the tache?
Yes seeing what Tom Watson stated in Parliament - and which seems to have been borne out, it was bizarre and also heavily implicated News of the World
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Re: Met Police was institutionally corrupt

Post by IvanV » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:40 pm

The report actually says "is", not "was". Spokesman from police was on the news not exactly denying it, but minimising to close to nothing.

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:32 pm

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed- ... r-a-decade

And now the Met is going to look into why it
didn't investigte years of claims of abuse by Epstein in the UK
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Re: Met Police was institutionally corrupt

Post by IvanV » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:20 am

The newspaper leading with "Rotten to the core" and "The damning dossier" entirely filling its front page this morning is, to my surprise at least, the Fail. It doesn't find the front page of the (other) tabloids, or even the FT. And just one of several leading stories in the Graun and other broadsheets.

Sometimes our prejudices are not confirmed. Though my prejudice still makes me wonder if they have an ulterior motive for this unexpected plod-bashing. For example, maybe they really don't like Ms Dick for different reasons, but find this a useful stick to beat her with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-57492239

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Gfamily » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:42 am

IvanV wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:20 am
The newspaper leading with "Rotten to the core" and "The damning dossier" entirely filling its front page this morning is, to my surprise at least, the Fail. It doesn't find the front page of the (other) tabloids, or even the FT. And just one of several leading stories in the Graun and other broadsheets.
The Mail was very active in the Stephen Lawrence case in challenging the Met. and calling out the failures of the investigation and legal processes.

So not entirely unprecedented.

ETA - the Mail took an interest because Stephen's father had done some plastering at Paul Dacre's house. On such small connections are things done
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by tom p » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:38 am

Surely the only appropriate response to this news is "no sh.t, Sherlock".



Yes, I know he's a consulting detective & not a police officer, but "No sh.t, Lestrade" isn't a saying

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Re: Met Police was institutionally corrupt

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:26 pm

I've moved posts on police corruption here from the male violence thread

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by plodder » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:35 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:42 am
IvanV wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:20 am
The newspaper leading with "Rotten to the core" and "The damning dossier" entirely filling its front page this morning is, to my surprise at least, the Fail. It doesn't find the front page of the (other) tabloids, or even the FT. And just one of several leading stories in the Graun and other broadsheets.
The Mail was very active in the Stephen Lawrence case in challenging the Met. and calling out the failures of the investigation and legal processes.

So not entirely unprecedented.

ETA - the Mail took an interest because Stephen's father had done some plastering at Paul Dacre's house. On such small connections are things done
The Mail, despite its gruesome opinion columnists, still does loads of investigation and proper journalism as well. They kind of hold their own version of the moral high ground.

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:58 pm

I think they also like to promote the line that everything is terrible and untrustworthy and corrupt (except the Mail themselves, of course). People buy into right-wing shite more if they're afraid and distrustful, so purveyors of right-wing shite need to maximise the number of things their customers fear and distrust.
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by noggins » Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:30 pm

I thought the m**l was using Lawrence as a hammer to attack the pinko legal establishments fondness for thw right to silence and double jeapardy etc

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Boustrophedon » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:22 pm

How would you go about mending the Met? I can't see that you could close it down and start again, you could never fire that many officers, the police unions would never allow it and there would have to be some sort of continuity to allow policing to continue.

Is it a small number of "rotten apples" with the rest being honest cops trying to hold it together or is there a systematic criminality running through the length and breadth of the force?
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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Grumble » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:54 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:22 pm
How would you go about mending the Met? I can't see that you could close it down and start again, you could never fire that many officers, the police unions would never allow it and there would have to be some sort of continuity to allow policing to continue.

Is it a small number of "rotten apples" with the rest being honest cops trying to hold it together or is there a systematic criminality running through the length and breadth of the force?
One of the possible solutions is to have police forces investigated by other police forces, but the independence needs to be real and I’m not sure how you guarantee that.
A bit churlish

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Re: Met Police was (and still is) institutionally corrupt

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:16 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:22 pm
How would you go about mending the Met? I can't see that you could close it down and start again, you could never fire that many officers, the police unions would never allow it and there would have to be some sort of continuity to allow policing to continue.
There was root and branch reform in Northern Ireland.

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