Theranos: trial of Elizabeth Holmes
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:42 pm
Time article on the upcoming trial of Elizabeth Holmes:
https://time.com/6092115/elizabeth-holmes-trial/
https://time.com/6092115/elizabeth-holmes-trial/
Apparently Amanda Seyfried https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... eth-holmes
Did neither of you follow the link in the first post? It's Jennifer Lawrence now.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:02 pmApparently Amanda Seyfried https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... eth-holmes
Apparently that just didn’t register when I read it which I can only put down to age and tiredness.jaap wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:40 pmDid neither of you follow the link in the first post? It's Jennifer Lawrence now.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:02 pmApparently Amanda Seyfried https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/20 ... eth-holmes
It's been reported that she lowered her voice (possibly with some vocal training) in order sound more authoratitive, just like Margaret Thatcher did. Personally I find her eyes weirder than her voice. In interviews or speeches she seems to open her eyes extra wide and barely blink.Al Capone Junior wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:52 pmok I'm confused, what was up with the super deep voice on Elizabeth Holmes? That just seemed weird. It wasn't always like that, was it? If it was, my apologies, I don't want to mock someone's natural condition, but that does not seem like the natural state of most women, and Holmes is not exactly typical of anything.
The underlying issue here is Silicon Valley/Venture Capital's really weird misogyny and highly parochial culture.jaap wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:24 pmIt's been reported that she lowered her voice (possibly with some vocal training) in order sound more authoratitive, just like Margaret Thatcher did. Personally I find her eyes weirder than her voice. In interviews or speeches she seems to open her eyes extra wide and barely blink.Al Capone Junior wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:52 pmok I'm confused, what was up with the super deep voice on Elizabeth Holmes? That just seemed weird. It wasn't always like that, was it? If it was, my apologies, I don't want to mock someone's natural condition, but that does not seem like the natural state of most women, and Holmes is not exactly typical of anything.
She seems to have worked very hard at her image and persona. The simple black clothes and the slightly unkempt hair were also a conscious part of that, portraying an image of someone who didn't have the time or inclination to look perfect because there are more important things to attend to.
Is the benefit as George Savile proposed: “Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen" - in other words, that the operation of the law is a deterrent?Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:33 amShe will never do time. Her lawyers will sufficiently muddy the waters to sow enough reasonable doubt and much of the evidence in the form of data on the few trials they actually did simply went missing, when Theranos was "dismantled".
The investors have lost their money, they're never getting any of that back, there's none to get back.
She will never work in the industry again, I am not sure any benefit will accrue from the trial.
But you do seem to be calling her a horse thiefAllo V Psycho wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:56 amIs the benefit as George Savile proposed: “Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen" - in other words, that the operation of the law is a deterrent?Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:33 amShe will never do time. Her lawyers will sufficiently muddy the waters to sow enough reasonable doubt and much of the evidence in the form of data on the few trials they actually did simply went missing, when Theranos was "dismantled".
The investors have lost their money, they're never getting any of that back, there's none to get back.
She will never work in the industry again, I am not sure any benefit will accrue from the trial.
(I am not proposing that Holmes be hanged).
And a mantom p wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 1:51 pmBut you do seem to be calling her a horse thiefAllo V Psycho wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:56 amIs the benefit as George Savile proposed: “Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen" - in other words, that the operation of the law is a deterrent?Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:33 amShe will never do time. Her lawyers will sufficiently muddy the waters to sow enough reasonable doubt and much of the evidence in the form of data on the few trials they actually did simply went missing, when Theranos was "dismantled".
The investors have lost their money, they're never getting any of that back, there's none to get back.
She will never work in the industry again, I am not sure any benefit will accrue from the trial.
(I am not proposing that Holmes be hanged).
I think she truly believed this particular sector could be disrupted and she went from there. She then fraudulently made claims about her technology, which was largely non existent, and sold these tests to actual people. She deserves to do time but it will not happen.Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:04 pmI am tempted to think that she did not set out to defraud. I think she truly believed in her vision and that somewhere along the way, she failed to realise that the important part is the seemingly trivial little point of how the thing was supposed to actually work. At some point she pivoted from honest belief to fraud as she tried to rescue her company from failure.
She was working from the top down; start with the big vision, the hype, raise the finance and put the corporate structure in place and the little people will sort out the nitty gritty little details of getting the thing to work.
She modelled herself on Steve Jobs and Apple, but failed to realise that they went from the little details and built up to where Apple is now, not the other way around.
One could be excused for thinking that corporate fraud was in her blood?wiki wrote:Her father, Christian Rasmus Holmes IV, was a vice president at Enron, an energy company that later went bankrupt after an accounting fraud scandal.
I have a brilliant idea for screening for corporate fraud using a simple pinprick test.Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:59 amI think I may have had my mind changed by wiki.
One could be excused for thinking that corporate fraud was in her blood?wiki wrote:Her father, Christian Rasmus Holmes IV, was a vice president at Enron, an energy company that later went bankrupt after an accounting fraud scandal.
She seemed to follow the Sillicon Valley start up myth like paint by numbers, as if that was the important bit, rather than the product (much like Boustrophedon was suggesting). But I'm not sure if you can tell if she was doing this to intentionally deceive people, or whether she actually believed that this was how you did things. Deciding between the two from your computer is just speculation. We might get more information.noggins wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:50 pmAn simple grifter would have cashed out earlier. A fool in too deep would have cracked up by now. No, I think she is one of those self-deceiving bonkers psycopath bullshitters*, like L Ron Hubbard, or [alive people who can sue] They aren't liars - a liar knows the truth - reality is whatever their ego demands in the moment.
(*please enlighten me with the correct term)
Why not just test for pricks?basementer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:08 pmI have a brilliant idea for screening for corporate fraud using a simple pinprick test.Boustrophedon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:59 amI think I may have had my mind changed by wiki.
One could be excused for thinking that corporate fraud was in her blood?wiki wrote:Her father, Christian Rasmus Holmes IV, was a vice president at Enron, an energy company that later went bankrupt after an accounting fraud scandal.
I think you have it - 'self-deceiving bullshitters' is correct. See e.g. discussion of self-deception and b.llsh.t in the below paper:noggins wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:50 pmAn simple grifter would have cashed out earlier. A fool in too deep would have cracked up by now. No, I think she is one of those self-deceiving bonkers psycopath bullshitters*, like L Ron Hubbard, or [alive people who can sue] They aren't liars - a liar knows the truth - reality is whatever their ego demands in the moment.
(*please enlighten me with the correct term)
As well as enhancing one’s image, bullshitting can also help to enhance self-identity. This is because b.llsh.t can enable bullshitters to conjure a kind of ‘self-confidence trick’. This happens when bullshitters mislead themselves into believing their own b.llsh.t. ...
The self-confidence which comes from self-deception can aid resource acquisition. For instance, entrepreneurs are encouraged to ignore their objective chances of failure so they can appear self-confident in their search for resources to support their venture. This self-confidence can make it easier to acquire the resources an entrepreneur needs, but it can also lead to delusional and potentially destructive behaviours