Thatcher and the environment

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Tessa K
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Thatcher and the environment

Post by Tessa K » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:24 pm

Bojo has said
"Thanks to Margaret Thatcher, who closed so many coal mines across the country, we had a big early start and we're now moving rapidly away from coal altogether."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58117044

Presumably he's relying on people being too young to remember the miners' strike of 1984 or to have swallowed the Party line on it. Thatch's reasons for closing the mines were nothing to do with the environment.

Was Thatcher green? Yes, she made a big speech about the environment but
Two days before she delivered (it), the UK blocked a proposal at a conference in the Netherlands for a 20% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2005. It was Thatcher who insisted that 'nothing can stop the great car economy' and her ministers who announced 'the biggest road-building programme since the Romans'.
and
She later recanted, voicing fears that climate had become a left-wing vehicle
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22069768

Her speech may have kicked off a greater awareness of environmental issues but I'm not buying her as a Green hero(ine).

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jdc
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by jdc » Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:50 pm

Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:24 pm
Thatch's reasons for closing the mines were nothing to do with the environment.
Yeah, I saw someone point out that we didn't stop using coal we just stopped mining so much of our own. Had a quick look and our coal imports doubled from 1980 to 1990 according to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/370 ... oal-trade/ which might slightly undermine the argument that Thatcher was closing mines to address climate change.

I'd also agree that actions speak louder than words - blocking a reduction in CO2 emissions undermines whatever fine words were in that green speech.

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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by monkey » Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:00 pm

jdc wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:50 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:24 pm
Thatch's reasons for closing the mines were nothing to do with the environment.
Yeah, I saw someone point out that we didn't stop using coal we just stopped mining so much of our own. Had a quick look and our coal imports doubled from 1980 to 1990 according to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/370 ... oal-trade/ which might slightly undermine the argument that Thatcher was closing mines to address climate change.

I'd also agree that actions speak louder than words - blocking a reduction in CO2 emissions undermines whatever fine words were in that green speech.
I wouldn't be surprised if coal use was down in the 80s, as part of a longer term trend of moving to other fossil fuels. But your point still stands.

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Trinucleus
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by Trinucleus » Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:46 pm

The remarks won't go down well with the Tory voters of Rotherham

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jdc
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by jdc » Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:56 pm

monkey wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:00 pm
jdc wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:50 pm
Tessa K wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:24 pm
Thatch's reasons for closing the mines were nothing to do with the environment.
Yeah, I saw someone point out that we didn't stop using coal we just stopped mining so much of our own. Had a quick look and our coal imports doubled from 1980 to 1990 according to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/370 ... oal-trade/ which might slightly undermine the argument that Thatcher was closing mines to address climate change.

I'd also agree that actions speak louder than words - blocking a reduction in CO2 emissions undermines whatever fine words were in that green speech.
I wouldn't be surprised if coal use was down in the 80s, as part of a longer term trend of moving to other fossil fuels. But your point still stands.
I've checked and you're right - the UK's reduction in coal production was greater than the increase in coal imports 1980-1990.

https://ourworldindata.org/death-uk-coal has the Death of UK Coal in graphs.

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discovolante
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by discovolante » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:34 pm

I'd understood that story to be a tasteless joke by him on a trip to Glasgow rather than a serious point, have I misunderstood?
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Allo V Psycho
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by Allo V Psycho » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:00 pm

discovolante wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:34 pm
I'd understood that story to be a tasteless joke by him on a trip to Glasgow rather than a serious point, have I misunderstood?
No, you have understood entirely: that on a trip to Scotland to try to bolster the union, he would rather make a stupid, unfunny, counterproductive joke, than say anything sensible about the major disaster facing the planet.

Rather than make a serious point. What a disgraceful buffoon, vote for by many.

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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by monkey » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:19 pm

jdc wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:56 pm
monkey wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:00 pm
jdc wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:50 pm

Yeah, I saw someone point out that we didn't stop using coal we just stopped mining so much of our own. Had a quick look and our coal imports doubled from 1980 to 1990 according to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/370 ... oal-trade/ which might slightly undermine the argument that Thatcher was closing mines to address climate change.

I'd also agree that actions speak louder than words - blocking a reduction in CO2 emissions undermines whatever fine words were in that green speech.
I wouldn't be surprised if coal use was down in the 80s, as part of a longer term trend of moving to other fossil fuels. But your point still stands.
I've checked and you're right - the UK's reduction in coal production was greater than the increase in coal imports 1980-1990.

https://ourworldindata.org/death-uk-coal has the Death of UK Coal in graphs.
That doesn't make how the miners were treated by Thatcher right, mind.

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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by lpm » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:24 pm

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:00 pm
discovolante wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:34 pm
I'd understood that story to be a tasteless joke by him on a trip to Glasgow rather than a serious point, have I misunderstood?
No, you have understood entirely: that on a trip to Scotland to try to bolster the union, he would rather make a stupid, unfunny, counterproductive joke, than say anything sensible about the major disaster facing the planet.

Rather than make a serious point. What a disgraceful buffoon, vote for by many.
It's a joke northern ex-Labour voters like. Even in decaying mining towns. They think "Boris" is great.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

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discovolante
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by discovolante » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:44 pm

He's dead popular in Glasgow yeah.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:47 pm

I really hope Johnson being a ridiculous c.nt doesn't overshadow (media coverage of) Cop26 the way it did G7.

Best for everyone if he just stays well the f.ck away, which ought to appeal to his workshy nature anyway.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

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discovolante
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Re: Thatcher and the environment

Post by discovolante » Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:29 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:47 pm
I really hope Johnson being a ridiculous c.nt doesn't overshadow (media coverage of) Cop26 the way it did G7.

Best for everyone if he just stays well the f.ck away, which ought to appeal to his workshy nature anyway.
I hope so too although fat chance I expect. I don't watch TV news much so in fairness I don't know what I've missed but when I was flicking through channels in a hotel room a couple of days ago there was a bit about him visiting Police Scotland HQ ahead of COP26 (because he is personally going to help fund them ofc). Double the fun, a Johnson photo op and gearing up for plenty of focus on the miscreants protesting outside and how annoying they all are.
To defy the laws of tradition is a crusade only of the brave.

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