2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am

Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs. Pretty clear that Johnson is likely to go for the Sense of Proportion defence today. Probably the trickiest one for Starmer today though. Ukraine and cost of living does make it hard to play.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

User avatar
Little waster
After Pie
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Little waster » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:07 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am
Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs. Pretty clear that Johnson is likely to go for the Sense of Proportion defence today. Probably the trickiest one for Starmer today though. Ukraine and cost of living does make it hard to play.
Or the easiest, depending on your approach, some variant of:-

"In these difficult times the British public can not afford to be lead by a scandal-mired and discredited PM who has lost all his authority and is now spending all his energies simply clinging onto power for power's sake. If nothing else, it is his patriotic duty now to step aside and make way for somebody who hasn't lost the confidence of this House and the British electorate.".

Basically a Norway Debate Redux, Davis has already provided the tag-line.

If Starmer wants to be really mischievous he could even publicly call on Sunak to step up and take the reins, just to watch the Tory Front bench implode. 8-)
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

User avatar
Little waster
After Pie
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Little waster » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:10 pm

Little waster wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:07 pm


Basically a Norway Debate Redux, Davis has already provided the tag-line.
Here's Attlee's quote which seemed apt.
They have allowed their loyalty to the Chief Whip to overcome their loyalty to the real needs of the country. I say that the House of Commons must take its full responsibility. I say that there is a widespread feeling in this country, not that we shall lose the war, that we will win the war, but that to win the war, we want different people at the helm from those who have led us into it.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

User avatar
tenchboy
After Pie
Posts: 1891
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:18 pm
Location: Down amongst the potamogeton.

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by tenchboy » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:00 pm

Little waster wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:07 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am
Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs. Pretty clear that Johnson is likely to go for the Sense of Proportion defence today. Probably the trickiest one for Starmer today though. Ukraine and cost of living does make it hard to play.
Or the easiest, depending on your approach, some variant of:-

"In these difficult times the British public can not afford to be lead by a scandal-mired and discredited PM who has lost all his authority and is now spending all his energies simply clinging onto power for power's sake. If nothing else, it is his patriotic duty now to step aside and make way for somebody who hasn't lost the confidence of this House and the British electorate.".

Basically a Norway Debate Redux, Davis has already provided the tag-line.

If Starmer wants to be really mischievous he could even publicly call on Sunak to step up and take the reins, just to watch the Tory Front bench implode. 8-)
Uhuh. Good call. Made me think along the lines of...
" Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the situation in the Ukraine please?"
Followed by, " Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the current dramatic rise in the cost of living please"
And, " Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the reasons for lorries parked nose to tail down the A & M20 please"
And," Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the continued use of our freshwater river and streams being used as private sewers by utility companies that continue to pay out dividends to their shareholders rather than invest in their business please"
etc.
And then invite Liz Truss to...
You know, just for the fun of it.
If you want me Steve, just Snapchat me yeah? You know how to Snapchap me doncha Steve? You just...

User avatar
Trinucleus
Catbabel
Posts: 985
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:45 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Trinucleus » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:04 pm

tenchboy wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:00 pm
Little waster wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:07 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am
Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs. Pretty clear that Johnson is likely to go for the Sense of Proportion defence today. Probably the trickiest one for Starmer today though. Ukraine and cost of living does make it hard to play.
Or the easiest, depending on your approach, some variant of:-

"In these difficult times the British public can not afford to be lead by a scandal-mired and discredited PM who has lost all his authority and is now spending all his energies simply clinging onto power for power's sake. If nothing else, it is his patriotic duty now to step aside and make way for somebody who hasn't lost the confidence of this House and the British electorate.".

Basically a Norway Debate Redux, Davis has already provided the tag-line.

If Starmer wants to be really mischievous he could even publicly call on Sunak to step up and take the reins, just to watch the Tory Front bench implode. 8-)
Uhuh. Good call. Made me think along the lines of...
" Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the situation in the Ukraine please?"
Followed by, " Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the current dramatic rise in the cost of living please"
And, " Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the reasons for lorries parked nose to tail down the A & M20 please"
And," Would the scandal-mired and discredited PM care to give the house an update on the continued use of our freshwater river and streams being used as private sewers by utility companies that continue to pay out dividends to their shareholders rather than invest in their business please"
etc.
And then invite Liz Truss to...
You know, just for the fun of it.
I think that would have been far more effective. Starmer seems to use his questions as an opportunity for a party political broadcast

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:08 pm

1) Real people don't watch PMQ.

