Being a sceptic in real life

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Grumble
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by Grumble » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:09 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:31 am
I've never really got why Merkins say "apple cider vinegar" anyway, because it's not even congruent with the other way they f.ck up referring to cider.

They call cider "hard cider", because what they call "cider" is just apple juice. Obviously vinegar has to be made from something alcoholic, so if they had any sense at all it would be "hard cider vinegar".

I've got no idea why it's supposed to be some amazing health product in a way that other apple derivatives / vinegars aren't. But it is a nice vinegar for salad dressings and cooking, or splashed into some fizzy water if I've run out of citrus fruits.
EPD! EPD! Boaf said Apple Cider Vinegar!
A bit churlish

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:11 am

I'll let it off if it's in quote marks, and used with a spirit of mockery.
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plodder
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by plodder » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:35 am

oh f.ck off you whinging waitrose c.nts

:D

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Stephanie
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by Stephanie » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:09 pm

plodder wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:35 am
oh f.ck off you whinging waitrose c.nts

:D
hahaha
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Grumble
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by Grumble » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:24 pm

bagpuss wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:38 am
I pick my battles. If someone is just wittering on about how wonderful something is to me directly then I'll usually just smile and say something equivalent to "that's nice" which generally seems to convey the idea that I'm really not interested while not annoying people too much.

If someone is extolling the virtues of a woo therapy to a wider group then I'd generally do something similar unless it seemed to me that some level of harm might be done. I'm not going to step in if relatively well-off women want to go and try Reiki, but if someone starts getting anti-medicine or pushing something on people a bit harder, or giving bad advice, then I'll say something. For example, when a local friend was in two minds about getting the flu nasal spray for her toddler (it was brand spanking new at the time), and a couple of her friends said they'd decided against for various vague and hand-wavey reasons, I waded in, said I'd had no hesitation in booking the bagkitten in for hers and explained exactly why it was a good idea and the risks were extremely low. It seemed to shut down any further discussion and I was pleased to find out later that friend had decided to get the spray for her daughter. Whether what I said made a difference to her or whether anyone else was convinced, I don't know, but at least I feel happy that I set the record straight.

And I pride myself that I was the first to call bollocks on our local Facebook group the first time I saw someone mention 5G in connection with COVID19 - a pretty early example of the nonsense from what I saw as it was at least another 2 or 3 weeks before I heard any other reference to that particular idiocy.

I try very hard to be non-confrontational and say things in a careful way that is calculated not to annoy or be dismissive but it's hard to always do that and sometimes people are determined to be offended however gently you question their firmly held beliefs. Except for the COVID19/5G thing - I full on laughed at that, it was just so ridiculous.

As for apple cider vinegar - if people want to drink it daily, I don't think it's likely to do them any harm and I'm happy to let them. I've definitely come across one or two other woo-prone runners extolling its virtues but it doesn't seem to be a big thing in my running group - and that's actually a surprise as the demographic profile of the group is very much white middle class women, many of whom have a lot of time on their hands and who do have a distinct tendency towards chia seeds and agave nectar. (I plead guilty to the first bit - as far as "women", but not the rest).

It does distress me how easily people believe the nonsense. Not exactly woo but in the same direction, I used to go to Slimming World and at one meeting we were discussing sugar and how to eat less of it. I swear that almost every single person in that group said something along the lines of "I've swapped to honey" or agave nectar, or coconut sugar or some such and said it with such pride that they'd swapped out something so evil for something so healthy. The shock on their faces when they learned they had exactly the same calories/syn value as sugar. I'd expected one or two people to have made that mistake but it was practically everyone. It was right there and then that I finally realised just how utterly humanity is doomed. :lol:
I think Facebook groups are where I’m most visibly a sceptic, I never used to really but recently with covid misinformation I feel the need to respond to the anti-vaxers. I keep respectful and even-tempered, at least I think I do.

My main socialising is really brass band based, and there isn’t much health chat. One friend did talk about acupuncture and I limited myself to asking about how clean the needles are (new each time apparently). He wasn’t trying to promote it though.
A bit churlish

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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by causan_dux » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:10 pm

Grumble wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:24 pm

My main socialising is really brass band based, and there isn’t much health chat.
Not a surprise that brass band members should be generally healthy.

I have an idea that, in French horn players specifically, where you stick your hand up the back end as far as your wrist, the instrument provides the same anti-arthritic benefits as a copper bracelet.

(I'm going to call this the Chattanooga Cu Cu hypothesis.)

