The Age of Electric Vehicles

[El Pollo Diablo]

Thanks everyone, some good suggestions there. ID7 looks good, annoying lack of buttons aside. My main question now though, how tf do people actually buy these things? ID7s from last year are selling for £41k, which I absolutely don't have spare, so what are my options?

Also, why in god's name does it cost £41,000 second hand? Is it made of f.cking diamond?

[discovolante]

Thanks everyone, some good suggestions there. ID7 looks good, annoying lack of buttons aside. My main question now though, how tf do people actually buy these things? ID7s from last year are selling for £41k, which I absolutely don't have spare, so what are my options?

Also, why in god's name does it cost £41,000 second hand? Is it made of f.cking diamond?

You could look at leasing for now I suppose, although that has its fairly obvious drawbacks.

[TopBadger]

Also, why in god's name does it cost £41,000 second hand? Is it made of f.cking diamond?

Because it's a VW and middle class snobbery.

The Skoda is based on the same platform, has a much better infotainment system, and a one year old Enyaq with 5k-10k miles on the clock is £23k-£32k on carwow (battery size dependent). I wouldn't touch a VW over a Skoda right now, Skoda make the better cars.

[El Pollo Diablo]

Yeah, I'm hit by the same middle class snobbery. Mrs PD has already said no to Skodas, even though I'm on the same hook as you tbh

[TopBadger]

Yeah, I'm hit by the same middle class snobbery. Mrs PD has already said no to Skodas, even though I'm on the same hook as you tbh

Has Mrs PD driven one? I would urge her to do so before she rules them out - they are so much better than VW's. Actual buttons for controls still in addition to a screen that is much better than VW's.

[FlammableFlower]

One of the things I've liked about my Renault Zoe is that they have largely kept physical buttons for things. The only screen-based stuff is the map/navigation and audio (oh, and the car settings). It's so much nicer to have tactile feedback on when you've pressed/turned something or not.

[insignificant]

The Pug has buttons too, but less range than some of its rivals

Brand attachment is weird; I saw a "Hyper Green" Skoda Octavia VRS estate last week and anyone bothered by its badge is strange

I'm really fussy about a car's appearance, but not its badge

[nekomatic]

My main question now though, how tf do people actually buy these things?

Check if your employer is about to launch a salary sacrifice leasing scheme (or already has done and has kept it a secret from you), it’s changed leasing from something I would never consider into a viable possibility.

[Grumble]

My main question now though, how tf do people actually buy these things?

Check if your employer is about to launch a salary sacrifice leasing scheme (or already has done and has kept it a secret from you), it’s changed leasing from something I would never consider into a viable possibility.

That’s how I’ve got mine, saves a lot on tax but you don’t get the dealer discounts that the likes of MG are doing. Also secondhand prices have come down a lot - during the pandemic EV’s went up in price sometimes.

[Gfamily]

Apparently the Tesla model 3 is really good, so it's annoying that the head of Tesla is a Nazi.

The build quality of Teslas is generally held to be pretty bad.

Up until at least 18 months ago*, the Which? Magazine car buyers guide had a sidebar that was headed "What about Tesla". It explained that the build quality was such an issue that about 20% of Which? survey respondents had to go back to the dealers with their new-buy vehicles (mostly body fit and finish issues), so they didn't rate Teslas at all.
This was well before the other issue.

* I haven't checked more recently

[discovolante]

A fun Guardian story about SUVs: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... king-space

Not that I can talk, we have a *cough* diesel van, OK I think this one is actually technically classed as a car because it is a small van and we sleep in the back of it sometimes. Or at least we will once we've sorted the back out.

[nekomatic]

Up until at least 18 months ago*, the Which? Magazine car buyers guide had a sidebar that was headed "What about Tesla". It explained that the build quality was such an issue that about 20% of Which? survey respondents had to go back to the dealers with their new-buy vehicles (mostly body fit and finish issues), so they didn't rate Teslas at all.
This was well before the other issue.

The Tesla Model 3 was the highest rated car by owners in the 2024 Which? car survey. I think Which? readers are more likely to be middle-aged dads and grumpy pensioners than Elon fanbros. Teslas overall got one out of five stars for reliability of 5-9 year old cars, but the Model 3 managed 3.

[IvanV]

The government has somewhat relaxed the targets/fines for proportion of EVs sold among new cars, though the 100% target for 2030 remains. It seems it is more a kindness to Jaguar-Land Rover and other upmarket carmakers in response to Trump's 25% tariffs on them, as the US usually buys a lot of their production, than a response to broader whinging about those EV targets.

[Sciolus]

The government has somewhat relaxed the targets/fines for proportion of EVs sold among new cars, though the 100% target for 2030 remains. It seems it is more a kindness to Jaguar-Land Rover and other upmarket carmakers in response to Trump's 25% tariffs on them, as the US usually buys a lot of their production, than a response to broader whinging about those EV targets.

