Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

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Stephanie
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Stephanie » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:32 pm

Moved all the HS2 discussion to the most recent of the HS2 threads - here for all the fun viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2154&start=125#p85926
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:36 pm

It looks like Galloway is scraping the barrel in the Batley and Spen campaign.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ion-claims

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by nezumi » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:03 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:36 pm
It looks like Galloway is scraping the barrel in the Batley and Spen campaign.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ion-claims
Twunt.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by plodder » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:14 pm

labour are f.cked there. beginning of the end for starmer, beginning of the beginning for whoever lurches them back to a different form of unpopularity.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by monkey » Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:21 pm

plodder wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:14 pm
labour are f.cked there. beginning of the end for starmer, beginning of the beginning for whoever lurches them back to a different form of unpopularity.
Did Starmer really get started? At least he'd now have a beginning.
nezumi wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:03 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:36 pm
It looks like Galloway is scraping the barrel in the Batley and Spen campaign.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ion-claims
Twunt.
+1

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Brightonian » Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:10 am

WHOOP!!!!!!!

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by JQH » Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:57 am

Thank f.ck for that.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by lpm » Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:42 am

Lucky the Greens didn't field a candidate. Shows it's going to be essential to have a progressive alliance in 2024 - but Labour won't/can't.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:21 am

Don't know much about the Workers party, who seem to have done well despite(?) Galloway. Splitting the left vote nearly led to a Tory win.

I can't see a pathway to beating the Tories without a broad non-Tory alliance. Team up for one election and scrap FPTP. Properly this time.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Martin Y » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:46 am

But you can't have a broad non-Tory alliance because Blair invaded Iraq.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:50 am

Maybe worth a separate thread....

But people calling for a progressive alliance should probably first check that those who vote for parties other than the Tories are actually anti-Tories who also want a Labour Prime Minister and a Labour majority or Labour dominated coalition government.

Its not obvious to me that is the picture of enough voters. Historically, a lot of the Liberal vote came from people who's second choice was the Tories. Labour and the Liberals are unionist parties and so some Welsh and Scottish nationalists may not want to vote for them. Labour and the Liberals are also committed to economic growth, which may be a problem to some Green voters.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by science_fox » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:09 am

monkey wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:21 pm
plodder wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:14 pm
labour are f.cked there. beginning of the end for starmer, beginning of the beginning for whoever lurches them back to a different form of unpopularity.
Did Starmer really get started? At least he'd now have a beginning.
nezumi wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:03 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:36 pm
It looks like Galloway is scraping the barrel in the Batley and Spen campaign.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ion-claims
Twunt.
+1
Twitter quote - everybody who was calling for starmer to resign when he loses this, should now be resigning themselves.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:15 am

That's stupid. Obviously the party leader has more responsibility for election results than people in other positions.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:17 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:50 am
Maybe worth a separate thread....

But people calling for a progressive alliance should probably first check that those who vote for parties other than the Tories are actually anti-Tories who also want a Labour Prime Minister and a Labour majority or Labour dominated coalition government.

Its not obvious to me that is the picture of enough voters. Historically, a lot of the Liberal vote came from people who's second choice was the Tories. Labour and the Liberals are unionist parties and so some Welsh and Scottish nationalists may not want to vote for them. Labour and the Liberals are also committed to economic growth, which may be a problem to some Green voters.
Well if they'd prefer the Tories they can always vote for them instead.

People who want non-Tories seem unlikely to get the result they want without teamwork.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:37 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:17 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:50 am
Maybe worth a separate thread....

But people calling for a progressive alliance should probably first check that those who vote for parties other than the Tories are actually anti-Tories who also want a Labour Prime Minister and a Labour majority or Labour dominated coalition government.

Its not obvious to me that is the picture of enough voters. Historically, a lot of the Liberal vote came from people who's second choice was the Tories. Labour and the Liberals are unionist parties and so some Welsh and Scottish nationalists may not want to vote for them. Labour and the Liberals are also committed to economic growth, which may be a problem to some Green voters.
Well if they'd prefer the Tories they can always vote for them instead.

