How the British are perceived overseas

[Gfamily]

Ireland, RoI, invented crisps

Are you sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kitchiner ?

His love life was chequered: he married, separated, and had an illegitimate son, whom he acknowledged and funded. He surrounded himself with like-minded individuals, setting up a "committee of taste" which revolved around dinners, hosted by himself or held elsewhere

Just the kind of "better class" people that less able people admire - though funding the illegitimate sons is not regularised now.

[shpalman]

‘Large proportion’ of EU citizens plan to leave ‘unrecognisable’ UK because of Brexit

A survey carried out earlier this year by researchers from the University of Strathclyde’s found 58.62 per cent of respondents believe Brexit increased the likelihood of them leaving the UK.

The research revealed that the proportion would be even higher if it weren’t for practical concerns, like pension rights, forcing Europeans to remain in the UK.

Nonetheless, the study highlights the extent to which EU citizens’ sense of home has been damaged by Brexit – with data suggesting they are now feeling less attached and more insecure about their lives in the UK.

[sTeamTraen]

‘Large proportion’ of EU citizens plan to leave ‘unrecognisable’ UK because of Brexit

A survey carried out earlier this year by researchers from the University of Strathclyde’s found 58.62 per cent of respondents believe Brexit increased the likelihood of them leaving the UK.

These (media) articles are very frustrating. We are not told what proportion of EU citizens are planning to leave the UK - the survey may or may not tell us that. Instead we are told that 58.62% "believe Brexit increased the likelihood of them leaving the UK", which is not the same thing at all. Perhaps before Brexit they thought there was a 5% chance of them leaving and now there's a 6% chance. The casual reader is left with the idea that over half are actually planning to leave, presumably in some reasonable short time frame. But the proportion who are planning to leave could still be anywhere between 0 and 100%. You have to read the academic paper to find that "there is a sizable proportion who intend to leave in the near future or only stay short-term at a combined 14.65%", and the bar chart on page 15 suggests that just over half of those, say 7.6%, are in the "planning to leave in the near future" camp.

This is mostly just nerdery, but I do wish that people complaining about Brexit would do so accurately. Otherwise it just hands ammunition to people who claim that it's all scaremongering. When this time next year "only" 300k EU citizens have left, this will be turned into "Despite the claims of treacherous and/or foreign lefty academics, millions of EU citizens have stayed to enjoy the sunlit uplands".

[sheldrake]

London has an abudance of EU citizens very annoyed about brexit but show no sign of leaving because their job prospects are better here and they secretly like the people.

[plodder]

It’s also rare to emigrate once - vanishingly rare to emigrate twice.

[Woodchopper]

It’s also rare to emigrate once - vanishingly rare to emigrate twice.

Depends what you mean by emigrate. Yes it is rare to move a whole family.

But lots of people without dependents move and work around several European countries. They're pretty mobile and go where the jobs are.

[plodder]

It’s also rare to emigrate once - vanishingly rare to emigrate twice.

Depends what you mean by emigrate. Yes it is rare to move a whole family.

But lots of people without dependents move and work around several European countries. They're pretty mobile and go where the jobs are.

I guess it depends on what we mean by emigrate. Kids on gap years working in bars across Europe are a thing but it's not clear who they were asking in the survey (only skim read it)

[Woodchopper]

It’s also rare to emigrate once - vanishingly rare to emigrate twice.

Depends what you mean by emigrate. Yes it is rare to move a whole family.

But lots of people without dependents move and work around several European countries. They're pretty mobile and go where the jobs are.

I guess it depends on what we mean by emigrate. Kids on gap years working in bars across Europe are a thing but it's not clear who they were asking in the survey (only skim read it)

I'm not thinking of kids on gap years. But there is a large number of mostly unnoticed people that are a highly mobile workforce. The people who pick fruit, wash dishes, serve coffee, clean offices etc.

[plodder]

You're absolutely right - especially in cities.

[Bird on a Fire]

And academics - smaller numbers but quite important to some sectors.

I've not seen figures, but anecdotally it seems like a lot of folk are put off. Of course, UK academia has quite low salaries by north european standards, and things like contracts and pensions are worsening so fast that there's been at least 3 strikes in the last decade, so as ever it's not clear whether to blame Brexit, Tories more generally, or a bit if both.

