Re: Shortages in shops
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:07 pm
Little waster wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:23 pmWell I've had the official verdict on "The Shortages" from LW's local.
It can't because of Brexit because:-
A) James O'Brien said it is.
B) Nick Ferrari has shown lorry drivers now need to know how to use first aid kits.
C) There weren't any shortages in the 50s when the school kids would spend their half terms and summer holidays picking potatoes.
D) Lazy teenagers are insisting on going to University to learn mickey mouse topics like Medicine and Engineering when they could be working in abattoirs.
E) Teachers no longer teach Home Economics because ... Love Island, apparently.
F) Diane Abbot aka "Corbyn's Darkie mate" once fluffed some numbers on the radio.
G) Black people in general. Details TBC.
H) Remain voters lost the vote and just need to move on.
I) Sadiq Khan aka "That Darkie in London" needs three cars to walk his dog.
So it is reassuring that as the facts change peoples opinions change and any suggestion Leave voters weren't sure what they were voting for and are actually a bunch of half-wit racists is just a terrible slur.
Nor is it fair to suggest Leave voters just mindlessly regurgitate any old nonsense they read in the same sad handful of right-wing rags no matter how irrelevant.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58364308Businesses have been told to prioritise hiring UK-based workers rather than relying on labour from abroad to fix a shortage of lorry drivers.
Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng rejected calls from firms to loosen immigration rules, saying it would be a "short-term temporary solution".
Companies should look to those facing an "uncertain future" when the furlough scheme ends next month, he said.
That's in the short run.Tessa K wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:45 amLittle waster wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:23 pmWell I've had the official verdict on "The Shortages" from LW's local.
It can't because of Brexit because:-
A) James O'Brien said it is.
B) Nick Ferrari has shown lorry drivers now need to know how to use first aid kits.
C) There weren't any shortages in the 50s when the school kids would spend their half terms and summer holidays picking potatoes.
D) Lazy teenagers are insisting on going to University to learn mickey mouse topics like Medicine and Engineering when they could be working in abattoirs.
E) Teachers no longer teach Home Economics because ... Love Island, apparently.
F) Diane Abbot aka "Corbyn's Darkie mate" once fluffed some numbers on the radio.
G) Black people in general. Details TBC.
H) Remain voters lost the vote and just need to move on.
I) Sadiq Khan aka "That Darkie in London" needs three cars to walk his dog.
So it is reassuring that as the facts change peoples opinions change and any suggestion Leave voters weren't sure what they were voting for and are actually a bunch of half-wit racists is just a terrible slur.
Nor is it fair to suggest Leave voters just mindlessly regurgitate any old nonsense they read in the same sad handful of right-wing rags no matter how irrelevant.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58364308Businesses have been told to prioritise hiring UK-based workers rather than relying on labour from abroad to fix a shortage of lorry drivers.
Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng rejected calls from firms to loosen immigration rules, saying it would be a "short-term temporary solution".
Companies should look to those facing an "uncertain future" when the furlough scheme ends next month, he said.
This assumes that UK citizens were historically rejected in favour of foreign workers and that there is a big pool of potential drivers champing at the bit to get into HGVs.
The question is, were foreign drivers hired because they were cheaper or because the pool of UK drivers wasn't big enough to fill the need? The same question applies to other areas like construction, hospitality, retail and care homes. It's a long-standing right-wing myth that Brits are slighted in the job market in favour of immigrants.
It's a bit like after the Black Death when labour shortages pushed up wages. Only without the racism.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:07 am
That's in the short run.
The link posted above suggested that driving a lorry is a minimum wage job with poor working conditions and unsocial hours. In the longer term companies could increase the pool of British drivers by offering more money and improving the conditions. That'll take time though and presumably the government is willing to see some supply problems during the time it might take to persuade more British people to train and become drivers.
That strategy could help the situation in specific companies or industries. However, it appears that the current supply problems are due to labour shortages throughout the system (eg in production as well as transport). The big question is whether the UK has enough potential workers to fill all the roles that people have become used to. Its easy to cite the statistics for people who aren't working, but many of those people are unable to start working as drivers, on farms or in abattoirs etc. For example people have family responsibilities and health problems which may rule out working in some jobs.
One outcome could be that labour shortages just shift from one sector to another. That'll be good for workers who see companies bidding for their labour. Though consumers will face higher prices and shortages of some goods and services.
Of course, that price increase won't immediately create new drivers. It might persuade the existing qualified ones to work every hour they're legally allowed to (a slightly higher number now), or persuade a few EU drivers who haven't already left to stick around in racist plague island a little longer.I arrived to work today to discover a £7 per hour pay rise. A 40% increase... almost overnight.
There are no drivers, things are about to get a bit tasty.
Completely unsustainable, of course, so guess what happens to prices next?
All your sh.t comes by lorry. All of it.
