The new Space Race

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3924
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The new Space Race

Post by dyqik » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:18 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:40 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:21 pm
WFJ wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:51 pm
Beardy flew to 88 km which is not normally considered space, except by early US test pilots. Are his planes not able to reach 100 km, or did they just not bother for this test flight? If they are, it's a bit underwhelming for him to try to fly to space but miss.
The sky is black, he could see the curvature of the earth, and the people inside the vessel experienced weightlessness. That would count as space to most people.
I think most people are choosing whether this was space or not based on whether they dislike Branson or Bezos more.
It's not space in any useful sense until they reach orbit. And there's no reason to exclude Russia and NASA from the race, just because they won it in the 60s.
Last edited by dyqik on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3679
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:19 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:40 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:21 pm
WFJ wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:51 pm
Beardy flew to 88 km which is not normally considered space, except by early US test pilots. Are his planes not able to reach 100 km, or did they just not bother for this test flight? If they are, it's a bit underwhelming for him to try to fly to space but miss.
The sky is black, he could see the curvature of the earth, and the people inside the vessel experienced weightlessness. That would count as space to most people.
I think most people are choosing whether this was space or not based on whether they dislike Branson or Bezos more.
Good point.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Light of Blast
Posts: 6390
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Iceland

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:43 pm

How high did James May go? That looked high enough to please a space tourist, which is the point.

Tourist space could be like a tourist resort - a fudge between experiencing a different culture and convenience.

Eta Googled it - 21 km. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_M ... e_of_Space Going to 88 would be dope.
He has the grace of a swan, the wisdom of an owl, and the eye of an eagle—ladies and gentlemen, this man is for the birds!

User avatar
shpalman
Light of Blast
Posts: 4925
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: The new Space Race

Post by shpalman » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:15 pm

IvanV wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:10 pm
lpm wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:22 am
...
Virgin is intended to be a brand and that's what it is. Obviously it's not as successful as Apple or Dyson. But does well enough. Branson's stunts feed back into the brand, making it "cool", allowing him to license the brand name to companies like Virgin Media or Virgin Money for a couple of hundred million quid a year. The brand is worth a billion or two as a result, which is obviously rather nice to own even if it isn't worth a trillion like Apple.

...The whole point of Virgin is to then sell these ventures on to proper companies to do the actual hard work and rake in the brand fees. Branson & Co don't want the daily boredom of actually running an airline or train franchise or mobile operator or cruise ship....
You are right, it has mostly become that. And his sensible decision to get out of running stuff is why he is rich today. But it wasn't how he started. And Virgin Group still owned 51% of Virgin Atlantic when it went bankrupt last year.

He did eventually realise he should specialise in what he was good at: marketing, innovation, and screwing co-investors. And as far as possible stop running things. But it took a long time to come to that realisation, and for around 30 years he tried to run things. And thought that was how he would make money. He ran Virgin Records and Virgin Atlantic for many years. It was only later he realised the potential of selling his companies on. Or in fact 49% the better to screw his partners. Virgin Records was plainly a distressed sale, and I doubt he would have done it at that time if he could have avoided it. I'm not convinced he initially set up his financial services companies with the intention of selling them on and getting out of it, though later it became that. I'm not convinced that he set up Virgin trains with the intention of bringing in a partner after he had the franchise. He competed against Stagecoach for the West Coast franchise, and it was only after Virgin had been running the trains for over a year that Stagecoach bought into it, because it was not going well. Was that the plan?
Virgin Galactic shares fall after $500m stock sale announcement
molto tricky

User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3924
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The new Space Race

Post by dyqik » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:28 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:43 pm
How high did James May go? That looked high enough to please a space tourist, which is the point.

Tourist space could be like a tourist resort - a fudge between experiencing a different culture and convenience.

Eta Googled it - 21 km. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_M ... e_of_Space Going to 88 would be dope.
The English Electric Lightning could almost intercept U2s at that altitude, and it seems that one Lightning went to 28 km (mentioned because of having seen Brian Cox taken for ride in one). The absolute air-breathing aircraft altitude record is a bit under 38 km, in a MIG-25.

SpaceShipOne went to 115 km, if we're keeping score of private efforts.

And Helios went to 29.5 km (unmanned) under solar power.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3679
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:06 am

A philosopher tweets:
To witness rich boys using space travel for touristic amusement shows how much the modernist project of limitless expansion has come to a clownish end. Time to land. Don’t repeat history by farce; dream again, but interesting dreams.

noggins
Clardic Fug
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by noggins » Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:24 am


User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3924
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The new Space Race

Post by dyqik » Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:41 pm

noggins wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:24 am
why explore space?
I'm struggling to see the relevance of that question to this thread.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3679
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:26 am

I'm wondering, if Branson and Bezos were to sell up and withdraw all their money as 100 dollar bills, and then build a huge pyramid using the cash, would the massive pyramid be tall enough to reach space?

Inspired by this classic from the 80s:
Orbiting Cash Shield.jpg
Orbiting Cash Shield.jpg (103.02 KiB) Viewed 386 times

Pishwish
Buzzberry
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:43 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Pishwish » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:11 am

WFJ wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:51 pm
Beardy flew to 88 km which is not normally considered space, except by early US test pilots. Are his planes not able to reach 100 km, or did they just not bother for this test flight? If they are, it's a bit underwhelming for him to try to fly to space but miss.
I haven't seen it stated explicitly, but the wiki indicates that the original plan was for SS2 to reach 100 km (as SS1 did to win the X-prize). The early tests seemed to show underperformance and they switched to a new solid fuel in the hybrid engine. Unfortunately the first test flight of the new engine was the flight that was destroyed (by pilot error) and for some reason they switched back to the old fuel. Who knows if SS3 will have improved performance?

