Police committing sexual crimes

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Boustrophedon » Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:45 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:43 pm

Nicholas Angel being transferred out of the Met to Sandford because he was making the other officers 'look bad' by being good at his job doesn't seem quite so funny these days.
We had a PCSO attached to the school where I taught. He gave an assembly to the school and was introduced as PC Nicholas Angel (honest, that really was his name.) I had great difficulty not giggling, particularly when at the end when he asked if there were any questions. Not helped by the Head teacher glaring at me.

Poor lad was defeated by the entitled parents and their appalling driving outside the school gate, I felt for him.

I have encountered a corrupt policeman just once. I was parked in Builth Wells and my car was hit by a someone with a horsebox. It became obvious later that the horsebox belonged to local gentry and the copper in question was doing everything he could to obfusticate the identity of the owner and driver. Very Sandford.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by bagpuss » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:22 am

bl..dy hell. Yet another one of those "one bad apples" in the Met

So many flags missed or just flat out ignored by the Met.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by jimbob » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:46 am

bagpuss wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:22 am
bl..dy hell. Yet another one of those "one bad apples" in the Met

So many flags missed or just flat out ignored by the Met.
From the other thread.
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:33 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:43 pm
The Independent describes a new report produced for the National Police Chiefs Council and the Home Office examining how police forces tackle rape in England and Wales. It isn't linked (or even properly referenced) in the article but it's called Operation Soteria Bluestone Year 1 Report 2021 – 2022 and can be found here. I haven't read it yet (it's 192 pages) but the sub-title of the Indy article led me to this paragraph,
In all the pathfinder* police forces, some officers interviewed displayed a culture of disbelieving victims. There are serving officers today who don’t think that RAOSO should be a priority for policing. Some stated that they believed that most reports of rape are just examples of ‘regretful sex’, or that if victims presented additional issues, such as mental health problems or alcohol/substance misuse then this was the victim’s problem and the legal system was not obligated to safeguard them. Not surprisingly, these officers were less enthusiastic about whether there would be any successful change from the work of Operation Soteria Bluestone. These officers were found to be in the minority but nonetheless, they contribute to a considerable drag on progress, or obstruct progress (either intentionally or inadvertently), and influence how new officers are socialised into RAOSO work. [my emphasis]

* The Year 1 work programme consisted of research deep-dives in four police forces (known as ‘pathfinders’) between September 2021 and August 2022. The four pathfinder police forces are: the Metropolitan Police Service, Durham Constabulary, West Midlands Police and South Wales Police. [my asterisk]
It's good this sort of work is being done but holy f.ck does it highlight how useless the police are. From a piece on the National Police Chief's Council website,
...after 18 months, Avon and Somerset have increasing their adult rape charge rate from 3 per cent to over 10 per cent.
THREE PERCENT :shock:

Look at the evidence that was ignored in London.



https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxn3dm/ ... pps-arrest
Exclusive: VICE World News has obtained WhatsApp messages and voicenotes sent by Andrew Tate to a woman who accused him of a 2013 rape. She said police told her they believed her account, but authorities declined to prosecute.
Descriptions of violent sexual acts in article
Looks like a complete indifference to rape and sexual violence as opposed to protecting one's own.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by jimbob » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:50 am

jimbob wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:46 am
bagpuss wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:22 am
bl..dy hell. Yet another one of those "one bad apples" in the Met

So many flags missed or just flat out ignored by the Met.
From the other thread.
jimbob wrote:
Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:33 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:43 pm
The Independent describes a new report produced for the National Police Chiefs Council and the Home Office examining how police forces tackle rape in England and Wales. It isn't linked (or even properly referenced) in the article but it's called Operation Soteria Bluestone Year 1 Report 2021 – 2022 and can be found here. I haven't read it yet (it's 192 pages) but the sub-title of the Indy article led me to this paragraph,



It's good this sort of work is being done but holy f.ck does it highlight how useless the police are. From a piece on the National Police Chief's Council website,

THREE PERCENT :shock:

Look at the evidence that was ignored in London.



https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxn3dm/ ... pps-arrest
Exclusive: VICE World News has obtained WhatsApp messages and voicenotes sent by Andrew Tate to a woman who accused him of a 2013 rape. She said police told her they believed her account, but authorities declined to prosecute.
Descriptions of violent sexual acts in article
Looks like a complete indifference to rape and sexual violence as opposed to protecting one's own.
Also note that Hertfordshire Police were also involved in both cases
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Fishnut » Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:25 pm