People currently employed elsewhere may well be able to finance getting a license. They'll do that in order to get a higher income. Companies will also be able to sponsor people who want to retrain.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:37 pmA lorry driver tweets:Of course, that price increase won't immediately create new drivers. It might persuade the existing qualified ones to work every hour they're legally allowed to (a slightly higher number now), or persuade a few EU drivers who haven't already left to stick around in racist plague island a little longer.I arrived to work today to discover a £7 per hour pay rise. A 40% increase... almost overnight.
There are no drivers, things are about to get a bit tasty.
Completely unsustainable, of course, so guess what happens to prices next?
All your sh.t comes by lorry. All of it.
But will it persuade unemployed Brits to fork out £3k for an HGV licence?
Logistics companies are now offering a £56k salary, up from a historic average of about £33k.
What do we want currently employed people to switch from? As I said on another thread:Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:08 amPeople currently employed elsewhere may well be able to finance getting a license. They'll do that in order to get a higher income. Companies will also be able to sponsor people who want to retrain.
We're getting into a real resource crunch, with a range of essential projects needing people. For a couple of decades we've had casualised workers - zero hours, part time working, sub minimum wage "self employed" like Amazon delivery drivers, humans replacing machines for basic tasks like pouring coffee and washing cars.
Yes, I agree and made a similar point earlier in the thread.lpm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:41 amWhat do we want currently employed people to switch from? As I said on another thread:Woodchopper wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:08 amPeople currently employed elsewhere may well be able to finance getting a license. They'll do that in order to get a higher income. Companies will also be able to sponsor people who want to retrain.
We're getting into a real resource crunch, with a range of essential projects needing people. For a couple of decades we've had casualised workers - zero hours, part time working, sub minimum wage "self employed" like Amazon delivery drivers, humans replacing machines for basic tasks like pouring coffee and washing cars.
That's a good question. The thing about highly trained jobs is at the moment they usually involve getting tertiary education and the student ends up with serious debts. Its a reasonable choice for some people to want to avoid the debt and not get the qualifications.
It isn't sustainable in ecological terms, it never was. If only we still had and expanded upon, the network of little branch lines carrying goods and people that were axed under Beeching, to be replaced by all of us being persuaded that buying a car was the only way to get around.lpm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:02 am
It doesn't feel sustainable. Some of it is casual student labour riding deliveroo bikes and pizza scooters, they'll never switch to lorry driving. But it must be tempting for an Amazon driver, carrying the burden of van costs and getting pennies per parcel, to pack it in and get a long term job. Probably fewer driving hours as well in an HGV. But we'll still expect "free" Amazon deliveries.
Is this question a joke or something?
Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:28 amIt isn't sustainable in ecological terms, it never was. If only we still had and expanded upon, the network of little branch lines carrying goods and people that were axed under Beeching, to be replaced by all of us being persuaded that buying a car was the only way to get around.lpm wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:02 am
It doesn't feel sustainable. Some of it is casual student labour riding deliveroo bikes and pizza scooters, they'll never switch to lorry driving. But it must be tempting for an Amazon driver, carrying the burden of van costs and getting pennies per parcel, to pack it in and get a long term job. Probably fewer driving hours as well in an HGV. But we'll still expect "free" Amazon deliveries.
A business model like Ocado with one van delivering on "The last mile" replacing ten car journeys makes more sense, both ecologically and economically: Small warehouse replace expansive supermarkets with acres of car park.
Electric vans are needed, millions of them.
There is still the distribution to hub problem; getting the goods to local warehouses/supermarkets, from their place of manufacture/importation, without all those little branch lines and shunting yards we are for now reliant on HGVs and their drivers.
We need to pay more for deliveries and offset that against not having to buy a car. We can't have free deliveries and keep our cars.
Not sure if there were 'miilions' of them, but we used to see electric vans doing daily milk deliveries. They seemed to be phased out for some reason ...
You've reminded me of the clink and rattle of the bottles as they drove along. We called them milk floats rather than vans.
It's 'cos they were too well-made.
I still hear a milk float (electrogalactamobile) going round at night, but they’re definitely rare. Now we have electric Transits being made hopefully we’ll have quiet vans as a rule not the exception.tom p wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:51 amIt's 'cos they were too well-made.
The company who made them went bust 'cos they quickly saturated the market with vehicles that didn't need replacing for decades, then when they eventually needed repairs, it became too expensive.
I expect the reduced number of people getting milk from the milkman rather than the supermarket meant deliveries were more spaced apart, making a very slow vehicle less useful, so it was more economical to get a cheap transit when they finally broke down.
According to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_float there were certainly more than one company who made milk floats. Although the industry did seem to be as busy buying each other as actually making vehicles.tom p wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:51 amIt's 'cos they were too well-made.
The company who made them went bust 'cos they quickly saturated the market with vehicles that didn't need replacing for decades, then when they eventually needed repairs, it became too expensive.
I expect the reduced number of people getting milk from the milkman rather than the supermarket meant deliveries were more spaced apart, making a very slow vehicle less useful, so it was more economical to get a cheap transit when they finally broke down.