Protesting

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Boustrophedon
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Re: Protesting

Post by Boustrophedon » Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:38 pm

Of course the JSO protesters all cycled to Stonehenge from wherever they live?
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Re: Protesting

Post by tenchboy » Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:34 pm

Boustrophedon wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:38 pm
Of course the JSO protesters all cycled to Stonehenge from wherever they live?
On fibre glass bikes presumably as the steel works that makes the tubes for the metal bikes are oil or coal/coke fired.
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Re: Protesting

Post by lpm » Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:49 pm

"Yet you participate in society. Curious."
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Grumble
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Re: Protesting

Post by Grumble » Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:53 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:34 pm
Boustrophedon wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 8:38 pm
Of course the JSO protesters all cycled to Stonehenge from wherever they live?
On fibre glass bikes presumably as the steel works that makes the tubes for the metal bikes are oil or coal/coke fired.
Oil(/fossil fuels) haven’t stopped yet, to be fair to them. There are fossil free steel making methods being developed.
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Re: Protesting

Post by bjn » Fri Jun 21, 2024 8:56 am

lpm wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:49 pm
"Yet you participate in society. Curious."
Double plus good.

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Fishnut
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Re: Protesting

Post by Fishnut » Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:03 pm

I thought this was a good piece,
The stones were touched by thousands of hands before a barrier was installed and still bear the footfall of millions of visitors. They have withstood several interventions by archaeologists, who have hoisted the stones upright and replaced the lintels. In fact, all of the stones painted by Just Stop Oil – 21, 22 and 23 – have been re-erected or consolidated during the 20th century.

This is also not the first time the stones have been vandalised. As well as graffiti carved into some of them, the stones have often been the stage for political protests. The slogan “ban the bomb”, referring to the call for nuclear disarmament, was sprayed across nine stones in 1961. The Stonehenge landscape will survive this protest by Just Stop Oil.

What Stonehenge may not withstand is climate change. The UK is set to experience warmer, wetter winters and hotter, drier summers, as well as an increase in the occurrence and severity of extreme weather which will include high winds and flooding. This will have an impact on the stones and their landscape, exacerbating erosion of the faces of the stones caused by freezing and thawing while much wetter or much drier soil undermines their stability.
...
While Just Stop Oil’s protest at Stonehenge has generated outrage, there is silence over the cumulative and ongoing effects of climate change upon this and other heritage sites. There is little to no public uproar about climate change posing one of the biggest challenges to cultural landscapes, buried archaeology and the built environment.
...
Just Stop Oil’s protest appears to have highlighted a collective fear of losing revered heritage, yet the conversation about it has overlooked the main instigator.
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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:59 am

Just Stop Oil’s protest appears to have highlighted a collective fear of losing revered heritage, yet the conversation about it has overlooked the main instigator.
Which calls into question the effectiveness of the stunt.

I still think the plane one made much more sense whether or not you agreed with it.
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Re: Protesting

Post by Grumble » Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:06 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:59 am
Just Stop Oil’s protest appears to have highlighted a collective fear of losing revered heritage, yet the conversation about it has overlooked the main instigator.
Which calls into question the effectiveness of the stunt.

I still think the plane one made much more sense whether or not you agreed with it.
Fully behind the plane protest. Targeting polluters makes clear sense. I can see that Stonehenge gets headlines, but Taylor Swift’s jet will get headlines as much if not more. Hope they get it next time.
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Re: Protesting

Post by JQH » Sun Jun 23, 2024 9:32 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2024 11:59 am
Just Stop Oil’s protest appears to have highlighted a collective fear of losing revered heritage, yet the conversation about it has overlooked the main instigator.
Which calls into question the effectiveness of the stunt.

