Benefits of Brexit for Britain

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sheldrake
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Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:23 pm

Have moved some posts over here from the benefits of Brexit thread

We negotiated better contracts for vaccine delivery than the rest of the EU. I know we could hypothetically have not joined the EU vaccine purchasing programme without leaving the EU, but most EU nations didn't.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:25 pm

Tech startup investment in the UK has done really well since 2016, this is partly a result of our currency devaluation, and partly a result of long-term expectations around lower levels of red tape

https://www.verdict.co.uk/uk-tech-inves ... 20research.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:31 pm

Our immigration criteria are now more meritocratic rather than being skewed towards favouring European background regardless of qualifications.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:37 pm

Trade deals with Australia and Japan (lots of other deals came quicker than pessimissts expected, but they just rollover deals we had as part of the EU, the Aus and Japan deals go further than that).
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:38 pm

We would no longer have to worry about violating EU single market rules if we take steps to prevent tax arbitrage with states like Ireland or Luxembourg (Tories will likely never do this, but Labour could)
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:46 pm

Being able to use GM or GE in food production.

Provided we don't want to export anything to the EU obvs
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:52 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:46 pm
Being able to use GM or GE in food production.

Provided we don't want to export anything to the EU obvs
We can use it for things that are going to be exported outside the EU. Most of our exports already go to non-EU countries, and it's also a faster growing segment.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by plodder » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:34 pm

Ditching CAP is the only one I can think of. The rest of it is trivial or worse than was there before.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:39 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:52 pm
Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:46 pm
Being able to use GM or GE in food production.

Provided we don't want to export anything to the EU obvs
We can use it for things that are going to be exported outside the EU. Most of our exports already go to non-EU countries, and it's also a faster growing segment.
Two of our top three food export markets are in the EU https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/business-ins ... tatistics/
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:45 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:39 pm

Two of our top three food export markets are in the EU https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/business-ins ... tatistics/
For now. The non-EU markets are growing faster and currently account for 47% of food & drink exports according to your source.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:42 pm

plodder wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:34 pm
Ditching CAP is the only one I can think of. The rest of it is trivial or worse than was there before.
Ditching CFP too.

There's certainly scope for improving on EU environmental standards in food production.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:43 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:45 pm
Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:39 pm

Two of our top three food export markets are in the EU https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/business-ins ... tatistics/
For now. The non-EU markets are growing faster and currently account for 47% of food & drink exports according to your source.
So losing major export markets, which are our closest neighbours, is a good thing....?
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by plodder » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:44 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:45 pm
Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:39 pm

Two of our top three food export markets are in the EU https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/business-ins ... tatistics/
For now. The non-EU markets are growing faster and currently account for 47% of food & drink exports according to your source.
well yes, clearly exports to the EU are going to be more difficult
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:47 pm

I think we might see improved salaries for "traditional working class" jobs. But we might not.

In general I'd say there are certainly opportunities - the EU is far from perfect. My only brexit-favouring friends are leftists from EU countries.

But I'm afraid to say the folks in charge don't fill me with confidence on that front. They seem to have quite nasty intentions, which are only partly mitigated by their incompetence.

So far I think the UK has seen only relatively minor inconveniences, and little improvement. I'd count the vaccine program as half a point - I think a less brexity government would've made a show of solidarity with the EU. Vaccine independence was a product of Brexit rhetoric. The UK could've unlocked even earlier.

So, much to play for.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:59 pm

plodder wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:44 pm


well yes, clearly exports to the EU are going to be more difficult
They were growing faster for years before we left. Part of the reason is that 'non-EU economic growth' is higher than 'EU economic growth', and has been for years.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:03 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:47 pm
I think we might see improved salaries for "traditional working class" jobs. But we might not.

In general I'd say there are certainly opportunities - the EU is far from perfect. My only brexit-favouring friends are leftists from EU countries.

But I'm afraid to say the folks in charge don't fill me with confidence on that front. They seem to have quite nasty intentions, which are only partly mitigated by their incompetence.

So far I think the UK has seen only relatively minor inconveniences, and little improvement. I'd count the vaccine program as half a point - I think a less brexity government would've made a show of solidarity with the EU. Vaccine independence was a product of Brexit rhetoric. The UK could've unlocked even earlier.