2) Except for the 30 seconds that's replayed on News at 10.

3) Starmer gave them material for that extract

4) Johnson didn't give anything positive the news can use, his repetitions of how marvellous the govt is won't work for the news format.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am
Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs.
Forensic.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
Sciolus
Dorkwood
Posts: 1313
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Sciolus » Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:00 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am
Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs.
Forensic.
❤️

User avatar
El Pollo Diablo
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3323
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:41 pm
Location: FBPE

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:39 pm

Sciolus wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:00 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:41 pm
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:58 am
Be interesting today to see how Starmer plays it at PMQs.
Forensic.
❤️
bl..dy forensic, I'd say. Just getting in there, forensically, with his verbal scalpel, forensically cutting away at things.
If truth is many-sided, mendacity is many-tongued

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Grumble » Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:43 pm

He does contrast nicely with the blather of Johnson. Shows Johnson up quite well I think. But I’m not sure the man on the Clapham Omnibus would agree.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
jimbob
Light of Blast
Posts: 5276
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by jimbob » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:14 pm

Johnson's "you're a lawyer not a leader"

Was begging for the "you're neither" rejoinder
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Cardinal Fang
Snowbonk
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:42 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Cardinal Fang » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:58 am

I believe the come back from a Labour MP was along the lines of "I'd rather have a lawyer than a liar", which is getting a lot of FB airing
Image

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by monkey » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:34 am

Johnson should be nice to lawyers, he's probably going to need one soon.

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Grumble » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:49 am

monkey wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:34 am
Johnson should be nice to lawyers, he's probably going to need one soon.
He won’t though, will he. He might have to resign but that’s as far as it will go.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
headshot
Dorkwood
Posts: 1414
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:40 am

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by headshot » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:26 am

Cardinal Fang wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:58 am
I believe the come back from a Labour MP was along the lines of "I'd rather have a lawyer than a liar", which is getting a lot of FB airing
Whoever gave Johnson that line clearly didn't think through the inevitable alliteration comeback. It even rhymes and scans better.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by tom p » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:30 am

Grumble wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:49 am
monkey wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:34 am
Johnson should be nice to lawyers, he's probably going to need one soon.
He won’t though, will he. He might have to resign but that’s as far as it will go.
Misconduct in public office is a serious offence.
And he's a greedy shameless prick. He will surely challenge any fines coming from breach of coronavirus regulations

User avatar
Grumble
Light of Blast
Posts: 4746
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Grumble » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:32 am

tom p wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:30 am
Grumble wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:49 am
monkey wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:34 am
Johnson should be nice to lawyers, he's probably going to need one soon.
He won’t though, will he. He might have to resign but that’s as far as it will go.
Misconduct in public office is a serious offence.
And he's a greedy shameless prick. He will surely challenge any fines coming from breach of coronavirus regulations
And yet I can’t see it happening. I don’t think Prime Ministers have immunity from prosecution in law but I’ll be astonished if we actually see criminal sanctions.
where once I used to scintillate
now I sin till ten past three

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by Bird on a Fire » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:39 am

Depends if whoever comes next really wants to stick the boot in, I expect.
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by tom p » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:20 pm

Given the tories' disastrous poll ratings, I would suspect that someone wanting to cover their arse would worry as much about what the very-possibly-next-but-one PM, a certain former DPP, might think about them not prosecuting when there is clear evidence of malfeasance, as about what Truss, Sunak or some other sub-Johnson scumbag might want.

WFJ
Catbabel
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:54 am

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by WFJ » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:27 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:20 pm
Given the tories' disastrous poll ratings, I would suspect that someone wanting to cover their arse would worry as much about what the very-possibly-next-but-one PM, a certain former DPP, might think about them not prosecuting when there is clear evidence of malfeasance, as about what Truss, Sunak or some other sub-Johnson scumbag might want.
For a misconduct charge? It would be perverse if Johnson was charged with that for the parties. It does not literally mean any misconduct that occurs within a publicly owned office. There may be some fines issued. But even in this case, Johnson would not be first in line to receive one.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by tom p » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:34 pm

