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Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:53 am
by headshot
We spent the weekend camping with a friend who has just been pinged from the NHS app from a contact she had over the weekend - probably from a pub where we sat in the garden.
Yet we haven’t been pinged.
We spent two hours there, on a table that was spaced out to more than 2m from other tables and only went inside to use the toilets (fully masked). Other than the supermarket, that was the only venue she’s been to.
So, she’s interpreting this as a false ping and not isolating. Which is fair enough I think. (She’s also regularly testing herself)
Something funny’s up with that app if it’s picking up contacts like that.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:53 am
by sTeamTraen
I'm not sure about the logic of this. The whole point of these apps is to alert you to contacts that you might not realise you had.
Now of course sometimes these are false positives (e.g., through the wall to the neighbouring flat), but I doubt if there are many pings due to actual bugs (say, a "contact" who has been 200 miles away the whole time).
If your approach is going to be based on a belief that you can reliably remember every possible contact, I'm not sure what the point of using the app is.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:56 am
by headshot
This person hasn't spent any time indoors for more than 15 minutes with anyone other than her partner, who was sat next to her at the restaurant with us and who hasn't been pinged either.
She works from home, her partner is a farmer working alone, they live in a small village in Gloucestershire - we're the only social/work contacts she's spent more than 15 minutes with in the last two weeks and we were outside camping, and we weren't pinged when we were sat at the same table at the pub.
The logic is that there hasn't been any contact with *anyone* according to the sensitivity settings of the app.
I suppose it could be one of her neighbours...pinged through a wall.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:23 pm
by Herainestold
headshot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:56 am
This person hasn't spent any time indoors for more than 15 minutes with anyone other than her partner, who was sat next to her at the restaurant with us and who hasn't been pinged either.
She works from home, her partner is a farmer working alone, they live in a small village in Gloucestershire - we're the only social/work contacts she's spent more than 15 minutes with in the last two weeks and we were outside camping, and we weren't pinged when we were sat at the same table at the pub.
The logic is that there hasn't been any contact with *anyone* according to the sensitivity settings of the app.
I suppose it could be one of her neighbours...pinged through a wall.
She should get tested.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:01 pm
by headshot
Read my OP.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:39 pm
by OffTheRock
headshot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:56 am
This person hasn't spent any time indoors for more than 15 minutes with anyone other than her partner, who was sat next to her at the restaurant with us and who hasn't been pinged either.
She works from home, her partner is a farmer working alone, they live in a small village in Gloucestershire - we're the only social/work contacts she's spent more than 15 minutes with in the last two weeks and we were outside camping, and we weren't pinged when we were sat at the same table at the pub.
The logic is that there hasn't been any contact with *anyone* according to the sensitivity settings of the app.
I suppose it could be one of her neighbours...pinged through a wall.
Could she have been closer than 2m for less than 15mins, or slightly further away for longer. IIRC the algorithm is a bit more complex than just 15mins and I won’t know whether she’s indoors or outdoors. I think if you go into the settings on the app, it will tell you which day her contact was, so you might be able to narrow where the contact was down a bit further if she can remember exactly where she was and what she did that day.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:41 pm
by Herainestold
headshot wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:01 pm
Read my OP.
Testing herself. She should get a PCR test.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:49 pm
by headshot
She doesn’t meet the qualifying criteria for a PCR test. This from the gov.uk site.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:53 pm
by OffTheRock
She’d count under the first bullet point though, wouldn’t she? The reason she’s been pinged is she’s been in contact with, or the app thinks she’s been in contact with, someone who has tested positive.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:20 pm
by Herainestold
OffTheRock wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:53 pm
She’d count under the first bullet point though, wouldn’t she? The reason she’s been pinged is she’s been in contact with, or the app thinks she’s been in contact with, someone who has tested positive.
One would think. However there is quite a bit of discretion available to the tester.
It just seems to me that a PCR test would be better than isolating, when you aren't even sure about the contact.
I mean if they want you to take the ping seriously.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:16 am
by headshot
OffTheRock wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:39 pm
. I think if you go into the settings on the app, it will tell you which day her contact was, so you might be able to narrow where the contact was down a bit further if she can remember exactly where she was and what she did that day.
The encounter date was the day we went to the pub, the only venue she visited that day, and we were outdoors in a very breezy spot and definitely 2m from other folks.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:29 am
by tenchboy
headshot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:16 am
OffTheRock wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:39 pm
. I think if you go into the settings on the app, it will tell you which day her contact was, so you might be able to narrow where the contact was down a bit further if she can remember exactly where she was and what she did that day.
The encounter date was the day we went to the pub, the only venue she visited that day, and we were outdoors in a very breezy spot and definitely 2m from other folks.
You sighed then, didn't you? I heard you.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm
by bolo
Perhaps an infected person had lost their phone on the ground under your table.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Perhaps she went to the toilet.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:21 pm
by Brightonian
What puts me off going to the pub is people who go to the pub are, I assume, less mindful about spreading the virus, especially after a couple of drinks.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:39 pm
by shpalman
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:29 pm
by headshot
Brightonian wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:21 pm
What puts me off going to the pub is people who go to the pub are, I assume, less mindful about spreading the virus, especially after a couple of drinks.
Ah, this was more of a gastropub restaurant than a pubby pub. It was all very well organised and civilised.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:29 pm
by headshot
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm
Perhaps she went to the toilet.
She did, but not for 15 minutes...
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:05 pm
by jdc
OffTheRock wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:39 pm
Could she have been closer than 2m for less than 15mins, or slightly further away for longer. IIRC the algorithm is a bit more complex than just 15mins and I won’t know whether she’s indoors or outdoors.
This is correct, OTR.
For each encounter, a score is calculated as follows:
Estimated within 1m of the other device: total time spent within 1m
Estimated 1m or beyond from the other device: sum of [total time at each distance / distance squared]
These scores are summed across the interactions someone has had in a single day with the contact who has tested positive. The app does not look at interactions across multiple days as it uses new anonymous IDs every day in order to protect the privacy of users.
Finally, the total score is multiplied by a factor recognising infectiousness (of the individual testing positive) on the day of the encounter.
https://covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:30 pm
by Bird on a Fire
headshot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:29 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:06 pm
Perhaps she went to the toilet.
She did, but not for 15 minutes...
I was wondering if it might be enough to tip the algorithmic scales in favour of notification, compared with other members of the party. Say, a couple of minutes the other side of the cubicle wall from someone who tested positive later, in addition to the lower-level contact the rest of the party experienced from being there.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:08 pm
by shpalman
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:25 am
by OffTheRock
I hadn’t realised it was pinging people 5 days before tests/symptoms. I assumed it was 2 days like T&T. That might explain why it took 5 days to get a ping from a venue check in in a pub the other week. It seems far more likely than somebody becoming symptomatic on the Thursday or Friday and then not getting results until Monday night.
Can’t see there’s much point in updating it now since isolation for contacts is ending in less than 2 weeks though.
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:59 am
by headshot
OffTheRock wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:25 am
Can’t see there’s much point in updating it now since isolation for contacts is ending in less than 2 weeks though.
Only for fully vaccinated people...
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:59 pm
by Sciolus
Because people who can't be arsed to get jabbed are really likely to use and obey the app...
Re: Ping Me Sunshine
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:02 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Sciolus wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:59 pm
Because people who can't be arsed to get jabbed are really likely to use and obey the app...
Is two weeks from now when they'll have finished vaccinating all the 18+ people who want jabs, then? I know my sister's still waiting for her second dose, and won't have full immunity till some days after that.