Putin's Support for Trump

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Nero
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Putin's Support for Trump

Post by Nero » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:20 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... hite-house

Some pretty explosive, if not overly surprising stuff.
Vladimir Putin personally authorised a secret spy agency operation to support a “mentally unstable” Donald Trump in the 2016 US presidential election during a closed session of Russia’s national security council, according to what are assessed to be leaked Kremlin documents.

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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by Chris Preston » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:49 am

If you were wanting to take your competitor out of the game, this is exactly the sort of thing you would do. It worked better than Putin could have hoped, helped by the fact that Trump fawned over autocrats. There was no chance that this would backfire on Putin, by Trump meddling in anywhere Putin was interested in increasing his influence.
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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by Grumble » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:41 pm

Chris Preston wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:49 am
If you were wanting to take your competitor out of the game, this is exactly the sort of thing you would do. It worked better than Putin could have hoped, helped by the fact that Trump fawned over autocrats. There was no chance that this would backfire on Putin, by Trump meddling in anywhere Putin was interested in increasing his influence.
Trump going on about being friends with Russia was a real life “we have always been at war with eastasia” moment for me.
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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm

It's interesting, this "Putin supported Trump to destroy the USA" thing, because Trump also had a huge amount of support from powerful, wealthy US citizens who would presumably prefer the USA not to be destroyed.

Similarly there's a lot of speculation that some of his properties may be owned by Russians, giving them leverage, but a lot of them are definitely owned by Wall Street funds managing capital for the likes of the Kochs.

Do US and Russian oligarchs have similar goals, or did they disagree on the threat Trump posed to the country?
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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:51 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm
It's interesting, this "Putin supported Trump to destroy the USA" thing, because Trump also had a huge amount of support from powerful, wealthy US citizens who would presumably prefer the USA not to be destroyed.

Similarly there's a lot of speculation that some of his properties may be owned by Russians, giving them leverage, but a lot of them are definitely owned by Wall Street funds managing capital for the likes of the Kochs.

Do US and Russian oligarchs have similar goals, or did they disagree on the threat Trump posed to the country?
I see it ast two very different groups who both saw "Trump in power" as the way to achieve their goals. The Russian's couldn't give a flying toss about US oligarchs and the oligarchs wouldn't have gone anywhere near the thought that Trump being pushed by Russia might threaten their position in the US - that would be the government's problem...

One group were focussed on political gains, the other on their own wealth.

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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by lpm » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:22 pm

Image
What ever happened to that Trump guy, you know, the one who was president for a bit?

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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by tom p » Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:18 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm
It's interesting, this "Putin supported Trump to destroy the USA" thing, because Trump also had a huge amount of support from powerful, wealthy US citizens who would presumably prefer the USA not to be destroyed.

Similarly there's a lot of speculation that some of his properties may be owned by Russians, giving them leverage, but a lot of them are definitely owned by Wall Street funds managing capital for the likes of the Kochs.

Do US and Russian oligarchs have similar goals, or did they disagree on the threat Trump posed to the country?
Not necessarily "destroy"; but weaken or damage.
US oligarchs want the US government to be just weak enough to not be able to touch them, while still strong enough to suppress the masses.
Putin wants the US government to be as weak as possible internationally; but he presumably would rather it didn't really become a failed state because of the turmoil that would cause

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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by dyqik » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:23 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:18 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm
It's interesting, this "Putin supported Trump to destroy the USA" thing, because Trump also had a huge amount of support from powerful, wealthy US citizens who would presumably prefer the USA not to be destroyed.

Similarly there's a lot of speculation that some of his properties may be owned by Russians, giving them leverage, but a lot of them are definitely owned by Wall Street funds managing capital for the likes of the Kochs.

Do US and Russian oligarchs have similar goals, or did they disagree on the threat Trump posed to the country?
Not necessarily "destroy"; but weaken or damage.
US oligarchs want the US government to be just weak enough to not be able to touch them, while still strong enough to suppress the masses.
Putin wants the US government to be as weak as possible internationally; but he presumably would rather it didn't really become a failed state because of the turmoil that would cause
And also because the US dollar is the predominant currency, and the US markets are the main place for laundering money for Russian oligarchs that Putin depends on. Instability in the US economy at the "failed state" level would lead to it being harder for Putin to control oligarchs there.

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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:15 am

I'm going to move this discussion to Weighty Matters, as it seems more appropriate there.


Edit: Done.
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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by Chris Preston » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:02 am

tom p wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:18 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:44 pm
It's interesting, this "Putin supported Trump to destroy the USA" thing, because Trump also had a huge amount of support from powerful, wealthy US citizens who would presumably prefer the USA not to be destroyed.

Similarly there's a lot of speculation that some of his properties may be owned by Russians, giving them leverage, but a lot of them are definitely owned by Wall Street funds managing capital for the likes of the Kochs.

Do US and Russian oligarchs have similar goals, or did they disagree on the threat Trump posed to the country?
Not necessarily "destroy"; but weaken or damage.
US oligarchs want the US government to be just weak enough to not be able to touch them, while still strong enough to suppress the masses.
Putin wants the US government to be as weak as possible internationally; but he presumably would rather it didn't really become a failed state because of the turmoil that would cause
The powerful wealthy US citizens didn't come on board with the Trump campaign until quite late. Trump was able to stay in the primary race despite their lack of support, because Trump was using Trump corporation funds to keep going. Once they did come on board, the commentary was all about how Trump would change once he was elected President. Of course all they wanted was tax cuts for the rich and a reduction in regulations, which Trump promised and delivered. Once they had that, most have stayed aloof from Trump.
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Re: Putin's Support for Trump

Post by noggins » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:08 am

You are all missing the big picture. Putin himself is Beijing's Useful Idiot.

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