I've just been having a chat with a time-traveller from 2033, who told me that in 2028 car manufacturers were well behind their targets because of "exceptional circumstances" and went whining to the government that a target of 100% in 2030 would kill the industry. The government obligingly put the date back to 2035, and the manufacturers are still whining that because of "exceptional circumstances" they can't meet the target and are lobbying for it to be put back to 2040.

[Sciolus]

A fun Guardian story about SUVs: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... king-space

Not that I can talk, we have a *cough* diesel van, OK I think this one is actually technically classed as a car because it is a small van and we sleep in the back of it sometimes. Or at least we will once we've sorted the back out.

https://www.transportenvironment.org/ar ... s-research

New cars in Europe are getting 1 cm wider every two years, on average. That’s according to research by Transport & Environment (T&E) which says the trend will continue due to the rising sales of SUVs – unless lawmakers take action. Around half of new cars sold are already too wide for the minimum on-street parking space in many countries. Paris could be the first major European capital to tackle this trend if citizens endorse higher parking charges for SUVs in a referendum next month.

The average width of new cars expanded to 180.3 cm in the first half of 2023, up from 177.8 cm in 2018, the T&E research finds.[1] Data compiled by the ICCT confirms the same trend in the two decades up to 2020...

Among the top 100 models in 2023, 52% of vehicles sold were too wide for the minimum specified on-street parking space (180 cm) in major cities, including London, Paris and Rome, the research also finds. Off-street parking is now a tight squeeze even for the average new car (180 cm wide), while large luxury SUVs no longer fit. Measuring around 200 cm wide, large luxury SUVs leave too little space for car occupants to get in and out of vehicles in typical off-street spaces (240 cm).

The growth in size is very pronounced among large luxury SUVs: in the most egregious cases, the Land Rover Defender grew by 20.6 cm and the Mercedes X5 by 6 cm in just six years. In 2023, Volvo went 4.1 cm wider with its EX90. Carmakers are using this growth of the largest SUVs to also increase the width of vehicles in the midsize and compact segments...

[Imrael]

Up until at least 18 months ago*, the Which? Magazine car buyers guide had a sidebar that was headed "What about Tesla". It explained that the build quality was such an issue that about 20% of Which? survey respondents had to go back to the dealers with their new-buy vehicles (mostly body fit and finish issues), so they didn't rate Teslas at all.
This was well before the other issue.

The Tesla Model 3 was the highest rated car by owners in the 2024 Which? car survey. I think Which? readers are more likely to be middle-aged dads and grumpy pensioners than Elon fanbros. Teslas overall got one out of five stars for reliability of 5-9 year old cars, but the Model 3 managed 3.

I know its just anecdata, but my model 3 has been pretty decent. Did have one fairly expensive warranty repair. This is a bit of a problem for me, since its 4+ years old and I am thinking about possible replacement but for reasons including (but not limited to) Elon, would rather switch makers. Its proving hard to identify something I'll like as much.

[TopBadger]

Turns out there is another side of EV ownership that I hadn't heard much of before purchase... which is getting the technology between the Car, Charger and Electricity provider to work reliably.

Having got the Zappi charger set up and supposedly talking to Intelligent Octopus we've had two charging mishaps in a total of four charges. So, at the moment at least, it seems whether the car will car will charge as expected is something of a coin toss.

First mishap was where a charge to 80% didn't end overnight and charged the car to 100% (normally something to avoid), continuing charging well after the off peak rate ended. I think the charge only stopped because the car was full. I've since found that the car has an internal % limit which I've since set to 80% so that doesn't happen again (assuming the limit works as advertised anyway).

And another where the overnight scheduled charge didn't fire up at all. Luckily we still have a second diesel car, so my wife was able to use that instead. I think this was a result of me misunderstanding some of the lock screen settings on the Zappi (intended to stop randoms plugging into and operating the charger).

Seems the tech has a way to go yet. As does the general tech on the car... this is our first new car in 10 years and the amount of tech on the car is staggering, great when it works, but quite annoying when it doesn't.

[Grumble]

Turns out there is another side of EV ownership that I hadn't heard much of before purchase... which is getting the technology between the Car, Charger and Electricity provider to work reliably.

Having got the Zappi charger set up and supposedly talking to Intelligent Octopus we've had two charging mishaps in a total of four charges. So, at the moment at least, it seems whether the car will car will charge as expected is something of a coin toss.

First mishap was where a charge to 80% didn't end overnight and charged the car to 100% (normally something to avoid), continuing charging well after the off peak rate ended. I think the charge only stopped because the car was full. I've since found that the car has an internal % limit which I've since set to 80% so that doesn't happen again (assuming the limit works as advertised anyway).

And another where the overnight scheduled charge didn't fire up at all. Luckily we still have a second diesel car, so my wife was able to use that instead. I think this was a result of me misunderstanding some of the lock screen settings on the Zappi (intended to stop randoms plugging into and operating the charger).