Back in October 2021, in another thread, I wrote,
Fishnut wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:12 am
I really want to know if David Carrick was accused of rape at the time and no-one bothered to investigate, or if the victim came forward in light of the attention the Sarah Everard case has put on the Met. I suspect we won't find out any details until after criminal proceedings are completed but I'm going to make a prediction here that the case was reported at the time but not investigated.
Looking at a few different timelines of his activities*, it seems that the rapes were first reported in 2021 (so my prediction was wrong) but there was a long history of complaints about abuse, harassment and violence in his personal life and unprofessional conduct in his working life that didn't seem to concern anyone with the authority to do anything.

He told the women that no-one would believe them because he was a police officer, and they knew he was right so didn't even bother trying. I don't blame them. We've all seem the conviction statistics, we've all seen the stories and reports of how poorly rape victims are treated. Why on earth would you waste your time and risk yourself further to go into a police station and say 'one of your colleagues raped me' when you know at best they'll ignore you and at worst make your life hell.

The Guardian article linked to by bagpuss says he was arrested in October 2021 on rape charges. What it misses was that he was also arrested on rape charges in July of that year, after another woman accused him. He was put on restricted duties but the case was dropped after the woman withdrew her complaint and he was allowed back to work in September without any further vetting. The following month he was accused of rape by another woman and that finally got people taking notice.

Funnily enough, he's pled guilty to all the rape accusations except the one by woman who went to the police in October. And if I'm understanding this Evening Standard article, the CPS has decided not to go to trial for that case. :roll: :evil:

The Met are apparently reviewing every past accusation of domestic abuse or sexual offence by its officers and staff, which involves around 1,000 of their 45,000 employees.

A number of articles call Carrick 'one of Britain's worst sex offenders'. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I find this language far optimistic. He may be one of the worst sex offenders we've prosecuted (though even then not fully), but I have little reason to doubt there aren't plenty others out there who have been ignored by the police for just as long if not longer.

* Subverting my expectations, the last one, by the Mirror, is the most detailed and informative
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by bagpuss » Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:36 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:25 pm
Back in October 2021, in another thread, I wrote,
Fishnut wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:12 am
I really want to know if David Carrick was accused of rape at the time and no-one bothered to investigate, or if the victim came forward in light of the attention the Sarah Everard case has put on the Met. I suspect we won't find out any details until after criminal proceedings are completed but I'm going to make a prediction here that the case was reported at the time but not investigated.
Looking at a few different timelines of his activities*, it seems that the rapes were first reported in 2021 (so my prediction was wrong) but there was a long history of complaints about abuse, harassment and violence in his personal life and unprofessional conduct in his working life that didn't seem to concern anyone with the authority to do anything.

He told the women that no-one would believe them because he was a police officer, and they knew he was right so didn't even bother trying. I don't blame them. We've all seem the conviction statistics, we've all seen the stories and reports of how poorly rape victims are treated. Why on earth would you waste your time and risk yourself further to go into a police station and say 'one of your colleagues raped me' when you know at best they'll ignore you and at worst make your life hell.

The Guardian article linked to by bagpuss says he was arrested in October 2021 on rape charges. What it misses was that he was also arrested on rape charges in July of that year, after another woman accused him. He was put on restricted duties but the case was dropped after the woman withdrew her complaint and he was allowed back to work in September without any further vetting. The following month he was accused of rape by another woman and that finally got people taking notice.

Funnily enough, he's pled guilty to all the rape accusations except the one by woman who went to the police in October. And if I'm understanding this Evening Standard article, the CPS has decided not to go to trial for that case. :roll: :evil:

The Met are apparently reviewing every past accusation of domestic abuse or sexual offence by its officers and staff, which involves around 1,000 of their 45,000 employees.

A number of articles call Carrick 'one of Britain's worst sex offenders'. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I find this language far optimistic. He may be one of the worst sex offenders we've prosecuted (though even then not fully), but I have little reason to doubt there aren't plenty others out there who have been ignored by the police for just as long if not longer.

