Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
WFJ
Snowbonk
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:54 am

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by WFJ » Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm

monkey wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:04 pm
WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:55 pm
lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:28 pm

So the benefit is dubious, even before you get into safety aspects. It's merely an assumption that if the EU put in a regulation, that regulation must be wrong and there must be benefits from ignoring it.
Especially dumb considering the UK generally has the strictest rules on unlicensed powered vehicles. Segways have never been allowed in the UK, as far as I'm aware, and ebikes and e-motor scooters were legalised far later than in the rest of Europe.
Escooters (and other none bike Ethings) aren't properly legal in the UK yet, there's just some trials of share ones about the place, and you need a driving license.
I assumed they'd been legalised by now as I had read there were plans to do it. Surprising it's not been done now the UK is free from the yoke of EU regulations.

monkey
Dorkwood
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by monkey » Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:35 pm

WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm
monkey wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:04 pm
WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:55 pm


Especially dumb considering the UK generally has the strictest rules on unlicensed powered vehicles. Segways have never been allowed in the UK, as far as I'm aware, and ebikes and e-motor scooters were legalised far later than in the rest of Europe.
Escooters (and other none bike Ethings) aren't properly legal in the UK yet, there's just some trials of share ones about the place, and you need a driving license.
I assumed they'd been legalised by now as I had read there were plans to do it. Surprising it's not been done now the UK is free from the yoke of EU regulations.
It should be in the upcoming transport bill. Till then, you have to find one that'll pass an MOT, or stay off road, or grumble and pay a fine if the police are bored.

WFJ
Snowbonk
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:54 am

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by WFJ » Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:55 pm

monkey wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:35 pm
WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm
monkey wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:04 pm


Escooters (and other none bike Ethings) aren't properly legal in the UK yet, there's just some trials of share ones about the place, and you need a driving license.
I assumed they'd been legalised by now as I had read there were plans to do it. Surprising it's not been done now the UK is free from the yoke of EU regulations.
It should be in the upcoming transport bill. Till then, you have to find one that'll pass an MOT, or stay off road, or grumble and pay a fine if the police are bored.
I'm not in the UK. Here in the red-tape encumbered EU you can't walk 25 metres without finding a rental scooter available to anyone with a phone.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 9026
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:03 pm

WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:55 pm
monkey wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:35 pm
WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:14 pm

I assumed they'd been legalised by now as I had read there were plans to do it. Surprising it's not been done now the UK is free from the yoke of EU regulations.
It should be in the upcoming transport bill. Till then, you have to find one that'll pass an MOT, or stay off road, or grumble and pay a fine if the police are bored.
I'm not in the UK. Here in the red-tape encumbered EU you can't walk 25 metres without finding a rental scooter available to anyone with a phone.
Yeah they're all over the f.cking shop in my bit of the technocratic EUSSR too.

Those scooter boys are a f.cking menace. I'd love some red tape to tie them up in.
Tree dwellers leaping out the boughs shouting «Get the paper»
Trunk hugging rebels chucking petals at a detonator

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by shpalman » Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:13 pm

Italy has introduced some rules about e-scooters, including needing a bike helmet when you're on one, since people were getting themselves killed, and they didn't even need to Italexit to do it.
molto tricky

monkey
Dorkwood
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by monkey » Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:19 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:03 pm
WFJ wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:55 pm
monkey wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:35 pm


It should be in the upcoming transport bill. Till then, you have to find one that'll pass an MOT, or stay off road, or grumble and pay a fine if the police are bored.
I'm not in the UK. Here in the red-tape encumbered EU you can't walk 25 metres without finding a rental scooter available to anyone with a phone.
Yeah they're all over the f.cking shop in my bit of the technocratic EUSSR too.

Those scooter boys are a f.cking menace. I'd love some red tape to tie them up in.
I don't mind them, you can use the annoyances to argue for better infrastructure for cyclists like me :)

Probably means fewer car journeys too.

