Protesting

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Woodchopper
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Re: Protesting

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:23 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:11 am
The exact protest everybody says climate activists should do has happened, in case you missed it:
AMSTERDAM, Nov 5 (Reuters) - Hundreds of environmental activists wearing white overalls stormed an area holding private jets at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport and stopped aircraft from leaving for hours by sitting in front of their wheels on Saturday.

Military police moved in and were seen taking dozens of the protesters away in buses. More than 100 activists were arrested, national broadcaster NOS reported.

The protest was part of a day of demonstrations in and around the air hub organised by Greenpeace and Extinction Rebellion in the build-up to the COP27 climate talks in Egypt.

No delays to commercial flights were reported.
https://www.reuters.com/business/cop/ac ... 022-11-05/
Protestors riding bicycles in front of the private jets.https://twitter.com/thijsniks/status/15 ... AZhgJfricg

Very good.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Protesting

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:42 am

Police doing sterling work arresting journalists at climate protests:

https://twitter.com/richfelgate/status/ ... 7642243072

The Tories' shiny new oppressive legislation in action.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Protesting

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:33 pm

Another one - LBC journalist arrested, held for 5 hours in a cell. Sounds like a deliberate attempt at intimidation.

https://twitter.com/charlotterlynch/sta ... 2945092609
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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:46 pm

Indigo Rumbelow for Just Stop Oil in absolute car crash interview on Sky News. Basically, will be clipped and go viral and can only damage their cause. I don’t know Greta Thunberg but she’s no Greta Thunberg.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Protesting

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:52 am

I mean, birds are literally falling out of the sky.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ern-us-aoe

(That was the clip when I googled her name anyway)
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Re: Protesting

Post by Gfamily » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:21 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:46 pm
Indigo Rumbelow for Just Stop Oil in absolute car crash interview on Sky News. Basically, will be clipped and go viral and can only damage their cause. I don’t know Greta Thunberg but she’s no Greta Thunberg.
If the argument is that "people are discussing your methods and only incidentally mentioning your message - wouldn't it be better if you did f.ck all and then we'd all be really cool with, um what is it again?" then, yes that wouldn't be a problem.

Not mentioning the cause is even more damaging to the cause.
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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Protesting

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:26 am

I mean they're called Just Stop Oil, which means even saying their name helps spread a specific message, unlike many other campaign groups.

And the government, holding the presidency of the climate cop, was going balls deep into fossil extraction. f.cking embarrassing.

If you think a kid with no media training is the issue, you're officially a dipshit.
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Re: Protesting

Post by jdc » Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:22 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:46 pm
Indigo Rumbelow for Just Stop Oil in absolute car crash interview on Sky News. Basically, will be clipped and go viral and can only damage their cause. I don’t know Greta Thunberg but she’s no Greta Thunberg.
Like this: https://twitter.com/andrewdoyle_com/sta ... 5463033857? Or maybe this shorter one: https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1590784641845399552?

She did better than I would have done. Made some good points about the media failing, rights having to be fought for, and that people will die due to climate change; didn't get too flustered by interruptions or disrespectful questions about whether she should grow up. Fair play to her for not backing down when the interviewer was trying to talk over her.

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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:58 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:26 am
I mean they're called Just Stop Oil, which means even saying their name helps spread a specific message, unlike many other campaign groups.

And the government, holding the presidency of the climate cop, was going balls deep into fossil extraction. f.cking embarrassing.

If you think a kid with no media training is the issue, you're officially a dipshit.
Oh for God’s sake. I don’t think a kid with no media training is “the issue” - I just don’t think the interview went very well and I can’t see it changing many minds. I wish you would stop with the f.cking strawmen.
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Re: Protesting

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Nov 11, 2022 10:01 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:58 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:26 am
I mean they're called Just Stop Oil, which means even saying their name helps spread a specific message, unlike many other campaign groups.

And the government, holding the presidency of the climate cop, was going balls deep into fossil extraction. f.cking embarrassing.