So, much to play for.
We're going to be outside of the EU for much longer than the term of this government. What do you want to use the political independence for that the Tories should but won't?
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:12 pm

Genuine payments for ecosystem services, to replace CAP.

Science led, conservation focused fisheries policy.

Early movement on carbon pricing with a border tax, built into all trade deals.

But take a look at what's happening with sewage in rivers and coasts right now to see what Tory-run environmental policy looks like when there's no longer a risk of enforcement by Brussels. I'll be very surprised to see standards catching up with science, rather than being weakened.

And all of those things would be great for the UK's domestic economy too, at least by the medium term.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:19 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:12 pm
Genuine payments for ecosystem services, to replace CAP.

Science led, conservation focused fisheries policy.

Early movement on carbon pricing with a border tax, built into all trade deals.

But take a look at what's happening with sewage in rivers and coasts right now to see what Tory-run environmental policy looks like when there's no longer a risk of enforcement by Brussels. I'll be very surprised to see standards catching up with science, rather than being weakened.

And all of those things would be great for the UK's domestic economy too, at least by the medium term.
People like you ought to be making Labour focus on these things instead of lamenting 2016
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:26 pm

sheldrake wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:19 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:12 pm
Genuine payments for ecosystem services, to replace CAP.

Science led, conservation focused fisheries policy.

Early movement on carbon pricing with a border tax, built into all trade deals.

But take a look at what's happening with sewage in rivers and coasts right now to see what Tory-run environmental policy looks like when there's no longer a risk of enforcement by Brussels. I'll be very surprised to see standards catching up with science, rather than being weakened.

And all of those things would be great for the UK's domestic economy too, at least by the medium term.
People like you ought to be making Labour focus on these things instead of lamenting 2016
You're right, you know.

If I moved back to the UK I'd consider joining, but as a smug pre-Brexit expat I don't do much lamenting or politicking. I dabble in some Portuguese stuff but mostly just grumble online tbh.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:55 pm

Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:43 pm
sheldrake wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:45 pm
Trinucleus wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:39 pm

Two of our top three food export markets are in the EU https://www.fdf.org.uk/fdf/business-ins ... tatistics/
For now. The non-EU markets are growing faster and currently account for 47% of food & drink exports according to your source.
So losing major export markets, which are our closest neighbours, is a good thing....?
We still export to the EU, and our exports to the EU are higher now than they were in 2016, even whilst we're all still recovering from the economic effects of the pandemic.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/284 ... ade-value/

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/national ... e/june2021

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sti ... 021-07-09/

This stuff tends not to be reported properly by the BBC, Guardian or Independent.

The predictions that most of the pundits in these media sources gave about what would happen to UK->EU trade was misleading both before we left and since.

How can this be? the extra administrative burdens are nowhere near as expensive or difficult as remain-media continue to claim they are, and are more than compensated for by normal economic growth and our 2016 currency devaluation. We are now also free to make trade deals with other, faster growing partners that we couldn't make whilst part of the EU.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:21 am

“Chief Operating Officer of Nissan” wrote: Brexit for Nissan is a positive. We’ll take this opportunity to redefine the auto industry in the UK. In certain conditions, our competitiveness is improved. For some of the cases, it is at par. It depends on which car, but competitiveness is definitely improved in electric vehicles.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:36 am

We can ban employers from discriminating against women who want to wear the hijab

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/19/eur ... dress-work
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Lew Dolby » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:54 am

sheldrake wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:36 am
We can ban employers from discriminating against women who want to wear the hijab
But we won't. In some jobs such wear would be a safety consideration.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:07 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:54 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:36 am
We can ban employers from discriminating against women who want to wear the hijab
But we won't. In some jobs such wear would be a safety consideration.
Such as?

I also don't think genuine safety issues would qualify as discrimination.


That said, I don't think the EU ruling means that member states have to ban face coverings etc. It just means that EU legislation doesn't always protect workers from employers' bans.

Still a disappointing ruling from the EU, though. A worker's right to religious freedom should trump a client's preference for them not to have any.
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Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by sheldrake » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:09 pm

Lew Dolby wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:54 am
sheldrake wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:36 am
We can ban employers from discriminating against women who want to wear the hijab
But we won't. In some jobs such wear would be a safety consideration.
Some EU countries laws go beyond that. French Burka ban for example.
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