Brexit benefits

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:24 am

Mobile operators benefiting from being able to charge roaming fees in Europe again. https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/08 ... -in-the-eu

They argue that customers will benefit, as most rarely roam and so are needlessly subsidising a minority of stablemates. I guess we'll be able to compare price increases over time between operators with and without free EU roaming.

Also, why do the media insist on finding the stupidest quote from a Brexiteer and printing it? Is it just to get clicks from Remoaners posting "cry me a river for this c.nt" and then quoting some arse gravy like:
David Anderson, another Vodafone customer, is equally unhappy with the changes. He feels it's part of a wider pattern of additional charges and bureaucracy making it harder for Brits to travel abroad.

"This isn't what Brexit is meant to be," he tells Euronews Travel, "I voted leave to make things simpler, to stop having to follow rules made up by someone I didn't vote for. This is worse than it was before."

Formerly a landlord, David sold his tenanted properties in the UK shortly after the Brexit vote. He planned to move to Portugal permanently when he retired in 2018, but didn't manage to sort residency.
He could have sorted residency in 2018 as well, if he lived there. Might have needed a lawyer if he doesn't speak the language or have any local friends willing to help.
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Woodchopper
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:48 am

There's benefits to Estonia:
Brain Drain From Britain Delivers Financial Boon to Estonia
The former Soviet satellite state is welcoming British companies looking to escape the tangle of regulations and financial obstacles of doing business in Europe.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/worl ... iness.html

According to the article over 4000 UK companies have relocated to Estonia so that they can continue to have free access to the single market. Some are the whole business there, while others are shifting the company registration to Estonia (so they pay tax there).

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discovolante
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:55 am

Ha, I'm entirely unsurprised by that.
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sheldrake
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:02 pm

"She estimated the tax gain at 51 million euros."

A whole 51 million euros?

lol

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by plodder » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:20 pm

Dunno, you could buy a few thousand face masks for that.

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Woodchopper
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:28 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:02 pm
"She estimated the tax gain at 51 million euros."

A whole 51 million euros?

lol
Its a decent amount for a place which has a population similar to Birmingham.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:34 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:28 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:02 pm
"She estimated the tax gain at 51 million euros."

A whole 51 million euros?

lol
Its a decent amount for a place which has a population similar to Birmingham.
But very little for the UK. It's the salary budget of a 100 person department of a big tech company.

Enough of this passive aggressive reaching for benefits outside the UK. Here's some genuine good news: -

Shopping is recovering faster in the UK than much of Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20211106041 ... nterparts/

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:48 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:34 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:28 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:02 pm
"She estimated the tax gain at 51 million euros."

A whole 51 million euros?

lol
Its a decent amount for a place which has a population similar to Birmingham.
But very little for the UK. It's the salary budget of a 100 person department of a big tech company.

Enough of this passive aggressive reaching for benefits outside the UK. Here's some genuine good news: -

Shopping is recovering faster in the UK than much of Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20211106041 ... nterparts/
It does sound like good news, but the link with Brexit isn't clear from the article. Could you elaborate?
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:54 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:48 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:34 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:28 pm


Its a decent amount for a place which has a population similar to Birmingham.
But very little for the UK. It's the salary budget of a 100 person department of a big tech company.

Enough of this passive aggressive reaching for benefits outside the UK. Here's some genuine good news: -

Shopping is recovering faster in the UK than much of Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20211106041 ... nterparts/
It does sound like good news, but the link with Brexit isn't clear from the article. Could you elaborate?
Faster Covid recovery due to vaccine rollout and less crazy vaccine passport policy.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by shpalman » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:43 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:54 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:48 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:34 pm


But very little for the UK. It's the salary budget of a 100 person department of a big tech company.

Enough of this passive aggressive reaching for benefits outside the UK. Here's some genuine good news: -

Shopping is recovering faster in the UK than much of Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20211106041 ... nterparts/
It does sound like good news, but the link with Brexit isn't clear from the article. Could you elaborate?
Faster Covid recovery due to vaccine rollout and less crazy vaccine passport policy.
"... ahead of Spain (-19.8 per cent), Germany (-26.1 per cent), Italy (-34.6 per cent) and France (-34.9 per cent) in October"
covid-rates.png
covid-rates.png (423.44 KiB) Viewed 166 times
covid-deaths.png
covid-deaths.png (476.72 KiB) Viewed 166 times
That's you recovered from covid is it?