I still think the plane one made much more sense whether or not you agreed with it.
Likewise. You can see the logic: Private jets have a particularly high carbon foot print so render them (temporarily) unusable.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

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lpm
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Re: Protesting

Post by lpm » Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:15 am

However Taylor Swift's tour delivers a very high entertainment return per CO2 spent, probably higher than other major events like the Olympics or the football. And her tour realistically can't be done without a private jet due to its dependence on the wellbeing of one individual.

The puritan aspect to environmental activists is probably far more damaging to the cause than the silly JSO stunts. Sitting in the dark for earth hour, ffs. Guilting people about their holiday abroad.
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Fishnut
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Re: Protesting

Post by Fishnut » Sun Jun 23, 2024 10:19 pm

Source
Screenshot 2024-06-23 at 23.19.00.png
Screenshot 2024-06-23 at 23.19.00.png (104.16 KiB) Viewed 780 times
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Sciolus
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Re: Protesting

Post by Sciolus » Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:36 pm

Am I the only one who assumes JSO activists are 20% environmentalist campaigners, 30% police/secret service spies and 50% oil company agents provocateurs?

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:48 pm

Just Stop Oil protestors (including Roger Hallam) sentenced to 4 - 5 years

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-just-sto ... 06528.html
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Re: Protesting

Post by Tristan » Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:53 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:48 pm
Just Stop Oil protestors (including Roger Hallam) sentenced to 4 - 5 years

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-just-sto ... 06528.html
Good

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Re: Protesting

Post by bjn » Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:06 pm

Tristan wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:53 pm
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:48 pm
Just Stop Oil protestors (including Roger Hallam) sentenced to 4 - 5 years

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-just-sto ... 06528.html
Good
Sorry, no. Non violent protesters locked up for 5 years is draconian.

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Re: Protesting

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jul 18, 2024 7:04 pm

bjn wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:06 pm
Tristan wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:53 pm
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:48 pm
Just Stop Oil protestors (including Roger Hallam) sentenced to 4 - 5 years

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-just-sto ... 06528.html
Good
Sorry, no. Non violent protesters locked up for 5 years is draconian.
Bear in mind, they weren't convicted of protesting, they were convicted of "conspiracy to cause a public nuisance" because they were holding a zoom meeting to plan direct actions on the M25. They hadn't even got to the point of non-violently protesting.
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Re: Protesting

Post by IvanV » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:07 pm

When, in France, a union - be it the farmers or the transport workers or the teachers or whoever - holds the country to ransom by causing massive blockages or shutdowns or something, and so may force the government to accede to their particular demand of the moment, which might quite narrowly benefit their particular union interest, we tend to think, we are grateful that kind of thing doesn't happen here. And whilst I am aware of that kind of massive disruption caused by such protest action going on in France, I'm not aware that it goes on in other countries, particularly. Though there might well be quite large societal disagreements in such other countries.

And yet increasingly such disruptive protests have been coming here, whether it was - some while ago - road transport workers complaining petrol is too expensive and largely succeeding in getting their demands met. Or more recently, JSO in effect complaining petrol is too cheap. In fact that contrast rather points out that the problem, even if I should happen to agree more with one view than another.

It's one thing to have your protest walking down the Strand and Whitehall to the Houses of Parliament to shout a lot. You get to say your bit. And another thing when protests cause extensive disruption, and might enforce some kind of a response. Where, as society, should we draw the line, at what protesters can legitimately do? Because there must be a line somewhere.

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Re: Protesting

Post by tenchboy » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:41 pm

bjn wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 6:06 pm
Tristan wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 4:53 pm
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:48 pm
Just Stop Oil protestors (including Roger Hallam) sentenced to 4 - 5 years