* Subverting my expectations, the last one, by the Mirror, is the most detailed and informative
Ah, thanks fishnut, as ever, for your in depth information. I felt like we ought to have mentioned him before but the name didn't ring any bells.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Boustrophedon » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:32 pm

In a trawl through records the Mat have uncovered 1071 other officers accused of domestic abuse and sex offences and yet remain serving in the police.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 62870.html
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by TopBadger » Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm

Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Grumble » Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:17 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm
Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
I’d like to see a comparison to the numbers of priests who commit abuse before commenting on that.
A bit churlish

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Fishnut » Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:42 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm
Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
Honestly, it seemed surprisingly low to me, and feels very much the tip of the iceberg
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:08 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm
Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
No. A while back I linked to some statistics from things like anonymous surveys which suggested that about 10-15 per cent of men say that they have committed rape, sexual assault and similar numbers have committed intimate partner violence.

One in 45 is very low, most likely a severe underestimate.

And if someone is thinking ‘can’t be right, I know lots of men and none of them have raped someone’ it’s likely that some of them have.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:09 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:42 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm
Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
Honestly, it seemed surprisingly low to me, and feels very much the tip of the iceberg
I agree.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Grumble » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:51 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:08 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm
Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
No. A while back I linked to some statistics from things like anonymous surveys which suggested that about 10-15 per cent of men say that they have committed rape, sexual assault and similar numbers have committed intimate partner violence.

One in 45 is very low, most likely a severe underestimate.

And if someone is thinking ‘can’t be right, I know lots of men and none of them have raped someone’ it’s likely that some of them have.
That is such a depressing thought.
A bit churlish

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by basementer » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:29 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:09 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:42 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 5:38 pm
Does 1 in 45 seem staggeringly high to anyone else?
Honestly, it seemed surprisingly low to me, and feels very much the tip of the iceberg
I agree.
Yes. I think 1 in 100 would be a lowish estimate for all men, and the attraction of getting a uniform and a warrant card will be a magnet for misogynists and abusers. I reckon the ratio is likely to be worse.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:19 am

basementer wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:29 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:09 pm
Fishnut wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:42 pm

Honestly, it seemed surprisingly low to me, and feels very much the tip of the iceberg
I agree.
Yes. I think 1 in 100 would be a lowish estimate for all men, and the attraction of getting a uniform and a warrant card will be a magnet for misogynists and abusers. I reckon the ratio is likely to be worse.
I think it’s a lot higher than one in a hundred. But otherwise, yes, we know from many other cases that men who want to commit abuses actively seek out positions of power and responsibility. They get access to vulnerable people who are easier to abuse, the abuser is more likely to be believed, and they know how to manipulate processes.

What’s concerning about the cases is not that police officers have been found guilty. It’s inevitable that some will. But that the police forces did not seem to be vigilant and did seem to go out of their way to avoid investigating officers accused of crimes against women.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by bagpuss » Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:29 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:19 am

...

What’s concerning about the cases is not that police officers have been found guilty. It’s inevitable that some will. But that the police forces did not seem to be vigilant and did seem to go out of their way to avoid investigating officers accused of crimes against women.
This, exactly. And some of the officers, Carrick included, have been in roles such as firearms officer for which they were supposed to have to go through rigorous selection procedures which one would have hoped expected would have required additional vetting and much more careful examination of their record and behaviour than for a regular police officer. How the f*** did Carrick get through that? Although the rapes that had already taken place when he was moved to that role had not been reported to the Met, there had already been a number of complaints against him at that point. Some were withdrawn, others investigated and dismissed and some dealt with internally, but the number of complaints being made, even (especially?) with some being withdrawn, ought to have raised enough red flags to have prevented him becoming a firearms officer. There seem to be only two possible conclusions to draw from the fact that he was able to become a firearms officer with that record - either the Met couldn't have cared less about violence, abuse and harassment of women, or they'll happily hand a gun to anyone who can shoot. Or, of course, both. I think we'd all agree there's been plenty of evidence for the former being true but now I'm very much coming to the conclusion that the latter is true too.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by JQH » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:10 pm

Andrew Pierce was in Good Morning Britain today banging on about monsters in the Met.

Got two problems with this:

1. While their crimes are monstrous, talking about rapists as monsters pushes our thoughts away from recognising that it's ordinary blokes doing it.

2. If any time in the recent past the Met had made a serious effort to purge its ranks of misogynists, Pierce would have been leading the charge against "woke".