I don't think any of those countries require the EU Green Pass for actually going in a shop in October*; in fact every EU country is free to decide under what circumstances a Green Pass is required (and also to some extent what consitutes a valid one).

* - although in Italy you now need a Green Pass to work in one; the major issue with shopping in Milan at the moment is the crazy anti-vaccine protests every Saturday afternoon.
molto tricky

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:00 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:43 pm


That's you recovered from covid is it?
Yes. The graph you missed is 'tests per million' which is an input for the others plotted.
I don't think any of those countries require the EU Green Pass for actually going in a shop in October*; in fact every EU country is free to decide under what circumstances a Green Pass is required (and also to some extent what consitutes a valid one).
France and Germany use them for admission to restaurants, bars etc..

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shpalman
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by shpalman » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:27 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:00 pm
shpalman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:43 pm
That's you recovered from covid is it?
Yes. The graph you missed is 'tests per million' which is an input for the others plotted.
You seem to have also missed it from your reply.
daily-tests-per-thousand-people-smoothed-7-day.png
daily-tests-per-thousand-people-smoothed-7-day.png (469.41 KiB) Viewed 149 times
positive-rate-daily-smoothed.png
positive-rate-daily-smoothed.png (430.48 KiB) Viewed 149 times
Spain, France, and Italy have lower positivity rates than the UK. Germany with the much higher positivity rate is not the worst performing country in terms of the quoted metric.
I don't think any of those countries require the EU Green Pass for actually going in a shop in October*; in fact every EU country is free to decide under what circumstances a Green Pass is required (and also to some extent what constitutes a valid one).
France and Germany use them for admission to restaurants, bars etc..
So does Italy, but that's not "shopping".

Given this is comparing October 2021 to October 2019 for each country, maybe October 2019 was just worse in the UK to start with.
molto tricky

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by shpalman » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:31 pm

It's not the faster vaccine rollout either because by October most of Western Europe had more or less caught up with the UK anyway.
share-people-fully-vaccinated-covid.png
share-people-fully-vaccinated-covid.png (455.14 KiB) Viewed 146 times
Starting that one a couple of weeks before the beginning of October to allow for the antibodies.
molto tricky

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:40 pm

Doesnt the UK having a much higher test rate suggest that it will almost certainly also have a higher rate of cases detected, and that more deaths per million will also be ascribed to covid?

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by shpalman » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:45 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:40 pm
Doesnt the UK having a much higher test rate suggest that it will almost certainly also have a higher rate of cases detected, and that more deaths per million will also be ascribed to covid?
They thought of the former already by plotting the "positivity rate" for you. As for the latter, we've been over excess deaths before, but if you want to compare shopping in October 2021 with shopping in October 2019, we can also compare deaths in October 2021 with deaths in October 2019 if you like once the ONS numbers are in.
molto tricky

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:55 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:45 pm
They thought of the former already by plotting the "positivity rate" for you.
We need to be precise here. The true rate of covid infections per million is not necessarily just the product of % tested and % who are positive, there will be error bounds, but I could still have a much higher rate of covid deaths even if a smaller % of people were tested turned out positive, if I'm doing sufficiently more testing.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by plodder » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:08 pm

what the f.ck does this needle threading have to do with brexit

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by temptar » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:39 pm

Nowt.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by tom p » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:19 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:54 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:48 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:34 pm


But very little for the UK. It's the salary budget of a 100 person department of a big tech company.

Enough of this passive aggressive reaching for benefits outside the UK. Here's some genuine good news: -

Shopping is recovering faster in the UK than much of Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20211106041 ... nterparts/
It does sound like good news, but the link with Brexit isn't clear from the article. Could you elaborate?
Faster Covid recovery due to vaccine rollout and less crazy vaccine passport policy.
This has been repeatedly pointed out to you.
The vaccine rollout had nothing to do with brexit. Literally nothing. June Raine, head of the MHRA, made it clear about the authorisation and I have pointed out to you, with links, about Hungary's use of Chinese & Russian vaccines under the same authorisation mechnaism as the EU & purchased completely outwith the EU's shared purchasing scheme.
And over the past few months, western EU vaccination levels have been the same as the UK.
If you're still claiming that as a brexit benefit, then you are a liar, plain and simple.
Furthermore, vaccine passports aren't required in shops in most (?all) EU countries and so this has nothing to do with shopping.
Isn't there a rule about arguing in good faith? Isn't repeating lies and ignoring evidence arguing in bad faith?

