I'm not in the UK and so unable to gauge the public mood other than vicariously through social media, but I'm starting to wonder whether there may soon be a flip from the public underestimating the objective seriousness of the situation to them overestimating it.
When the occasional shortages of stuff on shelves started, they probably won't have been as surprising to many people as they would have been 20 years earlier. People are used to occasional just-in-time failures. Go into any Lidl in Germany after 2pm on a Saturday and you'll see the fresh produce running low.
But ISTM that a combination of continuing shortages, rumours about energy prices and CO2 shortages (who knew that you needed CO2 to slaughter pigs?), and the ongoing crisis in the NHS could, if picked up in the media, turn into panic buying overnight. The tipping point is very pointy, as we saw (everywhere) with toilet paper and pasta in March 2020. At that point, the potential shortages become self-fulfilling.
Has everyone here kept their Brexit stockpile up to date?
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:38 pm
by lpm
In a couple of weeks UC is getting cut by £20 a week. It's good timing. A bunch of people won't be able to afford food, leaving more stocks for the rest of us.
Arguably there are more humane ways to dispatch pigs. But CO2 may still be needed for the cold chain. And the fizzy drinks to help wash it down.
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:12 pm
by Woodchopper
The thing about toilet paper was that it couldn't easily be substituted for something else, and people suddenly needed more than usual as they stopped using the toilet at work or in pubs etc.
Food is a bit different as its easy to substitute one meal for another and people don't suddenly need to buy more of it at the supermarket (possibly the opposite now that restaurants are open).
But Christmas is on its way, and over that season people do want lots more of specific foods. Watch out for aggressive shopping later in the year.
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:48 pm
by Fishnut
I'm rather out of date as my uncle died a decade ago but he was a slaughterman for 50 years and I semi-regularly went to work with him as a kid during school holidays. I even did one week of my GCSE work experience with him which was mostly sorting out paperwork he'd saved up for me (There was a pile of cattle passports at least an inch thick I had to go through and fill in).
Spoilered for those who don't want details about how pigs are slaughtered and processed Spoiler:
It was a small abattoir so things may be different in the large-scale ones but the animals were stunned and then, I think, bolt-gunned. I never inquired about the workings but maybe the gun is powered by compressed gas? I seem to remember some sort of hose connecting it. Pigs were then put into big vat of very hot water with rollers to remove their bristles, before getting cut open. Internal organs except for kidneys were removed and, iirc, discarded. Lungs were/are discarded due to high prevalence of parasites - I remember the meat inspector showing me this tiny dot on one lung which he gently grabbed then pulled to at least 30cm in length, while explaining that something like 90% of pigs have them so it's just not worth searching through to find the uninfected ones. They are weighed then stored in a deep freeze before being sent on to butchers or returned to the smallholder.
I don't remember if the meat inspectors inspect every animal - I know they slaughtered when he wasn't around but also that he regularly came in, so either he inspected everything that was in the freezers too, or just did a subset. I do know that it was hard to get meat inspectors and even a decade ago most of them came from overseas (Portugal seemed to be a popular recruitment source), I guess most British people don't go into veterinary science with the expectation of being surrounded by dead livestock. I wouldn't be surprised if a lack of meat inspectors will cause problems in supply chains, if it hasn't already.
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:52 pm
by dyqik
Spoiler:
The bolt gun is probably just compressed air generated with an on-site compressor.
I think the CO2 is probably for blast chilling, dry ice and as an inert gas for packaging. LN2 is an option for some of it, but needs more robust handling as it's so much colder than dry ice.
The bolt gun is probably just compressed air generated with an on-site compressor.
I think the CO2 is probably for blast chilling, dry ice and as an inert gas for packaging. LN2 is an option for some of it, but needs more robust handling as it's so much colder than dry ice.
(Still talking about slaughter)
Spoiler:
CO2 is is used to stun birds by asphyxiation. Think that's why Bernard Mathews was complaining.
The bolt gun is probably just compressed air generated with an on-site compressor.
I think the CO2 is probably for blast chilling, dry ice and as an inert gas for packaging. LN2 is an option for some of it, but needs more robust handling as it's so much colder than dry ice.
(Still talking about slaughter)
Spoiler:
CO2 is is used to stun birds by asphyxiation. Think that's why Bernard Mathews was complaining.
The bolt gun is probably just compressed air generated with an on-site compressor.
I think the CO2 is probably for blast chilling, dry ice and as an inert gas for packaging. LN2 is an option for some of it, but needs more robust handling as it's so much colder than dry ice.
(Still talking about slaughter)
Spoiler:
CO2 is is used to stun birds by asphyxiation. Think that's why Bernard Mathews was complaining.
Spoiler:
That's a case where nitrogen would be a whole lot less distressing - CO2 causes hyperventilation, while nitrogen doesn't.
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:08 pm
by Bird on a Fire
Nice animals, pigs. About as smart as dogs, with considerable social intelligence.
They get a bit of bad press for being smelly, but at least they aren't producing enough noxious gas to heat the planet by 2.8°C.