Allo V Psycho
Catbabel
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:18 am

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Allo V Psycho » Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:01 pm

Little waster wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:50 pm
Allo V Psycho wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:00 pm


I've watched the video, but is there a source as to how exactly how Rees Mogg has phrased the Magnificent 9 anywhere? I'm interested in 6, 'shorten medical training', which in the video initially seems to suggest initially relates only to pharmacists and paramedics, but the video then extends to Primary Medical Qualifications. There is an argument about medical training to be made (I had always thought of it as a possible benefit of Brexit, because there was an EU requirement about the length of training which didn't match UK practice very well, and was solved by a fudge). Anyway, I'm reluctant to get into detail until I know exactly what Rees Mogg is suggesting, and my Google skills have not found it so far.

From the Horse's arse mouth https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... les-update

Image
thank you for visiting the swamp for me! Have been working today but perhaps will find time to post about this tomorrow,
Cheers,
AvP

User avatar
Martin_B
Dorkwood
Posts: 1290
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:20 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Martin_B » Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:41 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:01 pm
Little waster wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:59 pm
JQH wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:46 pm

How many Express readers are business owners? Most of them are people who would benefit from workers being treated fairly but they've bought into the idea that people on sick pay are swinging the lead and so support measures that are against their own interests
It's the degree of short-sightedness around #7 which astounds me.

That the Brexit-voter who, on Monday, will clap themselves on the back that the temp worker next to them on their assembly line/office/shop floor is no longer getting the same pay, sick leave or holiday entitlement as them (as if that was a good thing, are you some sort of c.nt?) will, on Tuesday, be wondering why their employer now wants to shift them to onto a temporary contract too.

Baffling! What a completely unexpected turn of events. :?
I may be prejudiced, but I expect that a typical Express reader retired a few years ago.
Sadly Jim Hacker was silent as the readership of the Express:
Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers. The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country; The Times is read by the people who actually do run the country; the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country; the Financial Times is read by people who own the country; the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country, and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?

Bernard: Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.
"My interest is in the future, because I'm going to spend the rest of my life there"

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1729
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by tom p » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:31 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:28 pm
Number 5 - faster ebikes - shows how mad the entire project is.

I bought one the other day (I'll post a review on the other thread). It's imported direct from a French factory with the EU's 15 mph/25 kph restriction. The entire build, from motor to frame to chain, is designed around 25 kph. Adding power and torque or whatever it is wouldn't just be a matter of removing a speed limiter. No idea what re-engineering of the motor Bosch would need to do.

And as usual, EU manufacturers won't be designing a separate product just for one mad country. UK manufacturers won't design a product they can't sell to the EU.

Meanwhile, having electric assist over 15 mph is pointless. The bike goes faster than that, if you pedal hard or go downhill. It just doesn't have any boost. What counts more is that the motor keeps you going up a hill at 15 mph and you get a lot of acceleration out of traffic lights. If it's a mountain ebike then you don't want to be going faster on rough tracks anyway.

So the benefit is dubious, even before you get into safety aspects. It's merely an assumption that if the EU put in a regulation, that regulation must be wrong and there must be benefits from ignoring it.
You can already get faster e-bikes in the EU. In NL they are called 'speed pedelecs', and can go up to 45kph assisting your pedalling. You have to wear a bike helmet while riding one and you need a number plate on the back too.
They are very definitely differently engineered compared to normal electric bikes.
They are far from pointless if your commute is, like mine, >60km each way. I am often overtaken by the buggers and rather wish i had one, since it would take my journey time down from ~2hrs to about 1h20; however I'm not gonna spunk 5 grand on one until at least I've finished paying off my electric assist motor i had added to my racer.

User avatar
Trinucleus
Catbabel
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Trinucleus » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:34 pm

Martin_B wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:41 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:01 pm
Little waster wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:59 pm


It's the degree of short-sightedness around #7 which astounds me.

That the Brexit-voter who, on Monday, will clap themselves on the back that the temp worker next to them on their assembly line/office/shop floor is no longer getting the same pay, sick leave or holiday entitlement as them (as if that was a good thing, are you some sort of c.nt?) will, on Tuesday, be wondering why their employer now wants to shift them to onto a temporary contract too.

Baffling! What a completely unexpected turn of events. :?
I may be prejudiced, but I expect that a typical Express reader retired a few years ago.
Sadly Jim Hacker was silent as the readership of the Express:
Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers. The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country; The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country; The Times is read by the people who actually do run the country; the Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country; the Financial Times is read by people who own the country; the Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country, and the Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.

Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?

Bernard: Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.
I thought the saying was 'Telegraph readers want the country to be run like it used to be and Express readers think it still is' ( or they might have been the other way round)

User avatar
lpm
Light of Blast
Posts: 4656
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by lpm » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:36 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:31 pm
You can already get faster e-bikes in the EU. In NL they are called 'speed pedelecs', and can go up to 45kph assisting your pedalling. You have to wear a bike helmet while riding one and you need a number plate on the back too.
They are very definitely differently engineered compared to normal electric bikes.
They are far from pointless if your commute is, like mine, >60km each way. I am often overtaken by the buggers and rather wish i had one, since it would take my journey time down from ~2hrs to about 1h20; however I'm not gonna spunk 5 grand on one until at least I've finished paying off my electric assist motor i had added to my racer.
You can get those in the UK too. Just that they fall into moped category and you need helmet, reg and insurance.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
bjn
After Pie
Posts: 1995
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:58 pm
Location: London

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by bjn » Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:51 pm

I can imagine the outrage from the Mail et al when some teen takes out an OAP on a souped up unlicensed e-bike.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1729
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by tom p » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:16 pm

lpm wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 2:28 pm
Number 5 - faster ebikes - shows how mad the entire project is.

I bought one the other day (I'll post a review on the other thread). It's imported direct from a French factory with the EU's 15 mph/25 kph restriction. The entire build, from motor to frame to chain, is designed around 25 kph. Adding power and torque or whatever it is wouldn't just be a matter of removing a speed limiter. No idea what re-engineering of the motor Bosch would need to do.

And as usual, EU manufacturers won't be designing a separate product just for one mad country. UK manufacturers won't design a product they can't sell to the EU.

Meanwhile, having electric assist over 15 mph is pointless. The bike goes faster than that, if you pedal hard or go downhill. It just doesn't have any boost. What counts more is that the motor keeps you going up a hill at 15 mph and you get a lot of acceleration out of traffic lights. If it's a mountain ebike then you don't want to be going faster on rough tracks anyway.

So the benefit is dubious, even before you get into safety aspects. It's merely an assumption that if the EU put in a regulation, that regulation must be wrong and there must be benefits from ignoring it.
Just thinking about it - if the speed limit were increased a little, say 5mph, then it probably wouldn't need much, if any, amendments to the bikes; however there would need to be a change to the software. That should be pretty easy though, since ebikes come with a range of wheel sizes and have to be able to adjust the permitted rpm, which is used as a proxy for speed in many ebikes

User avatar
Gfamily
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3979
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Gfamily » Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:17 pm

bjn wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:51 pm
I can imagine the outrage from the Mail et al when some teen takes out an OAP on a souped up unlicensed e-bike.
No doubt they'll blame it on 'green loving tree huggers' and their war on the motorist - who hardly ever take out OAPs
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
jaap
Snowbonk
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:05 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by jaap » Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:16 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:16 pm
Just thinking about it - if the speed limit were increased a little, say 5mph, then it probably wouldn't need much, if any, amendments to the bikes; however there would need to be a change to the software. That should be pretty easy though, since ebikes come with a range of wheel sizes and have to be able to adjust the permitted rpm, which is used as a proxy for speed in many ebikes
There was an item on the Dutch news a two weeks ago about the fact that lots of people are apparently getting their ebikes reprogrammed to have a higher (or no) speed limit. It is not illegal here to do this or to own such a bike, though it is illegal to ride such a bike on public roads and bike lanes.
Last edited by jaap on Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1729
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by tom p » Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:32 pm

jaap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:16 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:16 pm
Just thinking about it - if the speed limit were increased a little, say 5mph, then it probably wouldn't need much, if any, amendments to the bikes; however there would need to be a change to the software. That should be pretty easy though, since ebikes come with a range of wheel sizes and have to be able to adjust the permitted rpm, which is used as a proxy for speed in many ebikes
There was an item on the Dutch news a two weeks ago about the fact that lots of people are apparently getting their ebikes reprogrammed to have a higher (or no) speed limit. It is not illegal here to do this or to own such a bike, though it is illegal to ride such a bike on public roads and bike lanes.
I wonder where they are getting that done. I wonder purely from academic interest, and not at all because the dealer who sorted my motor pretended not to hear me when i asked if it would be possible to put a slightly smaller wheel size into the setup in order to increase the max speed at which the motor would cut out.

