NFTs
Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:17 am
Yes, you can turn them into real cash. I would still never buy one. There's no technical fix that will stop people who don't really own the copyright to things turning them into tokens, or previous owners just making copies before selling the token on to you etc..lpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:50 amBut can the people who "sell" them cash out?
When the headlines say a meme sells for $70,000 can that money reach a bank account? Or is it tokens with a $70,000 face value stored on another computer?
It's not a scam if you can get real world money for them. It's just a bad investment.
As with all crypto, there's obviously real money going in, as otherwise it wouldn't be worth it for the miners and other interested parties. However, most people are not cashing out, and the number of people who could hypothetically cash out at the same time without tanking the market appears to be quite small.lpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:50 amBut can the people who "sell" them cash out?
When the headlines say a meme sells for $70,000 can that money reach a bank account? Or is it tokens with a $70,000 face value stored on another computer?
It's not a scam if you can get real world money for them. It's just a bad investment.
If somebody is paid for their NFT in crypto, they can sell the crypto for normal government-issued currency on an exchange fairly easily.lpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:30 amI'm talking about sellers, not idiot buyers.
Do sellers like burning house girl and side eye girl get real money when they "sell" their meme?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... e-zoe-roth
If real money is flowing out of the b.llsh.t crypto ecosystem to real people with real college loans to pay off, what's not to like?
The twitter thread referenced at the start of the thread glides straight over this.
They are bought using crypto, usually etherium, but it is currently possible to cash this out at list price so long as you don't try to do too much at the same time. So yes sellers can make money.lpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:30 amI'm talking about sellers, not idiot buyers.
Do sellers like burning house girl and side eye girl get real money when they "sell" their meme?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... e-zoe-roth
If real money is flowing out of the b.llsh.t crypto ecosystem to real people with real college loans to pay off, what's not to like?
The twitter thread referenced at the start of the thread glides straight over this.
Imagine I have a jpeg of a puppy and make an NFT from itlpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:12 amSo is the scam that person A tells artists and meme owners to pay him $1,000 to "make" an NFT? In return he will sell this NFT for them, hopefully for big bucks. A then conspires with B, C and D to run a fake auction and between them they spend $500,000 of real cash to buy a famous meme. It gets global publicity. A then uses this loss-leader to rake in loads of commissions from artists and meme owners at $1,000 a time, none of which sell.
Or is the scam to create fake prices by A, B, C and D trading to each other at silly prices, hoping to sell to idiots who've got lucky trading crypto? The age-old ramping up of a market to big figures then offering "bargains". And real people like burning house girl are just side-effects, the fake market enabling a short window where they can transact a real sale.
The twitter guy in the OP clearly hasn't identified what the scam actually is, which is why he keeps gliding over things with confused language. He's gone badly awry with the star naming thing - that's just a novelty gift market thing. People pay £25 for a star and get in return £5 worth of a nicely presented gift box and a pretty star map and a certificate on heavy paper, and everyone has a laugh about it on Christmas morning. I've no idea why he thinks this gift market is like NFT trading.
Both those things are done, though it's not so much a meme 'owner' as 'person associated with the meme'. I assume there's also potential for money laundering too.lpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:12 amSo is the scam that person A tells artists and meme owners to pay him $1,000 to "make" an NFT? In return he will sell this NFT for them, hopefully for big bucks. A then conspires with B, C and D to run a fake auction and between them they spend $500,000 of real cash to buy a famous meme. It gets global publicity. A then uses this loss-leader to rake in loads of commissions from artists and meme owners at $1,000 a time, none of which sell.
Or is the scam to create fake prices by A, B, C and D trading to each other at silly prices, hoping to sell to idiots who've got lucky trading crypto? The age-old ramping up of a market to big figures then offering "bargains". And real people like burning house girl are just side-effects, the fake market enabling a short window where they can transact a real sale.