User avatar
Gfamily
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2741
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Gfamily » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:14 pm

I didn't really have a view on Richard Branson's recent flight*; but I am delighted that (all being well) Wally Funk will be finally travelling into space tomorrow. One of the so called 'Mercury 13' of women who were taken through the same astronaut testing as the male 'Mercury 7' test pilots; she passed, of course, but all the women were denied the opportunity to fly.
Finally, she's getting the chance to do what she was so obviously capable of doing 60 odd years ago.
The BBC journalist Sue Nelson wrote an amazing bio called 'Wally Funk's Race for Space', well worth a read.
Anyhow, she's lifting off at 2pm BST tomorrow. I'm assuming the Blue Origin lift off will be streamed.

* actually, I did - obviously, he's a rich c.nt; but given my delight that Wally is making her trip of a lifetime, it would be genuinely hypocritical to whinge at Branson doing the same.
I hadn't really appreciated this until starting thinking about this .
Knowing what to think about things is tricky, isn't it.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

bagpuss
Catbabel
Posts: 893
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:10 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by bagpuss » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:46 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:21 pm
WFJ wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:51 pm
Beardy flew to 88 km which is not normally considered space, except by early US test pilots. Are his planes not able to reach 100 km, or did they just not bother for this test flight? If they are, it's a bit underwhelming for him to try to fly to space but miss.
The sky is black, he could see the curvature of the earth, and the people inside the vessel experienced weightlessness. That would count as space to most people.
Meh, I got 2 out of 3 of those on Concorde. And that definitely wasn't space.

User avatar
lpm
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3273
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by lpm » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:25 pm

Not exactly poetry. The "astronauts" on this one just went woo hoo the whole time, except when Bezos said the immortal line "Happy, happy, happy."
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

User avatar
lpm
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3273
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by lpm » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:38 pm

I like the way they play dress up. Astronaut costumes when they could just wear jeans and a t-shirt.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

insignificant
Stargoon
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: Coventry

Re: The new Space Race

Post by insignificant » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:59 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:38 pm
I like the way they play dress up. Astronaut costumes when they could just wear jeans and a t-shirt.
There's still a fire risk from the capsule's escape booster, so wearing (nomex) flight suits is sensible

Still don't care though

tom p
Dorkwood
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: The new Space Race

Post by tom p » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:29 pm

insignificant wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:59 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:38 pm
I like the way they play dress up. Astronaut costumes when they could just wear jeans and a t-shirt.
There's still a fire risk from the capsule's escape booster, so wearing (nomex) flight suits is sensible

Still don't care though
also, if you don't wear an astronaut costume, how will people know you're being an astronaut?

User avatar
lpm
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3273
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by lpm » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:49 pm

I particularly enjoy seeing they had a mission patch, like it was a proper mission. Got to have a patch if you're an astronaut, the costume looks weird without one.
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

User avatar
Trinucleus
Fuzzable
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Trinucleus » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 pm

How long will it take all the electric Amazon Vans to compensate for the CO2 released?

WFJ
Stargoon
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:54 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by WFJ » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:04 pm

I was going to post a picture of the rocket's launch, but I couldn't decide whether to put it here or in the big spunking cock thread.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3679
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:44 pm

bagpuss wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:46 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:21 pm
WFJ wrote:
Sun Jul 11, 2021 4:51 pm
Beardy flew to 88 km which is not normally considered space, except by early US test pilots. Are his planes not able to reach 100 km, or did they just not bother for this test flight? If they are, it's a bit underwhelming for him to try to fly to space but miss.
The sky is black, he could see the curvature of the earth, and the people inside the vessel experienced weightlessness. That would count as space to most people.
Meh, I got 2 out of 3 of those on Concorde. And that definitely wasn't space.
Yea but the Meatloaf threshold doesn’t count with space travel.

User avatar
Gfamily
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2741
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:01 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:57 pm
How long will it take all the electric Amazon Vans to compensate for the CO2 released?
It's a LH2/LOX fuelled rocket, so it could be low carbon, though it probably isn't.

I have read that 'the Virgin Galactic flight has a similar carbon footprint to two transatlantic business class flights' I assume that'a on a per passenger basis otherwise they would be hailing it as the greenest thing since sliced umm, avocado?
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3679
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:17 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:14 pm
I didn't really have a view on Richard Branson's recent flight*; but I am delighted that (all being well) Wally Funk will be finally travelling into space tomorrow. One of the so called 'Mercury 13' of women who were taken through the same astronaut testing as the male 'Mercury 7' test pilots; she passed, of course, but all the women were denied the opportunity to fly.
Finally, she's getting the chance to do what she was so obviously capable of doing 60 odd years ago.
The BBC journalist Sue Nelson wrote an amazing bio called 'Wally Funk's Race for Space', well worth a read.
Anyhow, she's lifting off at 2pm BST tomorrow. I'm assuming the Blue Origin lift off will be streamed.
The series For All Mankind imagines an alternate history in which the Mercury 13 got to go to space after all. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7772588/

It’s recommended for anyone who wants some good clean fun sci-fi.

User avatar
Martin_B
Catbabel
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Martin_B » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:05 am

lpm wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:49 pm
I particularly enjoy seeing they had a mission patch, like it was a proper mission. Got to have a patch if you're an astronaut, the costume looks weird without one.
More like a cub scout badge
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"

User avatar
dyqik
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3924
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The new Space Race

Post by dyqik » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:06 am

Image

User avatar
Woodchopper
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3679
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The new Space Race

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:00 am

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:06 am
Image
And video: https://youtu.be/HV2UoWhV7qs

Post Reply