Re: Murder by a British Soldier in Kenya
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:57 pm
Wow, that's horrific.
Yes, that's right plodder.. it must be all those intractable, unreasonable people who disagree with you who are nuts.plodder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:53 pmDefine "enough", or perhaps just accept that you're riled because you've been silly and you got caught - we don't really need to end the risk of thermo-nuclear war in order to ensure that fewer women are murdered by British squaddies.
Sheldrake has also been silly agreeing with you although he is typically caught in a forest of psycho-dramatic thorns, whereas you ought to know better.
I agree that the best place for the alleged murdered to be tried would be in Kenya. If he is found guilty he should be punished by the Kenyan court.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:08 amIt's for the Kenyam authorities to investigate crimes in Kenya. We no longer believe in the White Man's Burden.
Compare with the death of Harry Dunn in the UK. British authorities investigated, and an American spy, Anne Sacoolas, was whisked away by the Americans once it seemed the investigation was getting close to her. It is clear that the Americans are not going to extradite her and are going to frustrate any attempt at justice. We do not expect the Americans to take the lead in investigating crimes in the UK comitted by their personnel.
The difference from that case should not be that the UK investigates abroad and takes charge, it should be that the UK cooperates with legitimate foreign investigations and is willing to extradite personnel who have acted in a personal capacity (I think it is too unrealistic to expect any country to hold its own forces to account in their professional capacity). Cover-ups should not be tolerated.
I agree that it may be impossible to prevent men who want to murder from joining the armed forces. But the environment in which they operate can make it harder or easier for them to commit crimes.Millennie Al wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:08 amGiven that the entire purpose of the military is to kill people, it's hardly surprising that some enjoy it. It's like keeping a vicious guard dog and then being surpised when it bites a guest. As they say this time of year, lest we forget.
One soldier, known as Soldier Y, says that the killer showed him her body on the night of her murder. Soldier Y claims he "told the proper people" but was dismissed as a liar. [Source].
She had been had been beaten and stabbed. Her final moments were spent suffocating in sewage. The identity of her killer is known and yet almost a decade after her murder her family are still unable to get justice.
Soldier Y claims that on returning to base, he immediately told senior officers what he had seen at the hotel.
“I went back to camp, grassed him up [to] everyone, all the lads, all the senior command that were there, everyone. I went to higher up, hierarchy, people that should have dealt with [it]. I told the proper people, [and] I got told to get to f***.” His claims, he says, were treated as “a standing joke”. [Source][...]When asked why he thought no action had been taken against Soldier X, [another] source said: “In the army, there is a certain code. You keep your mouth shut. There are some unwritten rules. Stuff does get covered up, you protect your own.” [my emphasis] [Source]
But on his return to the UK, rumours had started. “There was a lot of talk among the soldiers that a soldier had killed her [Agnes]. “I heard there was a soldier boasting about killing a prostitute in Nanyuki.” [Source]
It appears that someone tried to report the crime, but they weren't taken seriously. There was a general 'code of silence' and no attempt to investigate what happened.Despite this all these rumours,
...the British Army has held no inquiry, and none of the soldiers present have been questioned by their superiors. Even after an inquest in 2019 — in which a judge, Njeri Thuku, ruled that Wanjiru was “murdered by British soldiers” and ordered two criminal inquiries — no action was taken by the army. [Source]
This needs to be an investigation into what happened and why there wasn't an investigation first time round. Let's see how well they do on the second bit. The thing people can do is keep an eye on the second bit.
I think people are more shocked at the long delay between the crime being reported and being investigated, which if the reports are even roughly to be believed sounds like a deliberate cover-up, which is unacceptable.
Do not be surprised if the answer involves the Kenyan police (that could simply be a false claim about the Kenyan police which nobody ever gets to the bottom of).Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:43 amI think people are more shocked at the long delay between the crime being reported and being investigated, which if the reports are even roughly to be believed sounds like a deliberate cover-up, which is unacceptable.
Yes, indeed.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:43 amI think people are more shocked at the long delay between the crime being reported and being investigated, which if the reports are even roughly to be believed sounds like a deliberate cover-up, which is unacceptable.
I keep seeing the claim that the RMP is conducting an investigation but am unclear of its source. The only investigation I've seen the British Military publicly discuss is the one being conducted by Kenyan authorities, which they have said they will "cooperate very closely with". I've not seen anything to suggest they are currently running their own investigation. I very much think they should so would appreciate some evidence that this is happening.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:08 amYes, indeed.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:43 amI think people are more shocked at the long delay between the crime being reported and being investigated, which if the reports are even roughly to be believed sounds like a deliberate cover-up, which is unacceptable.
A generous reading of this could be that they are going to wait until the judicial process is complete before examining why it took so long for that process to be allowed to take place. A more cynical reading is that they are hoping that everyone will forget about it.While I have not opened a formal investigation, I have absolutely asked the question of the Army to get the bottom of what happened with the original allegations and where we got with that. At the same time, I am respecting the judicial process. The right hon. Member and I will know that we can comment only so far on what is ongoing with that incident and others that appear in the service justice scheme, or indeed on any foreign assistance required.
The centre for military justice said an rmp inquiry had been launched in an article on october 24thWoodchopper wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:09 pmI think the source is this report in The Mail from 5 November: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urder.html
I haven’t found an earlier source reporting an ongoing UK investigation.
The documents analysed by Docherty include many from British officials complaining about Annesley's conduct. Yet nowhere was there any suggestion that he should be prosecuted.“The consul says, whoever feels inclined to cohabit with a woman must come upstairs.”
Turner also said: he heard: “the poor girl dragging herself down the stairs, crying bitterly”. “The soldiers came down and made it a matter of talk and laughter how [they] actually cohabited with Ekang, the consul himself assisting to hold her down.”
Hopefully this means the family will be able to get some justice at long last.The judge said the United Kingdom government had waived its state immunity for the soldiers and the army corporately when it signed the Defence Cooperation Agreement (DCA) in 2016.