This all sounds a bit self-fulfilling. I like to imagine that if I were Tesco I wouldn't want to do anything that might encourage panic buying. I guess the calculation/hope is that it will put pressure on the government to let furrins drive trucks again.
This all sounds a bit self-fulfilling. I like to imagine that if I were Tesco I wouldn't want to do anything that might encourage panic buying. I guess the calculation/hope is that it will put pressure on the government to let furrins drive trucks again.
Perhaps that, or encouraging people to stock up early. Get the turkey in the freezer in October and avoid fighting for one in December.
This all sounds a bit self-fulfilling. I like to imagine that if I were Tesco I wouldn't want to do anything that might encourage panic buying. I guess the calculation/hope is that it will put pressure on the government to let furrins drive trucks again.
Perhaps that, or encouraging people to stock up early. Get the turkey in the freezer in October and avoid fighting for one in December.
This all sounds a bit self-fulfilling. I like to imagine that if I were Tesco I wouldn't want to do anything that might encourage panic buying. I guess the calculation/hope is that it will put pressure on the government to let furrins drive trucks again.
Perhaps that, or encouraging people to stock up early. Get the turkey in the freezer in October and avoid fighting for one in December.
I would have stockpiled the freezer if it weren't for the threat of power-cuts...
My Brexit stockpile is declining. Our Tesco home delivery that was meant to come this week didn't, at all, technical fault at store apparently. The two nearest petrol stations to me are completely out of fuel this morning. Still at least there's shops close enough that I can walk to them to look at the empty shelves, the fuel issue will be a bit of a git for those not near shops/work!
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:15 am
by lpm
It's pretty obvious the more govt ministers say no need to panic buy, the more people panic buy.
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:20 am
by Woodchopper
Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro said on Thursday that British Prime Minister Boris Johnson, whom he met this week in New York, asked him for an "emergency" agreement to supply a food product that is lacking in Britain.
Bolsonaro, speaking on his weekly webcast to supporters, did not name the product, but said he had passed Johnson's request to his agriculture minister, Tereza Cristina.
"He wants an emergency agreement with us to import some kind of food that is lacking in England," he said.
The British Embassy in Brazil disputed Bolsonaro's account, saying that what the Brazilian president said was not its recollection of the facts.
As soon as there's the slightest hint of any disruption to petrol supplies then **** WHUMPPP!!! *** massive queues at petrol stations.
Just heard on the radio that Grant Shapps is considering bringing in the Army to shore up petrol supply deliveries... two thoughts...
a) nothing like having to bring in the Army to boost confidence
b) how big does he think the Army is and how many HGV qualified drivers does he think the Army has?
As soon as there's the slightest hint of any disruption to petrol supplies then **** WHUMPPP!!! *** massive queues at petrol stations.
I am currently sat in a mile long traffic jam due to people queueing for the garage. People are definitely queueing for the garage.
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 pm
by lpm
Yep. A queue for a petrol station blocking the road cost me 4 minutes earlier.
Prophecies are clever in the way they become self-fulfilling. Even without any tanker shortages, people queuing to fill up on the same day will drain the petrol station's tanks, close the station, lead to extra queuing at the next one, causing more people to join the queue...
Re: Public confidence tipping point
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:10 pm
by lpm
Lol. Lorry drivers are queuing for fuel. Soon they might not be able to get fuel. I'm not sure if this makes the impact of not enough lorry drivers better or worse.
Problem with this forum is there's too many escapees sitting in Spain or Italy or US or Australia, with their food and electricity and petrol. Smug bastards. Still, we're the ones with the best rat recipes.
As soon as there's the slightest hint of any disruption to petrol supplies then **** WHUMPPP!!! *** massive queues at petrol stations.
Just heard on the radio that Grant Shapps is considering bringing in the Army to shore up petrol supply deliveries... two thoughts...
a) nothing like having to bring in the Army to boost confidence
b) how big does he think the Army is and how many HGV qualified drivers does he think the Army has?
And how many would be trained / qualified to deliver bulk fuels ??
Lol. Lorry drivers are queuing for fuel. Soon they might not be able to get fuel. I'm not sure if this makes the impact of not enough lorry drivers better or worse.
Problem with this forum is there's too many escapees sitting in Spain or Italy or US or Australia, with their food and electricity and petrol. Smug bastards. Still, we're the ones with the best rat recipes.
Yep.
Haha.
Although I still haven't finished the petrol I bought in Austria a month ago, where it's like €1.33/l.
As soon as there's the slightest hint of any disruption to petrol supplies then **** WHUMPPP!!! *** massive queues at petrol stations.
Just heard on the radio that Grant Shapps is considering bringing in the Army to shore up petrol supply deliveries... two thoughts...
a) nothing like having to bring in the Army to boost confidence
b) how big does he think the Army is and how many HGV qualified drivers does he think the Army has?
And how many would be trained / qualified to deliver bulk fuels ??
Some - tanks run about 3mpg, so the army needs a lot of fuel. Whether that's some on a national scale I've no idea.