If you think a kid with no media training is the issue, you're officially a dipshit.
Oh for God’s sake. I don’t think a kid with no media training is “the issue” - I just don’t think the interview went very well and I can’t see it changing many minds. I wish you would stop with the f.cking strawmen.
If the organisation can't offer better than "a kid with no media training", then perhaps they aren't a very well run organisation?

Mind you, probably better than sending their founder, given his quite disturbing fantasies.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Protesting

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:18 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:58 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:26 am
I mean they're called Just Stop Oil, which means even saying their name helps spread a specific message, unlike many other campaign groups.

And the government, holding the presidency of the climate cop, was going balls deep into fossil extraction. f.cking embarrassing.

If you think a kid with no media training is the issue, you're officially a dipshit.
Oh for God’s sake. I don’t think a kid with no media training is “the issue” - I just don’t think the interview went very well and I can’t see it changing many minds. I wish you would stop with the f.cking strawmen.
Sorry, I must have missed your posts on UK climate policy and somehow just saw the one criticising a young female activist.
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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:49 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:18 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:58 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:26 am
I mean they're called Just Stop Oil, which means even saying their name helps spread a specific message, unlike many other campaign groups.

And the government, holding the presidency of the climate cop, was going balls deep into fossil extraction. f.cking embarrassing.

If you think a kid with no media training is the issue, you're officially a dipshit.
Oh for God’s sake. I don’t think a kid with no media training is “the issue” - I just don’t think the interview went very well and I can’t see it changing many minds. I wish you would stop with the f.cking strawmen.
Sorry, I must have missed your posts on UK climate policy and somehow just saw the one criticising a young female activist.
Oh do f.ck off. I’m tired a lot nowadays so don’t post that much here as I know this is the type of b.llsh.t you tend to get. I didn’t realise I had to post on every subject that was of importance or interest to me so you could make a judgment about what I “really” think.

At least you referred to her more accurately as a young female activist rather than “a kid” this time (which was a somewhat infantilising way to describe a 27 year old). It’s strange that you also seem to have missed my unfavourable comparison to Greta Thunberg - another “young female activist” but never mind.

I don’t think she did a very good job. Others disagree and have given reasons why. I have considered those views. I don’t know if I will change my mind or reconsider but that’s the type of discussion I like on here. I really can’t be arsed to defend myself against strawman b.llsh.t so I tell you what. I’ll f.ck off the thread and leave you to it.

I suppose I should be grateful. It’s not as bad as the time I was accused here (or the old place - I forget) of getting sexually aroused by mass shootings so things are looking up. Happy days.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Protesting

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Nov 11, 2022 12:09 pm

Sorry to pick on you, Stranger Mouse (for real this time) - it just seems that people are constantly looking for reasons to criticise protestors, when the scale of political response to a genuinely terrifying crisis is so pants. It's enormously frustrating.

I've not yet seen a clip shared from the interview, supportively or disparagingly. But I really think the idea that these protestors damage the cause is overwhelmingly over-egged - as well as the evidence on radical flank effects mentioned unthread, the climate crisis is now at a severity that a third of Pakistan has been displaced recently, and stronger action is supported by a large majority of UK voters.

One earnest activist doing their best is unlikely to undo that. What's needed is a disruptive enough popular outcry to force politicians to act appropriately, when we don't really have two years to wait for the ballot box. And these kinds of tut-tutting reactions to protests undermine that response.

So I was cheesed off with your post as a symptom of a wider annoyance, rather than you personally. And my bad on her age, I'd read "art student" and assumed she was typical undergrad age. Still a relative youngster in UK politics, especially as the last two PMs have been chosen by haunted cadavers.
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Re: Protesting

Post by plodder » Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:57 pm

Meh wait until the bodge tech we’re seeing in Ukraine gets used by protesters, especially once things* start getting worse**.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Protesting

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:46 am

Piece on how pro-LGBT+ protests by Westerners about places like Qatar can be counterproductive.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/lgbtq-adv ... -backfires

Makes similar points to an African I spoke to last week.

