UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

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Fishnut
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UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by Fishnut » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm

The Sunday Telegraph has reported on the plans of Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland Secretary, to publish an "official history" of the Troubles. The print version of the story can be seen here (transcribed behind the spoiler below) and the online version can be seen here (there are minor differences between them).
Spoiler:

The Irish Daily Mail published an article today on the announcement (screenshot here, transcribed behind spoiler below).
Spoiler:

While the government is comparing this report to the one produced after WW1 (which seems to be held in high regard by historians) there is an overwhelming sense of cynicism from everyone who isn't directly involved in this plan. The fact it is being commissioned to "correct" a narrative has, I think, got many people worried that despite the promises of independence, there will be a narrative bias. The lack of discussion with the Irish or Northern Irish governments prior to the announcement also lends weight to fears that this will be a one-sided account that downplays the culpability of the British government and military.

The promises of no government interference also ring hollow when you remember how roundly the National Trust was attacked by Conservative MPs for publishing its Interim Report on the Connections between Colonialism and Properties now in the Care of the National Trust, which led to the formation of the Common Sense Group of over 50 Conservative MPs which then attacked its findings, its authors and the National Trust for daring to have commissioned it. Additionally,
Parliamentarians then called two debates in Parliamentary Hall and the House of Lords to debate the future of the National Trust (November) and the trust’s 125th anniversary (December), where the report was debated extensively. [Source]
If one minor report can do all that can you imagine what would happen if the Troubles report came out with anything less than a glowing account of the period on the part of British activities?
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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by plodder » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:30 pm

Unless this is part of a wider reconciliation strategy then it’s a waste of time.

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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by Fishnut » Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:35 pm

Agreed.
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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by dyqik » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:25 pm

plodder wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:30 pm
Unless this is part of a wider reconciliation strategy then it’s a waste of time.
Unless it's part of an international truth and reconciliation commission, it's worse than a waste of time, it will make things worse. However scrupulously balanced and independent it is, it will be assumed to be covering something up.

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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 pm

Also, like the government's last report on institutional racism and the legacy of "the Caribbean experience", it will definitely be massively biased and one-sided, intended as a propaganda exercise only.

If they gave any shits about balance they would have at least mentioned it to Stormont, rather than having it be a project from the Westminster-based Conservative & Unionist party.

The idea of an "official history" is pretty stupid anyway, no?

ETA, lmfao at the idea of starting in the 1960s. Why do right-wingers never understand the importance of context?
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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by Fishnut » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:25 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 pm
Also, like the government's last report on institutional racism and the legacy of "the Caribbean experience", it will definitely be massively biased and one-sided, intended as a propaganda exercise only.

If they gave any shits about balance they would have at least mentioned it to Stormont, rather than having it be a project from the Westminster-based Conservative & Unionist party.

The idea of an "official history" is pretty stupid anyway, no?

ETA, lmfao at the idea of starting in the 1960s. Why do right-wingers never understand the importance of context?
You've made a load of points I meant to make but forgot about as I was distracted transcribing the articles. I honestly couldn't believe it when I saw that it was only going to start in the 1960s. Maybe 1860s if you don't want to go all the way back to Cromwell but I don't know how you can start your 'official history' decades after the Easter Uprising, the 1918 election and the Irish War of Independence. It's symbolic of how little most English people know about Irish history. I have to admit to being among them, though I did learn a bit more while living in Dublin.
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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by discovolante » Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:32 pm

Fishnut wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:25 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 pm
Also, like the government's last report on institutional racism and the legacy of "the Caribbean experience", it will definitely be massively biased and one-sided, intended as a propaganda exercise only.

If they gave any shits about balance they would have at least mentioned it to Stormont, rather than having it be a project from the Westminster-based Conservative & Unionist party.

The idea of an "official history" is pretty stupid anyway, no?