Seems the tech has a way to go yet. As does the general tech on the car... this is our first new car in 10 years and the amount of tech on the car is staggering, great when it works, but quite annoying when it doesn't.

Generally speaking only rely on one thing when setting stuff up. I only use the charger for my car, ignoring the settings inside the car entirely. There’s a useful facebook group for my charger and the integration with IOG and this is almost the first piece of advice. I don’t have a zappi, so might be worth you searching for a zappi integration with IOG group.

I charge mine to 100% all the time because it’s not a problem for my battery type.

[TopBadger]

Generally speaking only rely on one thing when setting stuff up. I only use the charger for my car, ignoring the settings inside the car entirely. There’s a useful facebook group for my charger and the integration with IOG and this is almost the first piece of advice. I don’t have a zappi, so might be worth you searching for a zappi integration with IOG group.

I charge mine to 100% all the time because it’s not a problem for my battery type.

Right - note I'm not saying these are insurmountable issues, just that they're a bunch of other things to get to grips with in EV ownership that I hadn't really thought about because I figured all of this would just work straight off the bat, but instead it requires some level of thought into what "charging process control" you're going to use and why.

Especially when I have to make it work for my non-techie wife who doesn't want to deal with three different apps. She just wants to plug the car in and know it will be charged for the morning when she needs it. It's not as simple as it should be.

[Grumble]

Generally speaking only rely on one thing when setting stuff up. I only use the charger for my car, ignoring the settings inside the car entirely. There’s a useful facebook group for my charger and the integration with IOG and this is almost the first piece of advice. I don’t have a zappi, so might be worth you searching for a zappi integration with IOG group.

I charge mine to 100% all the time because it’s not a problem for my battery type.

Right - note I'm not saying these are insurmountable issues, just that they're a bunch of other things to get to grips with in EV ownership that I hadn't really thought about because I figured all of this would just work straight off the bat, but instead it requires some level of thought into what "charging process control" you're going to use and why.

Especially when I have to make it work for my non-techie wife who doesn't want to deal with three different apps. She just wants to plug the car in and know it will be charged for the morning when she needs it. It's not as simple as it should be.

I agree. I was frustrated a couple of times today. First time I’ve had to charge the car on a long drive, didn’t realise I needed to leave the car on while starting the charge. That led to a few false starts. You’re ok to turn the car off after starting charging, but not before. This is not the same as charging at home, but is also the only time I will make this mistake.

Then I arrived at my hotel, was delighted to see some chargers in the car park. Was less delighted to find out they don’t work at all - they don’t even appear on the installer’s app, they are completely dead. Then later tried to charge using a kerbside charger at my brother’s house, could not get that to work at all. Fortunately I don’t really need to charge yet, I was doing it because it was there, not because I needed it.

In a more positive view, when I did get the rapid charging working at the services it was so fast it went past where I needed while I had a butty, went for a wee and bought a flat white.

[dyqik]

I agree. I was frustrated a couple of times today. First time I’ve had to charge the car on a long drive, didn’t realise I needed to leave the car on while starting the charge. That led to a few false starts. You’re ok to turn the car off after starting charging, but not before. This is not the same as charging at home, but is also the only time I will make this mistake.

That sounds like something weirdly specific to that vehicle. Our RAV4 Prime starts charging if it's off when you plug it in, and so did the Chevy Bolt and MG6 I've had as rental cars.

[Grumble]

I agree. I was frustrated a couple of times today. First time I’ve had to charge the car on a long drive, didn’t realise I needed to leave the car on while starting the charge. That led to a few false starts. You’re ok to turn the car off after starting charging, but not before. This is not the same as charging at home, but is also the only time I will make this mistake.

That sounds like something weirdly specific to that vehicle. Our RAV4 Prime starts charging if it's off when you plug it in, and so did the Chevy Bolt and MG6 I've had as rental cars.

Quite possibly, yes. And maybe the reason the kerbside charging didn’t work is that the car was on and not off when I tried. Which is a quirk I just need to learn, I guess.

[Grumble]

I agree. I was frustrated a couple of times today. First time I’ve had to charge the car on a long drive, didn’t realise I needed to leave the car on while starting the charge. That led to a few false starts. You’re ok to turn the car off after starting charging, but not before. This is not the same as charging at home, but is also the only time I will make this mistake.

That sounds like something weirdly specific to that vehicle. Our RAV4 Prime starts charging if it's off when you plug it in, and so did the Chevy Bolt and MG6 I've had as rental cars.

Quite possibly, yes. And maybe the reason the kerbside charging didn’t work is that the car was on and not off when I tried. Which is a quirk I just need to learn, I guess.

Nah, that charger wasn’t working - there was another nearby that was working but it was in a different parking permit zone and so not available to me. Spent more than I needed to on rapid charging coming back home, given that I arrived home with about 52% charge, but it’s been a learning experience.