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Re: Protesting

Post by monkey » Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:18 pm

Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil are going to have a fight at the London Marathon.

clicky

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Re: Protesting

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:29 am

monkey wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:18 pm
Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil are going to have a fight at the London Marathon.

clicky
There's a well established process by which a radical group becomes mainstream and is replaced by another radical group.

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Re: Protesting

Post by Grumble » Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:36 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:29 am
monkey wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:18 pm
Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil are going to have a fight at the London Marathon.

clicky
There's a well established process by which a radical group becomes mainstream and is replaced by another radical group.
cf suffragists and suffragettes
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

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Re: Protesting

Post by monkey » Thu Apr 20, 2023 3:20 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Apr 20, 2023 7:29 am
monkey wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:18 pm
Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil are going to have a fight at the London Marathon.

clicky
There's a well established process by which a radical group becomes mainstream and is replaced by another radical group.
Yeah, I've noticed that before. I found this one amusing though.

I suspect that the Guardian is over egging the story somewhat. I imagine the help is more like ER phoning up JSO and going "They're blocking more roads than we ever could and getting away with it, leave them to it."

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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:38 pm

Wes Streeting gets a visit from Just Stop Oil. Or rather he doesn’t because they go to the wrong house.

https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/17730 ... 58902?s=61
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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:39 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:38 pm
Wes Streeting gets a visit from Just Stop Oil. Or rather he doesn’t because they go to the wrong house.

https://x.com/juststop_oil/status/17730 ... 58902?s=61
ETA

Streeting reply https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/17730 ... 80701?s=61
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Re: Protesting

Post by IvanV » Thu May 30, 2024 6:00 pm

The gratifying and important striking down by the court of the recent illiberal anti-protest legislation doesn't seem to have got much press. I came across it here a bit belated in the Byline Times.

It could be judicially reviewed because the government introduced it through the back door by statutory instrument, which avoids a vote, but remains open to court oversight.

The Economist wrote a political obituary of Sunak when he called the election, pointing out that most of the things he has recently been pushing are things that not long ago he strenuously opposed. And when he says he has delivered this and that, as he tends to in his speeches these days, usually he it would be more accurate to say that he has failed to deliver them. The plan isn't working at all, and its objectives change from day to day.

It is pretty incompetent of a government to push through a statutory instrument that then gets struck down in judicial review. Usually you take great care to avoid that kind of thing happening. Previously, of course, this government tried to eviscerate judicial reviews, because of their allegation (which has some element of truth to it) that campaigners against something so often use JR as a delaying tactic, with no real prospect of stopping it, and that is part of why everything costs so much. But without proper judicial oversight, government could really misbehave, and that is the reason they encountered so much opposition trying to push through that legislation, that they ended up pulling the bill.

Sometimes I wonder if Sunak has been deliberately setting them up to fail in relation to those policies he is only agreeing to because he has to. The way he has gone about the Rwanda expulsions - another policy he opposed before he was prime minister - makes me think he didn't really want them to happen. Maybe he even called the election early in part so that there was no risk of them happening. Though in the cock-up vs conspiracy debate, the first is usually right.

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Re: Protesting

Post by discovolante » Thu May 30, 2024 8:26 pm

Judicial review is a cornerstone of holding the government and government departments to account, the fact that it can be abused doesn't change that. Any tool can be abused. I mean, one benefit of statutory instruments is that they introduce flexibility on issues that might need to be regularly reviewed, for example. Or they can be used as a sneaky way to introduce draconian legislation.
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Re: Protesting

Post by Stranger Mouse » Wed Jun 19, 2024 4:34 pm

Just Stop Oil decorate Stonehenge.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw44mdee0zzo

Looks counterproductive to me but YMMV.
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Re: Protesting

Post by lpm » Wed Jun 19, 2024 5:12 pm

Oh no. We won't know when the solstice is.
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