WFJ wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:27 pm
tom p wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:20 pm
Given the tories' disastrous poll ratings, I would suspect that someone wanting to cover their arse would worry as much about what the very-possibly-next-but-one PM, a certain former DPP, might think about them not prosecuting when there is clear evidence of malfeasance, as about what Truss, Sunak or some other sub-Johnson scumbag might want.
For a misconduct charge? It would be perverse if Johnson was charged with that for the parties. It does not literally mean any misconduct that occurs within a publicly owned office. There may be some fines issued. But even in this case, Johnson would not be first in line to receive one.
Misconduct in public office is not 'misconduct in a publicly-owned office', it is 'misconduct while you hold a position working for HMG, at any level'.
Yes, there is presumably a higher threshold for such charges than breaching coronavirus regulations; but the prime minister, who has spent ages repeatedly telling the whole country to obey these regulations repeatedly flouting them, encouraging/permitting his staff to repeatedly do so, and then lying about it, is worse than Janice from Ilford having one more person over than is permitted.

WFJ
Catbabel
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:54 am

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by WFJ » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:52 pm

tom p wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:34 pm
WFJ wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:27 pm
tom p wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:20 pm
Given the tories' disastrous poll ratings, I would suspect that someone wanting to cover their arse would worry as much about what the very-possibly-next-but-one PM, a certain former DPP, might think about them not prosecuting when there is clear evidence of malfeasance, as about what Truss, Sunak or some other sub-Johnson scumbag might want.
For a misconduct charge? It would be perverse if Johnson was charged with that for the parties. It does not literally mean any misconduct that occurs within a publicly owned office. There may be some fines issued. But even in this case, Johnson would not be first in line to receive one.
Misconduct in public office is not 'misconduct in a publicly-owned office', it is 'misconduct while you hold a position working for HMG, at any level'.
Yes, there is presumably a higher threshold for such charges than breaching coronavirus regulations; but the prime minister, who has spent ages repeatedly telling the whole country to obey these regulations repeatedly flouting them, encouraging/permitting his staff to repeatedly do so, and then lying about it, is worse than Janice from Ilford having one more person over than is permitted.
It's misconduct while carrying out the duties of your office. The issue with the parties is that they were non-work-related social events, ie not related to his duties, and therefore not allowed.

If the allegations of MPs being threatened with withdrawal of funding for their constituencies if they did not support him personally could be proven, that might result in charges. But even then the fact it would have likely been done by the whips rather than Johnson personally, and b.llsh.t excuses could be made like "oh! I wasn't threatening you. I was just describing what could happen if a destabilised Tory government resulted in Labour getting in", would, I imagine, make it difficult to stick.

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7527
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by dyqik » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:41 pm

WFJ wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:52 pm
tom p wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:34 pm
WFJ wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:27 pm


For a misconduct charge? It would be perverse if Johnson was charged with that for the parties. It does not literally mean any misconduct that occurs within a publicly owned office. There may be some fines issued. But even in this case, Johnson would not be first in line to receive one.
Misconduct in public office is not 'misconduct in a publicly-owned office', it is 'misconduct while you hold a position working for HMG, at any level'.
Yes, there is presumably a higher threshold for such charges than breaching coronavirus regulations; but the prime minister, who has spent ages repeatedly telling the whole country to obey these regulations repeatedly flouting them, encouraging/permitting his staff to repeatedly do so, and then lying about it, is worse than Janice from Ilford having one more person over than is permitted.
It's misconduct while carrying out the duties of your office. The issue with the parties is that they were non-work-related social events, ie not related to his duties, and therefore not allowed.
One of the duties of his (job) office is ensuring the government regulations and law are adhered to by government staff, including in the their (physical) offices. Knowingly allowing flagrant breaches of regulations and laws by your immediate staff can easily be construed as misconduct in public office.

plodder
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:50 pm

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by plodder » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:46 pm

I doubt Johnson is at all worried about the actual criminal or work-related sanctions. It's more about the rabid peasantry on his backbenches and in the constituencies.

User avatar
TopBadger
Catbabel
Posts: 782
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:33 pm
Location: Halfway up

Re: 2020 No. 10 Christmas Party!

Post by TopBadger » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:52 pm

Irrespective of the Grey report or the Met Police handing him a fine, I don't think BoJo is capable of doing the honorable thing. He'll act in his sole interest and cling on for dear life. He's going to have to be forced from office, either by his own benches, or by the electorate the the next GE.

I think a lot of Tory MP's realize he has to go son if they're to maximize the chance of keeping their seats at the next GE, but it would be a disaster if BoJo survived a no confidence vote and they found themselves stuck with another year of this... they're between a rock and a hard place.
You can't polish a turd...
unless its Lion or Osterich poo... http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbus ... -turd.html

Post Reply