[sheldrake]

And academics - smaller numbers but quite important to some sectors.

I've not seen figures, but anecdotally it seems like a lot of folk are put off. Of course, UK academia has quite low salaries by north european standards, and things like contracts and pensions are worsening so fast that there's been at least 3 strikes in the last decade, so as ever it's not clear whether to blame Brexit, Tories more generally, or a bit if both.

I don't know about academics specifically but so far figures show EU immigration has decreased, non-EU immigration has increased.

[IvanV]

There is also high migration in trades depending upon the highly educated and skilled. The economic consultancy sector I work in has always had a lot of non-natives. Migrating several times is not uncommon in this sector.

[dyqik]

Edit: BoaF already said what I wrote.

[dyqik]

And academics - smaller numbers but quite important to some sectors.

I've not seen figures, but anecdotally it seems like a lot of folk are put off. Of course, UK academia has quite low salaries by north european standards, and things like contracts and pensions are worsening so fast that there's been at least 3 strikes in the last decade, so as ever it's not clear whether to blame Brexit, Tories more generally, or a bit if both.

Tories and Labour is why I left the UK to the US, where funding is more stable, and the whole structure of research funding isn't reorganized every decade.

[Bird on a Fire]

And academics - smaller numbers but quite important to some sectors.

I've not seen figures, but anecdotally it seems like a lot of folk are put off. Of course, UK academia has quite low salaries by north european standards, and things like contracts and pensions are worsening so fast that there's been at least 3 strikes in the last decade, so as ever it's not clear whether to blame Brexit, Tories more generally, or a bit if both.

I don't know about academics specifically but so far figures show EU immigration has decreased, non-EU immigration has increased.

May's "hostile environment" was already putting off non-EU migrants (in my anecdotal experience). Academic contracts are often precarious, and nobody wants to move somewhere where they might get chucked out during a few months between jobs, or almost immediately after finishing a degree for that matter.

For students, there's growth in numbers from China, and very recently India, but EU and rest of world seem flat. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/r ... to-the-uk/ This is against a context of drastic growth in UK student numbers, with the UK losing market share overall, and specifically of EU and US students.

Can't immediately find data for academic jobs, rather than student positions, though.

[sheldrake]

Rest of world increased bit since 2016 in figure 3, but not as dramatically as India.

[dyqik]

And academics - smaller numbers but quite important to some sectors.

I've not seen figures, but anecdotally it seems like a lot of folk are put off. Of course, UK academia has quite low salaries by north european standards, and things like contracts and pensions are worsening so fast that there's been at least 3 strikes in the last decade, so as ever it's not clear whether to blame Brexit, Tories more generally, or a bit if both.

I don't know about academics specifically but so far figures show EU immigration has decreased, non-EU immigration has increased.

May's "hostile environment" was already putting off non-EU migrants (in my anecdotal experience). Academic contracts are often precarious, and nobody wants to move somewhere where they might get chucked out during a few months between jobs, or almost immediately after finishing a degree for that matter.

Even before that, IM(anecdotal)E the Brexit vote was putting off EU academics due to the uncertainty about whether they'd remain eligible for EU funding if they moved to the UK. And US academics and the like were also concerned about the status of large programs with a significant EU funding element.

[Woodchopper]

Even before that, IM(anecdotal)E the Brexit vote was putting off EU academics due to the uncertainty about whether they'd remain eligible for EU funding if they moved to the UK. And US academics and the like were also concerned about the status of large programs with a significant EU funding element.

Yes, among people I know that was the biggest concern.

[Millennie Al]

Ireland, RoI, invented crisps

Are you sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Kitchiner ?

Both true and false. Kitchener may have created crisps, but from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_chip

in 1954, Joe "Spud" Murphy, the owner of the Irish crisps company Tayto, and his employee Seamus Burke, produced the world's first seasoned chips: Cheese & Onion and Salt & Vinegar.

Since the vast majority of modern crisps are flavoured, it's fair to say they were invented by Joe Murphy & co. even though the basic crisp itself already existed.