And something else that has occurred to me: the programme interviewed the Met Commissioner. In the course of it he several times said they should be as tough against police officers investigated for crimes "as they are against criminals". Not "other criminals" note. Kind of implies that he still doesn't think of such cops as criminals. If he'd said it once I might accept it was a slip of the tongue but he said it at least three times.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by jimbob » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:27 pm

From ISF,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... st13989111
Carrot Flower King wrote:
malbui;13988753 wrote:I see that the consistent message today is that victims should always report attacks.

Because we all know how seriously reports are always taken.
During the period that Carrick was committing his offences I knew a family in north Northumberland (professionally), in which the 2 bairns had been referred to us for severe anxiety issues. Transpired that the mother had been subject to significant, controlling domestic abuse and violence by her then husband, which had spun off on to the bairns too.

This abuse and violence was reported to the local police, but it was never even investigated and she was, in effect, told to shut up and go away.

She left him eventually (turns out he was also having an affair with a colleague) and after that police cars would start parking outside the house late at night, there would be mysterious phone calls, police officers would arrive saying there was a report of disturbance...

Oh, did I mention what the abusive husband did for a living? Sergeant in the local police...

Not the only story of this sort I heard in Northumberland.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Boustrophedon » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:38 pm

bagpuss wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:29 am


This, exactly. And some of the officers, Carrick included, have been in roles such as firearms officer for which they were supposed to have to go through rigorous selection procedures which one would have hoped expected would have required additional vetting and much more careful examination of their record and behaviour than for a regular police officer. How the f*** did Carrick get through that? Although the rapes that had already taken place when he was moved to that role had not been reported to the Met, there had already been a number of complaints against him at that point. Some were withdrawn, others investigated and dismissed and some dealt with internally, but the number of complaints being made, even (especially?) with some being withdrawn, ought to have raised enough red flags to have prevented him becoming a firearms officer. There seem to be only two possible conclusions to draw from the fact that he was able to become a firearms officer with that record - either the Met couldn't have cared less about violence, abuse and harassment of women, or they'll happily hand a gun to anyone who can shoot. Or, of course, both. I think we'd all agree there's been plenty of evidence for the former being true but now I'm very much coming to the conclusion that the latter is true too.
Those police volunteering to be firearms officers should be the first to be rejected, IMHO.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Opti » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:51 pm

Excellent piece by Marina Hyde today.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Fishnut » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:10 pm

Opti beat me to it, but I want to use the piece by Marina Hyde as a springboard for a few comments. The first is to note that it makes the same point that JQH made,
Out on the airwaves to address the Carrick case, the new Met commissioner Sir Mark Rowley’s big buzzword has been “integrity”. Rowley said yesterday: “We haven’t applied the same sense of ruthlessness to guarding our own integrity that we routinely apply to confronting criminals.” But Carrick WAS a criminal. Multiple criminal complaints about him were routinely ignored.
More importantly, I want to go back to something I mentioned in my last post that has been stuck in my mind ever since. Due to the huge number of rape charges against Carrick it's hard to parse individual allegations against the resulting charges but from my little bit of research it really looks like the rape allegation made in October 2021 was not prosecuted. The Evening Standard reported,
[Carrick] denied a further count of rape in September 2020 relating to a 13th woman, whose allegation triggered the investigation, and the Crown Prosecution Service decided it was not in the public interest to proceed to trial on the charge.
And this is backed up by the CPS which writes,
Carrick was charged with offences which related to 13 women. After careful consideration the decision was reached to accept his not guilty plea in relation to one of the women. 
The more I think about this the more baffled I feel. This woman went to the police to report a rape by one of their officers, something that must have taken huge bravery and something she's highly unlikely to do if it was a false accusation. Her report led to him finally being investigated and determined to be one of the most prolific rapists known in the UK and yet somehow her testimony wasn't deemed sufficiently believable to be prosecuted. It feels like such a huge denial of justice for her.

The Marina Hyde piece mentioned this article by Sian Norris that describes the first victim of John Worboys,
She described how, when the case was reopened years after her police report, she attended an identity parade of Worboys along with “20 or 30 other women. And I just sat in the corner thinking ‘you’re all here because of me. You’re here because I wasn’t believable'”.