The twitter guy in the OP clearly hasn't identified what the scam actually is, which is why he keeps gliding over things with confused language. He's gone badly awry with the star naming thing - that's just a novelty gift market thing. People pay £25 for a star and get in return £5 worth of a nicely presented gift box and a pretty star map and a certificate on heavy paper, and everyone has a laugh about it on Christmas morning. I've no idea why he thinks this gift market is like NFT trading.
Mate, that's all obvious, even the twitter guy could understand that.sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:18 amImagine I have a jpeg of a puppy and make an NFT from itlpm wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:12 amSo is the scam that person A tells artists and meme owners to pay him $1,000 to "make" an NFT? In return he will sell this NFT for them, hopefully for big bucks. A then conspires with B, C and D to run a fake auction and between them they spend $500,000 of real cash to buy a famous meme. It gets global publicity. A then uses this loss-leader to rake in loads of commissions from artists and meme owners at $1,000 a time, none of which sell.
Or is the scam to create fake prices by A, B, C and D trading to each other at silly prices, hoping to sell to idiots who've got lucky trading crypto? The age-old ramping up of a market to big figures then offering "bargains". And real people like burning house girl are just side-effects, the fake market enabling a short window where they can transact a real sale.
The twitter guy in the OP clearly hasn't identified what the scam actually is, which is why he keeps gliding over things with confused language. He's gone badly awry with the star naming thing - that's just a novelty gift market thing. People pay £25 for a star and get in return £5 worth of a nicely presented gift box and a pretty star map and a certificate on heavy paper, and everyone has a laugh about it on Christmas morning. I've no idea why he thinks this gift market is like NFT trading.
1) How do you know I really 'owned' the original puppy image ?
2) How do you know there weren't already a practically unlimited number of copies of it around the internet even if I did in some way own the original image?
3) You buy the NFT, what's to stop you making copies before you sell it on, or even creating a new NFT of the same thing on a different blockchain. ?
4) rinse and repeat
I can see why somebody who really needed money would sell one, but buying one as an 'investment' seems completely insane to me.
etc..
You don't actually know anything about it, do you.sheldrake wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:31 am
Depends on your definition of a 'crypto bro'. These women might object to the term 'bro' https://cryptoweekly.co/crypto-female-50-awards
If you're talking about people who work for tech companies in the crypto space, broadly speaking this benefits them in the short term.
If you're talking about people who breathlessly pump real cash into any new trend, whether it be NFTs of random gifs or new cryptocurrencies with no interesting new features to set them apart other than branding, a lot of them will lose big time.
Artists who sell them win. Very cynical/quick witted crypto speculators who bought in early and get out early enough might win.
I've worked in the space a little bit, but it's not my main job. What do you know about it?
Oh, you think it's just memes. I see. Carry on LPM.The starting point for scams is identifying the players. Grifters, shills and marks. Usually the apparent players aren't the real players.
There's clearly a serious amount of investment going into this long game. Are artists or "owners" players or just accidental side effects used as the convincer? Are grifters paying meme "owners" directly? Are the purchasers shills or marks?
That is the wash trading referred to above. Yes, it happens all the time in crypto markets.plodder wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:19 amI think one of the scams is that person A, B and C in lpm's example can be the same person, trading under different names. This creates a completely false impression of how the market is operating. Person D is the mark. The person creating the NFT in the first place is the only one guaranteed an income (not the artist, the techbro)
There are good online guides which don't try to obfuscate anything. It's much less complicated than quantum physics.The jargon is also completely impenetrable which for me is a major warning sign. When people can't translate concepts into plain language it always means they don't have a f.cking clue what they're talking about. See also quantum physics etc.
I've worked on cons. No, not doing them, unpicking them.
I've had to think through product roadmaps involving NFTs and whether it's okay to advertise them and to whom. My answers at the time were 'lets not do this' for the answers above. I would not be able to name the big players (institutional or otherwise) that might be doing wash trades at the moment, though, for example. I do understand risks, but not identities of current participants. That's why I talk about 'cynical/quick witted speculators' rather than 'Deutsche bank owned hedge fund in Cayman islands'. I don't think I needed to know that stuff to see the problems though. Do I still have permission to speak?