Scrutable

I assume he was shielded by the seat and headrest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59291095

I wondered if the cab had a partition which helped shield him. But more than that I'm thinking home made explosive which didn't detonate as intended. It seems incredible he could literally walk away, but although it blasted the windows out spectacularly, there wasn't visible bending or tearing of the bodywork. Cars which have had bombs go off in them tend to look like torn, twisted wreckage.

I've never been in an explosion myself but I've seen them in movies. This isn't a real explosion. It's a firework.

What do people think to the theory that bomb making guides on extremist websites are now 99.9% written by MI5 and the other security agencies? Designed to seem right, but fail to detonate properly in practice?

Well if we're speculating, what do people think of the theory that it went off early, just before 11 o'clock; and that an awful lot of people in the reception area (where it may have been intended to go off during the silence) had a very lucky escape?

lpm wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:20 pm

What do people think to the theory that bomb making guides on extremist websites are now 99.9% written by MI5 and the other security agencies? Designed to seem right, but fail to detonate properly in practice?

I don't think you need to do that. There's sufficient detailed care and attention required that you need to do several practice runs first, unless you are a very good practical chemist/engineer/physicist with a bit of related experience. Making potentially explosive substances isn't that difficult, but detonating them correctly is hard.

Practice runs are plausible if you're in a training camp in the middle east or something, but not if you're downloading a guide from the internet.

The IRA, Islamist (e.g. WTC bombing) and the unibomber did get improvised explosives right in western countries, but had training and practice opportunities.

I've seen one news website (can't find link, sorry) suggest it might have been an incendiary. So it wouldn't need a big blast, just enough to ignite and scatter fuel.

But I agree with dyqik, it's very plausible that they just didn't have the experience and practical skills to make an effective bomb.

The news footage which shows the car and large amounts of flame would seem to suggest that the bomb was either poorly designed/constructed or was intended to be a firebomb/Molotov cocktail type of device.

An explosive device which creates an explosion big enough to blow out the windows, but then leaves fuel to create a fire is typically a Hollywood special effect!

I can imagine that a Molotov cocktail type of device, if thrown into the lobby of a hospital, would cause significant confusion and damage. It's a simple, low-tech way of causing confusion and a bit of terror. I can also imagine that if the bomber wanted to throw it with little time for security/by-standers to react, then they may try to light the fuse while still in the taxi. And if you don't know fuses/had little training/no practice then you could then easily get the timing wrong.

Good point, Martin. I'd reckon "both of the above" is much more likely than "neither of the above".

A little bit of me wonders whether terrorists who rely on getting a taxi to their chosen target, and manage to reveal their bomb to the driver en-route, might not be the best at bomb-making either.

I haven't seen anything in the news coverage about how the driver knew there was a bomb. Did the bomber show it to him or was it just a lucky spot?

The early reports said the driver had spotted the device and locked the doors. I'm not sure now that that is accurate.

dccarm wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:46 am

The early reports said the driver had spotted the device and locked the doors. I'm not sure now that that is accurate.

I think its very reasonable to assume that the driver noticed something. Taxi drivers don't usually leap out of their car and leave a passenger inside.

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:51 am

dccarm wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:46 am

The early reports said the driver had spotted the device and locked the doors. I'm not sure now that that is accurate.

I think its very reasonable to assume that the driver noticed something. Taxi drivers don't usually leap out of their car and leave a passenger inside.

The device had already exploded - I think the driver would have noticed!
As for the doors being locked, this isn't uncommon with taxis to stop 'bolters' who run off before paying. Though it doesn't rule out a specific locking of the doors if the driver had seen something suspicious

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:55 am

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:51 am

dccarm wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:46 am

The early reports said the driver had spotted the device and locked the doors. I'm not sure now that that is accurate.

I think its very reasonable to assume that the driver noticed something. Taxi drivers don't usually leap out of their car and leave a passenger inside.

The device had already exploded - I think the driver would have noticed!
As for the doors being locked, this isn't uncommon with taxis to stop 'bolters' who run off before paying. Though it doesn't rule out a specific locking of the doors if the driver had seen something suspicious

Ah Ok, I thought the driver got out before it went up.

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:11 pm

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:55 am

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:51 am

I think its very reasonable to assume that the driver noticed something. Taxi drivers don't usually leap out of their car and leave a passenger inside.