ETA, lmfao at the idea of starting in the 1960s. Why do right-wingers never understand the importance of context?
You've made a load of points I meant to make but forgot about as I was distracted transcribing the articles. I honestly couldn't believe it when I saw that it was only going to start in the 1960s. Maybe 1860s if you don't want to go all the way back to Cromwell but I don't know how you can start your 'official history' decades after the Easter Uprising, the 1918 election and the Irish War of Independence. It's symbolic of how little most English people know about Irish history. I have to admit to being among them, though I did learn a bit more while living in Dublin.
Unless I'm remembering wrongly (entirely possible) the Blair and Brown doc me and Señor von Laté dates it from the 1980s. In fairness it was a brief introduction to the more important tale of how Tony Blair single handedly saved Northern Ireland and the Union.
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Re: UK government plans an "official history" of the Troubles

Post by IvanV » Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm

Other Official Histories.

The rough conclusion this short list following might suggest is that such official histories can be widely believed, even when they are easy to discredit. The successful ones, like conspiracy theories, tell a story people want to believe. There may be more suspicion when an official history is hard to discredit, but doesn't recite what many people want to believe.

So I can believe that an Official History of the Troubles, written as many mainland British in their national pride would like to believe it, would actually become some kind of a widely accepted version, but only on the eastern side of the Irish Sea. It would doubtless bare our souls as to how evil the British have been to the Irish for most of past millenium. But the various brief exposures of the utter wrong-headedness, and perfidiousness of the British govt, like bl..dy Sunday, during the actual Troubles will doubtless come out as isolated "mistakes". Because the alternative is not consistent with the national epic of the British.

---

The Gunpowder Plot. It is common to refer to an Official Version, even the UK Parliament Website mentions it, though I'm not sure precisely what documents it entails. I think most British people do take the standard recitation broadly as fact. But my history teacher at (high) school told us, as fact, it was a whitewash. He then spun us one of the popular conspiracy theories. He was sensible enough to say this was just one possibility, and not advisable to write it as fact in an exam, or indeed take any notes on it in our exercise book. I was later surprised to discover that such versions were not at all popular with reputable scholars. It did at least introduce me to the concept of source criticism. The confessions were doubtless extracted by torture, and so do not meet modern evidential standards. There are reasonable doubts about the authenticity of the Monteagle Letter, even UK Parliament mentions that. So doubtless the standard version cannot be relied upon. But the conspiracy theories are even less likely.

JFK Assassination. The Warren Commission. Most Americans don't believe it, nowhere near. So the US Govt has revisited it at least twice to try and get some kind of supportable consensus, but with little success. Even I used to find it very hard to believe that Jack Ruby acted alone. But some kind person on the predecessor of this forum explained the logical error I was making.

The Official History of the Communist Party of China. Nasty things happen to people in China if they dare to question it in ways that get attention. But such repressive methods are actually quite successful, in their own terms, and I think most Chinese people do broadly believe it. From my own experience of trying to discuss it with recent immigrants from mainland China, they have denied the modern western histories as implausible. In the early days, the Party even managed to get seemingly reputable but sympathetic western historians in to regurgitate the official version back to the world, so even we widely believed it. It is only more recently that imperialist degenerate historians like Frank Dikotter have dared to examine the official archives during periods of relative glaznost, and thus demonstrated that it really wasn't like that at all.

The History of the Kings of Britain by Geoffrey of Monmouth (ca 1136). Was generally accepted as accurate history for about 400 years. We now realise that Britain was not founded by Brutus the Trojan, King Lear is made up, and almost all of the book is on that level.

Kebra Negast. Meanwhile over in Ethiopia/Eritrea, their own 14th century own national epic whose title translates to roughly the same as Geoffrey's, is more or less taken as truth by most highland Ethiopians and Eritreans. Numismatic evidence finds no overlap between rulers that there is actual evidence for, and those mentioned in the work.

The usual history as taught in British schools in more modern times. There have been various TV programs in recent years showing how completely wrong are the standard recitations of key defining points in our national history like the Spanish Armada, etc. So the bastards did succeed in foisting lying official versions on us all even in much more recent times.

Religious texts, those that contain "history". 'Nuff said.

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