User avatar
jaap
Snowbonk
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:05 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by jaap » Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:29 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:32 pm
jaap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:16 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:16 pm
Just thinking about it - if the speed limit were increased a little, say 5mph, then it probably wouldn't need much, if any, amendments to the bikes; however there would need to be a change to the software. That should be pretty easy though, since ebikes come with a range of wheel sizes and have to be able to adjust the permitted rpm, which is used as a proxy for speed in many ebikes
There was an item on the Dutch news a two weeks ago about the fact that lots of people are apparently getting their ebikes reprogrammed to have a higher (or no) speed limit. It is not illegal here to do this or to own such a bike, though it is illegal to ride such a bike on public roads and bike lanes.
I wonder where they are getting that done. I wonder purely from academic interest, and not at all because the dealer who sorted my motor pretended not to hear me when i asked if it would be possible to put a slightly smaller wheel size into the setup in order to increase the max speed at which the motor would cut out.
They interviewed some young tech student who was doing it for a bit of extra money on the side.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1729
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by tom p » Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:29 am

jaap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:29 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:32 pm
jaap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:16 pm


There was an item on the Dutch news a two weeks ago about the fact that lots of people are apparently getting their ebikes reprogrammed to have a higher (or no) speed limit. It is not illegal here to do this or to own such a bike, though it is illegal to ride such a bike on public roads and bike lanes.
I wonder where they are getting that done. I wonder purely from academic interest, and not at all because the dealer who sorted my motor pretended not to hear me when i asked if it would be possible to put a slightly smaller wheel size into the setup in order to increase the max speed at which the motor would cut out.
They interviewed some young tech student who was doing it for a bit of extra money on the side.
Well, having crashed and f.cked my thumb up a little bit this morning, I think I'll stick to what I have, rather than risk worse crashes in the future. I f.cking hate leaf mulch

User avatar
TimW
Snowbonk
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:27 pm

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by TimW » Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:05 am

More great news: we will retain our freedom to buy phones with assorted different types of charger.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -chargers/

User avatar
Trinucleus
Catbabel
Posts: 760
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:38 am

TimW wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:05 am
More great news: we will retain our freedom to buy phones with assorted different types of charger.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -chargers/
And not to worry about having to export anything we manufacture to the EU

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 7055
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by shpalman » Thu Jun 09, 2022 11:44 am

TimW wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 9:05 am
More great news: we will retain our freedom to buy phones with assorted different types of charger.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... -chargers/
That's not a benefit. There's already a "Poor Brexit Outcomes" thread.
molto tricky

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3881
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by jimbob » Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:59 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:29 am
jaap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:29 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 5:32 pm

I wonder where they are getting that done. I wonder purely from academic interest, and not at all because the dealer who sorted my motor pretended not to hear me when i asked if it would be possible to put a slightly smaller wheel size into the setup in order to increase the max speed at which the motor would cut out.
They interviewed some young tech student who was doing it for a bit of extra money on the side.
Well, having crashed and f.cked my thumb up a little bit this morning, I think I'll stick to what I have, rather than risk worse crashes in the future. I f.cking hate leaf mulch
Tedious, hope it doesn't hurt for too long
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1729
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by tom p » Thu Jun 09, 2022 2:05 pm

jimbob wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 12:59 pm
tom p wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:29 am
jaap wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:29 pm


They interviewed some young tech student who was doing it for a bit of extra money on the side.
Well, having crashed and f.cked my thumb up a little bit this morning, I think I'll stick to what I have, rather than risk worse crashes in the future. I f.cking hate leaf mulch
Tedious, hope it doesn't hurt for too long
Cheers. I have to admit it's getting better, a little better all the time

User avatar
Little waster
After Pie
Posts: 2008
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by Little waster » Thu Jun 09, 2022 4:51 pm

One for the "is it really satire if it is just saying exactly what is happening?" file.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3881
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Benefits of Brexit for Britain

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:42 am

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-06-21/gov ... bosses-pay

This should keep the Red Wall happy
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

Post Reply