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/five-just-sto ... 06528.html
Good
Sorry, no. Non violent protesters locked up for 5 years is draconian.
Sorry, no; blocking the M25, or any motorway, where thousands of cars travelling at 70mph have to suddenly, all one after the other, stop without crashing into the back of the car in front, just to gratify your sense of entitlement, is utterly, utterly selfish. Every person who stopped in time and walked away is living on borrowed time. On a motorway as many cars crash into the back of pre-stationary traffic as are involved in any original accident. Shunt shunt shunt all the way back; it's worse in foggy weather: slam bang dead.
This was the biggest bit of dumb fuckery in a world where dumb fuckery is a cult.
Just imagine what could have happened here if it had gone wrong: multiple crashes all the way back down all three lanes; the police patrols must have been absolutely bricking it for the whole duration. As the tail-back grows longer so the potential crash zone moves further and further back and they have to cope with that, constantly moving backwards to pre-warn oncoming traffic and hope that it stops in time. This is not about protesting, its about being a c.nt. Five years is about right.
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lpm
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Re: Protesting

Post by lpm » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:49 pm

No, none of that applies to the M25.

There is standstill traffic as a routine. Nobody crashes into the back of the queue because there are gantries with variable speed limits every couple of miles. Traffic slows well before the halt as they are trying to smooth the flow.
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Re: Protesting

Post by dyqik » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:51 pm

It's like the people opposed to these protests have zero idea about how the UK actually works, or the stakes involved here.

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Re: Protesting

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:52 pm

I've not been able to find more recent info, but according to this 2017 article, the average speed on the M25 is 25.05 miles per hour. I'd be very surprised if it's got better in recent years.
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Re: Protesting

Post by dyqik » Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:53 pm

IvanV wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:07 pm
When, in France, a union - be it the farmers or the transport workers or the teachers or whoever - holds the country to ransom by causing massive blockages or shutdowns or something, and so may force the government to accede to their particular demand of the moment, which might quite narrowly benefit their particular union interest, we tend to think, we are grateful that kind of thing doesn't happen here. And whilst I am aware of that kind of massive disruption caused by such protest action going on in France, I'm not aware that it goes on in other countries, particularly. Though there might well be quite large societal disagreements in such other countries.
Do we?

I don't. I wonder why the British are incapable of protesting actual injustices.

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Re: Protesting

Post by Fishnut » Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:01 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:53 pm
IvanV wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:07 pm
When, in France, a union - be it the farmers or the transport workers or the teachers or whoever - holds the country to ransom by causing massive blockages or shutdowns or something, and so may force the government to accede to their particular demand of the moment, which might quite narrowly benefit their particular union interest, we tend to think, we are grateful that kind of thing doesn't happen here. And whilst I am aware of that kind of massive disruption caused by such protest action going on in France, I'm not aware that it goes on in other countries, particularly. Though there might well be quite large societal disagreements in such other countries.
Do we?

I don't. I wonder why the British are incapable of protesting actual injustices.
Same

Though the fact that oil companies and civil authorities have managed to get over 1,200 injunctions to prevent protest may have something to do with it.

It's also worth pointing out that the tactics of organisations like Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil, while modelled on their approach, are actually less violent than that of the suffragettes who committed arson, disrupted sporting events and damaged art works and public property in their efforts to get the vote.
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Re: Protesting

Post by Tristan » Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:06 pm

dyqik wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:53 pm
IvanV wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:07 pm
When, in France, a union - be it the farmers or the transport workers or the teachers or whoever - holds the country to ransom by causing massive blockages or shutdowns or something, and so may force the government to accede to their particular demand of the moment, which might quite narrowly benefit their particular union interest, we tend to think, we are grateful that kind of thing doesn't happen here. And whilst I am aware of that kind of massive disruption caused by such protest action going on in France, I'm not aware that it goes on in other countries, particularly. Though there might well be quite large societal disagreements in such other countries.
Do we?

I don't. I wonder why the British are incapable of protesting actual injustices.
So it’s ok because you agree with their aims?

I wonder how all those outraged at the sentencing would react if these were EDL members protesting against immigration in the same way.

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lpm
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Re: Protesting

Post by lpm » Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:09 pm

The EDL does not protest like this. What's the point of irrelevant hypotheticals?
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