The fault was not her lack of believable testimony. She told the truth about what was done to her. It was that the police refused to believe it. She talks about carrying the guilt, but the guilt does not lie with her. The issue is not that she was not believable. The issue is that she was not believed. 
The victim who went to the police in October, despite everything else, was somehow still deemed not believable. Or, at least, not believable enough to go to trial. It's telling that it's the only case that Carrick didn't plead guilty to, and feels like a last 'f.ck you' to the victim who caused his world to end. 'You may have got me put in prison, but at least I'm not going to prison for your rape.' And it honestly makes me cynically suspect that for all their claims of being appalled and pledging to doing better, nothing's actually changing. If they can't be bothered to go to trial for the only not guilty plea by a prolific rapist, what chance of justice does any rape victim have? Where would we be if he'd decided to plead not guilty to the other charges? Would the CPS have pushed for trial or gone down the 'insufficient evidence, not in the public interest' route for them as well and let him go free to continue harming women?

My suspicion isn't helped by the CPS's own words,
In this case, as with many other rape and serious sexual assault cases, the evidence may have appeared limited.

However, it was the testimonies of the women that provided the key evidence against Carrick as they were strong, authentic and consistent, as more and more victims came forward.
This is quite simply astounding to me when you consider that the CPS has an entire Annex titled Tackling Rape Myths and Stereotypes which has an entire section on Inconsistencies,
- Inconsistencies in accounts can happen where a person is telling the truth or not.
- Avoid an either/or argument that allows a complainant’s evidence to be wholly dismissed because of a peripheral inconsistency. Don’t pit it as either you believe the defendant OR you believe the complainant for this reason.
- Rape can be very traumatic and memory can be affected in a number of ways. Understanding the effects of fear and the psychological mechanisms that may occur during a sexual assault is vital when considering recall and memory. Some, understandably, may try to avoid thinking about being raped or try to avoid recalling it all – this can impact upon recall.
If they're unable to follow their own guidance in their decisions to prosecute in such a high profile case then what hope is there for lower profile cases? If every woman who's been raped must reach the standard of being "strong, authentic and consistent" regardless of how they react to trauma, then no wonder we have such a low conviction rate.

Another aspect that struck me was the ages of his victims. The woman who went to the police in October 2021 was 50. Another was 40. These are middle-aged women, not the sort of women we think of as being rape victims (ONS data on the age of rape victims between March 2018 and December 2020 shows 88% of female victims are under the age of 34) which could be another way to make them less likely to be believed by taking advantage of the 'who'd want to rape you?' attitude far to prevalent in society. Of course, there could be any number of reasons why Carrick went after middle-aged women, but given how calculated so much of his behaviour seemed, I can't help but wonder if this was another calculation to reduce his risk of getting caught.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by Gfamily » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:31 pm

Thank you Fishnut.
It's not enough that that bastard gets put away for the crimes he admitted; he needs to be tried for the one that resulted in his being questioned. That evidence deserves to be heard and tested in court for the victim's sake.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by IvanV » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:08 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:31 pm
Thank you Fishnut.
It's not enough that that bastard gets put away for the crimes he admitted; he needs to be tried for the one that resulted in his being questioned. That evidence deserves to be heard and tested in court for the victim's sake.
You can just imagine him thinking, I was getting away with it until you, so I'll punish you for that.

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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by jimbob » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:17 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:31 pm
Thank you Fishnut.
It's not enough that that bastard gets put away for the crimes he admitted; he needs to be tried for the one that resulted in his being questioned. That evidence deserves to be heard and tested in court for the victim's sake.
Absoulutely.

And with him having been in the same unit as Couzens and the news of the WhatsApp group chats around them, the whole unit in particular has to be suspect, and virtually every decision is tainted.

I'd start with checking whether any cautions were issued where prosecutions would be more appropriate - and any evidence that they presented in court.
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Re: Police committing sexual crimes

Post by jimbob » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:58 pm

John Crace is also right

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... 0secretary.
Most of the rest of the chamber seemed to side with Cooper. Priti Patel could barely conceal her contempt as she observed that she was still waiting for Braverman to act on recommendations she had made as home secretary.

But it was Harriet Harman who spoke for everyone. She wanted heads to roll. Who dreamed up the regulations that prevented the police from sacking a rapist? And wasn’t it time to say sayonara to the senior managers who had time and again promoted Bastard Dave?
If you have Priti Patel an Yvette Cooper both attacking you for being too soft on the Met, you're doing something wrong
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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