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nekomatic
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by nekomatic » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:11 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:31 am
splashed into some fizzy water
Ooh now there’s an idea. I shall be trying that later.
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through

Allo V Psycho
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by Allo V Psycho » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:04 pm

One of my Facebook friends posted a joke picture including a plastic skeleton, and one of their friends posted a bizarre rant about whether the skeleton was male or female because of course there were only two genders, male or female, and any suggestion of any thing else was a bed-wetter being woke.

I couldn't help responding, and they got madder and madder, which wouldn't help. All my other friends stayed conspicuously silent, so maybe I should have let it go.

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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by nezumi » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:14 pm

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:04 pm
One of my Facebook friends posted a joke picture including a plastic skeleton, and one of their friends posted a bizarre rant about whether the skeleton was male or female because of course there were only two genders, male or female, and any suggestion of any thing else was a bed-wetter being woke.

I couldn't help responding, and they got madder and madder, which wouldn't help. All my other friends stayed conspicuously silent, so maybe I should have let it go.
Did this person reference the number of ribs? Or maybe pelvis size and shape?

No, letting it go would have been a silly idea because I am currently entertained. Any chance of a blow-by-blow account? :D

ETA: Is it worth making some popcorn?
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.

Allo V Psycho
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by Allo V Psycho » Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:49 pm

nezumi wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:14 pm
Allo V Psycho wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:04 pm
One of my Facebook friends posted a joke picture including a plastic skeleton, and one of their friends posted a bizarre rant about whether the skeleton was male or female because of course there were only two genders, male or female, and any suggestion of any thing else was a bed-wetter being woke.

I couldn't help responding, and they got madder and madder, which wouldn't help. All my other friends stayed conspicuously silent, so maybe I should have let it go.
Did this person reference the number of ribs? Or maybe pelvis size and shape?

No, letting it go would have been a silly idea because I am currently entertained. Any chance of a blow-by-blow account? :D

ETA: Is it worth making some popcorn?
Pelvis size and shape. It was all a bit odd. I started off with sex is one thing, gender is another. When they denied outright that this was a thing, that there was only gender and it was exclusively male or female, I posted the UK Govt definitions:
The UK government defines sex as:

referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions

generally male or female

something that is assigned at birth

The UK government defines gender as:

a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth

where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environm ... 2019-02-21

And very strangely, they replied "That's only a pre-print, and hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed journal", which is bizarre. I wondered if there is some kind of bigot playbook, in which 'That's just a pre-print' is recommended as a rejoinder, on the basis that it might confuse the neutral reader, whether or not it relates to the discussion in any way what so ever.

So I moved on to genotype (X and Y chromosomes, and all the non-binary combinations possible), then phenotype, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, true hermaphrodites, etc., then how people may choose to self-identify. Nope, none of it made any difference. There were only two genders, male and female, and the pelvis was the sole determinant.

nezumi
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by nezumi » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:48 pm

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:49 pm
nezumi wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:14 pm
Allo V Psycho wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:04 pm
One of my Facebook friends posted a joke picture including a plastic skeleton, and one of their friends posted a bizarre rant about whether the skeleton was male or female because of course there were only two genders, male or female, and any suggestion of any thing else was a bed-wetter being woke.

I couldn't help responding, and they got madder and madder, which wouldn't help. All my other friends stayed conspicuously silent, so maybe I should have let it go.
Did this person reference the number of ribs? Or maybe pelvis size and shape?

No, letting it go would have been a silly idea because I am currently entertained. Any chance of a blow-by-blow account? :D

ETA: Is it worth making some popcorn?
Pelvis size and shape. It was all a bit odd. I started off with sex is one thing, gender is another. When they denied outright that this was a thing, that there was only gender and it was exclusively male or female, I posted the UK Govt definitions:
The UK government defines sex as:

referring to the biological aspects of an individual as determined by their anatomy, which is produced by their chromosomes, hormones and their interactions

generally male or female

something that is assigned at birth

The UK government defines gender as:

a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity; gender identity is a personal, internal perception of oneself and so the gender category someone identifies with may not match the sex they were assigned at birth

where an individual may see themselves as a man, a woman, as having no gender, or as having a non-binary gender – where people identify as somewhere on a spectrum between man and woman
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environm ... 2019-02-21

And very strangely, they replied "That's only a pre-print, and hasn't been published in a peer-reviewed journal", which is bizarre. I wondered if there is some kind of bigot playbook, in which 'That's just a pre-print' is recommended as a rejoinder, on the basis that it might confuse the neutral reader, whether or not it relates to the discussion in any way what so ever.

