War (getting close anyway)

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Woodchopper
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War (getting close anyway)

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:59 am

A Russian military ship fired warning shots at a British Royal Navy destroyer after it entered Russian waters in the Black Sea, and a Russian jet dropped bombs in its path as a warning, Interfax cited Russia's defence ministry as saying on Wednesday.

The British Ministry of Defence did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The HMS Defender left Russian waters soon after the incident, having ventured as much as 3 kilometres (2 miles) inside, the Russian ministry said, adding that the confrontation took place near Cape Fiolent, a landmark on the coast of Crimea.

Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 in a move condemned by the West which still considers it Ukrainian territory.

"The destroyer had been warned that weapons would be used if it trespasses the border of the Russian Federation. It did not react to the warning," it said.

A Russian bomber dropped four high explosive fragmentation bombs as a warning in the British destroyer's path, according to the Russian ministry.
https://www.reuters.com/world/russian-f ... ium=Social

Britain doesn't recognize the Russian annexation of Crimea. So on those terms it wasn't in Russian territorial waters, but Ukrainian.

No one got hurt but we had better hope no one makes a mistake and f.cks up.

Nero
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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Nero » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:40 pm

The MoD press office are claiming a very different chain of events.

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Woodchopper
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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:52 pm

Nero wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:40 pm
The MoD press office are claiming a very different chain of events.
Yes, they're claiming that the Russians were
undertaking a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided the maritime community with prior-warning of their activity.

No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognise the claim that bombs were dropped in her path.
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQPress/stat ... 13957?s=20

There should be video of whatever happened.

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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by philbo » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:17 pm

So.. Russian gunners give prior warning of their activities, everyone's calm until someone (who could that be, I wonder?) runs to the Russian press to say "our gallant boys have shown the Western Imperialists what stern stuff we're made of" and it all starts to blow up (metaphorically, anyway)?

Allo V Psycho
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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Allo V Psycho » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:54 pm

The Russians have apparently learned how to spoof the ship positioning system AIS, to show NATO warships where they aren't.
https://news.usni.org/2021/06/21/positi ... more-86824

Yes, I know you might ask who to believe, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which HMS Defender would be 2 miles outside Sevastopol Naval base.
Philbo wrote
So.. Russian gunners give prior warning of their activities, everyone's calm until someone (who could that be, I wonder?) runs to the Russian press to say "our gallant boys have shown the Western Imperialists what stern stuff we're made of" and it all starts to blow up (metaphorically, anyway)?
yes, that sounds a possibility.

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Woodchopper
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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:16 pm

A BBC correspondent suggests that it was interesting
Jonathan Beale, Defence Correspondent

I am on board the warship in the Black Sea.

The crew were already at action stations as they approached the southern tip of Russian-occupied Crimea. Weapons systems on board the Royal Navy destroyer had already been loaded.

This would be a deliberate move to make a point to Russia. HMS Defender was going to sail within the 12 mile (19km) limit of Crimea's territorial waters. The captain insisted he was only seeking safe passage thorough an internationally recognised shipping lane.

Two Russian coastguard ships that were shadowing the Royal Navy warship, tried to force it to alter its course. At one stage, one of the Russian vessels closed in to about 100m.

Increasingly hostile warnings were issued over the radio - including one that said "if you don't change course I'll fire". We did hear some firing in the distance but they were believed to be well out of range.

As HMS Defender sailed through the shipping lane it was buzzed by Russian jets. The Captain, Vincent Owen, said the ship detected more than 20 military aircraft nearby. Commander Owen said his mission was confident but non-confrontational.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363

You can hear his report at the link.

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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Martin_B » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:05 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:54 pm
The Russians have apparently learned how to spoof the ship positioning system AIS, to show NATO warships where they aren't.
https://news.usni.org/2021/06/21/positi ... more-86824

Yes, I know you might ask who to believe, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which HMS Defender would be 2 miles outside Sevastopol Naval base.
Philbo wrote
So.. Russian gunners give prior warning of their activities, everyone's calm until someone (who could that be, I wonder?) runs to the Russian press to say "our gallant boys have shown the Western Imperialists what stern stuff we're made of" and it all starts to blow up (metaphorically, anyway)?
yes, that sounds a possibility.
This is the plot of Tomorrow Never Dies, isn't it?
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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by science_fox » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:19 am

Jonathan Beale, Defence Correspondent

I am on board the warship in the Black Sea.
Is this commonplace? Do the RN often have the media aboard? What were our jolly chaps doing in the black sea anyway? Is there anything coming up that we need a bit of patriotism about to remind the plebs who to vote for? (I think they missed the Cheshire Byelection with this, and lost badly, maybe there's another one due?)
[/cynic]
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Trinucleus
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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:02 am

science_fox wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:19 am
Jonathan Beale, Defence Correspondent

I am on board the warship in the Black Sea.
Is this commonplace? Do the RN often have the media aboard? What were our jolly chaps doing in the black sea anyway? Is there anything coming up that we need a bit of patriotism about to remind the plebs who to vote for? (I think they missed the Cheshire Byelection with this, and lost badly, maybe there's another one due?)
[/cynic]
It apparently is commonplace e to invite a range of correspondents on board....

...when we are going to provoke the Russians. Last time we poked a ship into Crimean waters there was press on board.

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Re: War (getting close anyway)

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:34 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:54 pm
The Russians have apparently learned how to spoof the ship positioning system AIS, to show NATO warships where they aren't.
https://news.usni.org/2021/06/21/positi ... more-86824

Yes, I know you might ask who to believe, but I don't think there are any circumstances in which HMS Defender would be 2 miles outside Sevastopol Naval base.
Interesting to know that's a possibility. Looks like it was the Russians this time, but they won't be the only ones with the capability.
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