People who want non-Tories seem unlikely to get the result they want without teamwork.
My point was just that people who vote for non-Tories don't necessarily have anything else in common, and some may prefer a Tory Prime Minister to a Labour Prime Minister.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by lpm » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:45 am

That was certainly true for Corbyn. To work it needs a dull & unadventurous centrist Labour leader.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by headshot » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:46 am

Corbynista Reddit is confused this morning...

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by philbo » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:57 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:21 am
Don't know much about the Workers party, who seem to have done well despite(?) Galloway. Splitting the left vote nearly led to a Tory win.
I don't know whether Galloway split the Left vote, or picked up the type who left Labour in Hartlepool to go to the Conservatives: given his penchant for immigrant-bashing, lowest-common-denominator, dog-whistle nastiness, I'd say there's an argument to be made that he kept the seat Labour.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by headshot » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:00 am

philbo wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:57 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:21 am
Don't know much about the Workers party, who seem to have done well despite(?) Galloway. Splitting the left vote nearly led to a Tory win.
I don't know whether Galloway split the Left vote, or picked up the type who left Labour in Hartlepool to go to the Conservatives: given his penchant for immigrant-bashing, lowest-common-denominator, dog-whistle nastiness, I'd say there's an argument to be made that he kept the seat Labour.
Indeed. He also ran some pretty abhorrent homophobic stuff too, which seem to fall right into the Tories' wheelhouse.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by IvanV » Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:01 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:21 am
Don't know much about the Workers party, who seem to have done well despite(?) Galloway. Splitting the left vote nearly led to a Tory win.
Workers Party of Britain is a Galloway vehicle. He is the leader. Apparently one of 3 parties he leads.

I believe he mainly attracted the Asian vote, as formerly in Bradford and Bethnal Green. I don't understand how he continues to get away with it.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by plodder » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:47 pm

He understands the relevant cultural issues and is vocally anti Israel. Plus he is a weapons grade rhetorician / troll.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by tom p » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:11 pm

plodder wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:47 pm
Plus he is a weapons grade rhetorician / troll.
High praise from a low-rent version

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by monkey » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:47 pm

science_fox wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:09 am
monkey wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:21 pm
plodder wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:14 pm
labour are f.cked there. beginning of the end for starmer, beginning of the beginning for whoever lurches them back to a different form of unpopularity.
Did Starmer really get started? At least he'd now have a beginning.
nezumi wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:03 pm


Twunt.
+1
Twitter quote - everybody who was calling for starmer to resign when he loses this, should now be resigning themselves.
I never called for him to resign. I was only skeptical he cold hold on to his job if Labour lost this seat. Mostly I want him to start telling people what Labour's policies are and how they're going to help people. Labour got lucky with this one, it seems that their get the votes out game was just good enough, but they still need more.

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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by nezumi » Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:02 pm

monkey wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:47 pm


I never called for him to resign. I was only skeptical he cold hold on to his job if Labour lost this seat. Mostly I want him to start telling people what Labour's policies are and how they're going to help people. Labour got lucky with this one, it seems that their get the votes out game was just good enough, but they still need more.
I'd be a natural Starmer-ite as I thought when he first started that he was just what the Labour party needed. He clearly isn't though. What Labour actually need is someone who looks like a normal person who cares about normal people things and lives somewhere outside London, while still being extremely clever, an excellent strategist and with the courage of their convictions. Won't be holding my breath.
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Re: Usual midsession by-election beating, or signs of change?

Post by WFJ » Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:12 pm

nezumi wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:02 pm
What Labour actually need is someone who looks like a normal person who cares about normal people things and lives somewhere outside London, while still being extremely clever, an excellent strategist and with the courage of their convictions. Won't be holding my breath.
It's OK. Andy Burnham has already told us he is willing to come back to parliament so he can become leader and lead Labour to glory.

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