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by WFJ » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:58 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:40 pm
Doesnt the UK having a much higher test rate suggest that it will almost certainly also have a higher rate of cases detected, and that more deaths per million will also be ascribed to covid?
Isn't that comparison b.llsh.t though? Doesn't the UK still count self-tests at home in its testing dataset. In Germany for instance, self-tests have never been reported in the data. Instead the only tests reported are those carried out at the testing centres that have been set up on almost every street corner and town square (which up until a month ago gave free tests to anyone) or in hospitals/surgeries.

The rapid rise in Germany's positivity rate also corresponds to the end of free testing for all (in German, but DeepL translation below) meaning all reported tests are now those carried out in medical facilities.
What will change from 11 October 2021?
It is now possible to make an immediate offer of vaccination to all citizens. Therefore, the federal government will end the offer of free citizen tests for all with effect from 11 October 2021. People for whom there is no possibility of obtaining full vaccination protection will continue to have the opportunity to be tested free of charge with a rapid test at least once a week.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:36 pm

Yeah, I think increased retail footfall in the UK is probably more to do with the UK's lack of restrictions on retail - lots of other countries (both in and out of the EU) are still requiring masks to go shopping, for example. (I don't think anywhere needs a vaccine passport, though).

It's hard to be certain what's due to Toryism vs Brexit of course, but the UK has always been running hot, with fewer restrictions, than most neighbouring countries - even though the EU hasn't been imposing top-down restrictions on member states. And while the vaccines got off to a quick start, it soon floundered and the UK was overtaken by the EU months before October, so even if we accept for the sake of argument that the UK's faster initial rollout can be considered a "Brexit benefit", I think the national policy of lockdowniness vs hospitalisation rates etc. is more to due with the people in charge prioritising the economy over everything else.
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by discovolante » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:23 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:36 pm
Yeah, I think increased retail footfall in the UK is probably more to do with the UK's lack of restrictions on retail - lots of other countries (both in and out of the EU) are still requiring masks to go shopping, for example. (I don't think anywhere needs a vaccine passport, though).

It's hard to be certain what's due to Toryism vs Brexit of course, but the UK has always been running hot, with fewer restrictions, than most neighbouring countries - even though the EU hasn't been imposing top-down restrictions on member states. And while the vaccines got off to a quick start, it soon floundered and the UK was overtaken by the EU months before October, so even if we accept for the sake of argument that the UK's faster initial rollout can be considered a "Brexit benefit", I think the national policy of lockdowniness vs hospitalisation rates etc. is more to due with the people in charge prioritising the economy over everything else.
You could probably test that fairly directly by measuring footfall in England compared to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, because I think England may be the only country in the UK not to have mandatory face coverings (based on a quick check of government websites) and thus is the only one making a massive f.cking hoo ha over reintroducing them, or not as the case may be.

(Although to be fair I don't think Scotland at least is faring better than England anyway, but I just wanted to be stroppy about the massive pile of fuckwits in Westminster.)
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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:33 pm

WFJ wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:58 pm


Isn't that comparison b.llsh.t though? Doesn't the UK still count self-tests at home in its testing dataset. In Germany for instance, self-tests have never been reported in the data. Instead the only tests reported are those carried out at the testing centres that have been set up on almost every street corner and town square (which up until a month ago gave free tests to anyone) or in hospitals/surgeries.
There are lots of differences between the way things are counted. Deaths, positive cases, hospitalisations etc..

The more people tested for covid, the more of them will be reported as dying from covid though.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by sheldrake » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:39 pm

discovolante wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:23 pm
..but I just wanted to be stroppy about the massive pile of fuckwits in Westminster.)
Careful. You may have momentarily experienced a dangerous level of self-awareness.

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Re: Brexit benefits

Post by WFJ » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:59 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:33 pm
WFJ wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:58 pm


Isn't that comparison b.llsh.t though? Doesn't the UK still count self-tests at home in its testing dataset. In Germany for instance, self-tests have never been reported in the data. Instead the only tests reported are those carried out at the testing centres that have been set up on almost every street corner and town square (which up until a month ago gave free tests to anyone) or in hospitals/surgeries.
There are lots of differences between the way things are counted. Deaths, positive cases, hospitalisations etc..

The more people tested for covid, the more of them will be reported as dying from covid though.
No. It's just false to say the UK has tested more. The UK has never had a decent community testing system, and any claim that is based on the UK numbers being bumped up by self-administered LFR tests at home is meaningless. Practically all those reported as dying from covid will have had confirmatory PCR tests. If these numbers referred to PCR tests only, your argument might have some weight, but I do not think they do.

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