The device had already exploded - I think the driver would have noticed!
As for the doors being locked, this isn't uncommon with taxis to stop 'bolters' who run off before paying. Though it doesn't rule out a specific locking of the doors if the driver had seen something suspicious

Ah Ok, I thought the driver got out before it went up.

The video in the original link makes it clear - worth watching - Maybe I should have called the thread "How the f.ck did the driver get out of that!"

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:21 pm

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:11 pm

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:55 am

The device had already exploded - I think the driver would have noticed!
As for the doors being locked, this isn't uncommon with taxis to stop 'bolters' who run off before paying. Though it doesn't rule out a specific locking of the doors if the driver had seen something suspicious

Ah Ok, I thought the driver got out before it went up.

The video in the original link makes it clear - worth watching - Maybe I should have called the thread "How the f.ck did the driver get out of that!"

bl..dy hell. Those people running towards the car were either very brave or very stupid as there could have been secondary explosions.

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:21 pm

Woodchopper wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:11 pm

Gfamily wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:55 am

The device had already exploded - I think the driver would have noticed!
As for the doors being locked, this isn't uncommon with taxis to stop 'bolters' who run off before paying. Though it doesn't rule out a specific locking of the doors if the driver had seen something suspicious

Ah Ok, I thought the driver got out before it went up.

The video in the original link makes it clear - worth watching - Maybe I should have called the thread "How the f.ck did the driver get out of that!"

Yes, indeed. The one in the link didn't work for me. But I found another copy.

Tessa K wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:49 am

I haven't seen anything in the news coverage about how the driver knew there was a bomb. Did the bomber show it to him or was it just a lucky spot?

I’ve seen posts shared on Facebook by someone claiming to be a mate of the taxi driver, saying how brave he was and that he locked the doors to keep the bomber in when he realised there was a bomb. This story slightly undermined by the fact the bomb went off before the car stopped moving.

Grumble wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:22 pm

Tessa K wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:49 am

I haven't seen anything in the news coverage about how the driver knew there was a bomb. Did the bomber show it to him or was it just a lucky spot?

I’ve seen posts shared on Facebook by someone claiming to be a mate of the taxi driver, saying how brave he was and that he locked the doors to keep the bomber in when he realised there was a bomb. This story slightly undermined by the fact the bomb went off before the car stopped moving.

Yes, there were a lot of those stories going round when it first happened. That's what misled me.

Tessa K wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:58 pm

bl..dy hell. Those people running towards the car were either very brave or very stupid as there could have been secondary explosions.

I am reminded of the Glasgow Airport incident where people ran towards the intending-to-be suicide bomber - some of them to give him a good kicking!

Martin_B wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:30 am

Tessa K wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:58 pm

bl..dy hell. Those people running towards the car were either very brave or very stupid as there could have been secondary explosions.

I am reminded of the Glasgow Airport incident where people ran towards the intending-to-be suicide bomber - some of them to give him a good kicking!

There are always brave people who run into danger like the ones who tackled the knifeman in London Bridge attack. I wonder what the difference is between them and the rest of us who would run away (or freeze)? No doubt they don't weigh up the danger, it's an instinctive reaction, but it's interesting and I wonder what they are like in their lives generally.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50608315

The narrative requires us to act this way. We are shaped by fiction. From a young age we are taught what a hero is and what a hero does and why we must be a hero.

Everyone knows you will get to the man trapped in the burning car and drag him to safety just before there's a spectacular explosion.

lpm wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:20 am

The narrative requires us to act this way. We are shaped by fiction. From a young age we are taught what a hero is and what a hero does and why we must be a hero.

Everyone knows you will get to the man trapped in the burning car and drag him to safety just before there's a spectacular explosion.

Ugh...this.

I witnessed a car rolling over in front of me when I was riding my motorbike on the M54.

I stopped and did my risk assessment before starting to approach the car. There was a mysterious liquid pooling under it, but it turned out to be coolant.

People stopped *on both sides of the carriageway* and started sprinting towards the car - running across from the other hard shoulder whilst cars whizzed past. I had to really shout at people to tell them to stop and pointed to the liquid.

I was wearing my full bike leathers and helmet, so I approached with caution and managed to get the guy out of the car...amazingly with only a small head wound.

People go into lizard mode when things like this happen.

I presume you checked the bloke for spinal injuries before moving him?