So I moved on to genotype (X and Y chromosomes, and all the non-binary combinations possible), then phenotype, Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, true hermaphrodites, etc., then how people may choose to self-identify. Nope, none of it made any difference. There were only two genders, male and female, and the pelvis was the sole determinant.
Just. Wow. Some people see one episode of CSI and that's it...

Worth the popcorn that.
Non fui. Fui. Non sum. Non curo.

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gosling
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by gosling » Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:54 am

Failed miserably last night.

We're moving house so donating stuff to charity including a wheelchair I bought for getting around when I had a foot fracture. Very nice chap arrived to pick it up - his charity fixes up mobility equipment and sends it to charities abroad. We got talking about some of the countries they work with including Kurdistan. When I agreed that the Kurds have a rough deal unless we want them to fight Saddam or ISIS for us, the flood gates opened: Bin Laden isn't dead, he's living in CIA-funded opulence somewhere along with other ex-CIA agents, New World Order, Illuminati etc etc.

I'm afraid I just said thanks for picking up the wheelchair and scuttled off. But I guess if you're that far down the rabbit hole, some random stranger isn't going to change your mind.

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tenchboy
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by tenchboy » Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:40 am

gosling wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:54 am
Failed miserably last night.

We're moving house so donating stuff to charity including a wheelchair I bought for getting around when I had a foot fracture. Very nice chap arrived to pick it up - his charity fixes up mobility equipment and sends it to charities abroad. We got talking about some of the countries they work with including Kurdistan. When I agreed that the Kurds have a rough deal unless we want them to fight Saddam or ISIS for us, the flood gates opened: Bin Laden isn't dead, he's living in CIA-funded opulence somewhere along with other ex-CIA agents, New World Order, Illuminati etc etc.

I'm afraid I just said thanks for picking up the wheelchair and scuttled off. But I guess if you're that far down the rabbit hole, some random stranger isn't going to change your mind.
There are only so many carriages to that buried train you know.

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sTeamTraen
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by sTeamTraen » Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:24 pm

gosling wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:54 am
Bin Laden isn't dead, he's living in CIA-funded opulence somewhere along with other ex-CIA agents, New World Order, Illuminati etc etc.
The Illuminati thing is particularly funny because there is a paper trail leading back to its invention as a hoax in Playboy magazine.
Something something hammer something something nail

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gosling
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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by gosling » Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:53 pm

sTeamTraen wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:24 pm
gosling wrote:
Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:54 am
Bin Laden isn't dead, he's living in CIA-funded opulence somewhere along with other ex-CIA agents, New World Order, Illuminati etc etc.
The Illuminati thing is particularly funny because there is a paper trail leading back to its invention as a hoax in Playboy magazine.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by DJL » Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:38 pm

I have absolutely had to keep my mouth shut as the last couple of days have been woo-central with extended family. I have to pick my battles. I did call out all the casual racism, though.

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Re: Being a sceptic in real life

Post by bagpuss » Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:20 pm

DJL wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 8:38 pm
I have absolutely had to keep my mouth shut as the last couple of days have been woo-central with extended family. I have to pick my battles. I did call out all the casual racism, though.
That sounds wearying.

Thank heavens the vast majority of my family are of sound and rational mind and are generally low in prejudice. I did once have the delight of sitting opposite a thankfully relatively distant* (thankfully because it means we rarely see them) married-in member of Mr Bagpuss's family at a celebratory dinner. When he, out of nowhere, starting ridiculing** the idea that we are all descended from Africans, I started by gaping at him open-mouthed for quite a lot of seconds and then very gently and kindly explained to him that it was in fact a widely accepted fact that humans originated in Africa and that yes, that did include his own ancestors, albeit rather a lot of generations back. He seemed utterly taken aback that someone who seemed on the surface to be "one of us", and a woman at that, would have the temerity to contradict his to-date unchallenged racism and ignorance. Taken aback to the point that he didn't even try to argue with me but just went a bit quiet and seemed to actually be taking in some of what I said.

That was nigh-on 15 years ago now and I've very carefully avoided being anywhere near him ever since, at the few social events that have happened where we've both been present.


*my mother-in-law's cousin's husband - still too close for comfort, really.

**It's hard to explain the exact tone of his ridiculing - he genuinely seemed to believe that the idea of human life originating in Africa was some new and crackpot idea thought up by the PC-gorn-mad brigade to irritate him and his fellow highly-privileged white male expensively-educated brainless twits. He really is as thick as two short planks but, of course, believes himself to be innately superior to anyone who is not a highly-privileged expensively-educated British*** white male.

***actually, probably English, thinking about it - those Scottish, Welsh and Irish types probably aren't up to scratch, are they?

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