The Age of Electric Vehicles

[Grumble]

https://cnevpost.com/2022/11/29/sodium- ... catl-exec/
CATL planning sodium ion BEVs this year

[bjn]

The specific energy (ie: kWh/kg) of lithium batteries has been incrementally improving over the years. Unfortunately my google-fu can't find a decent plot of the specific energy of retail batteries over time. The best I could do is recent improvements of research batteries, i.e.: nothing may come of any of them.



Linky...
https://researchinterfaces.com/state-of ... ion-cells/

[jimbob]

Sodium batteries could work great for static storage applications. So all those grid attached peaking shaving and stabilisation batteries should get cheaper, as well as your domestic PowerWall equivalents. This would free lithium to be used where having lightweight batteries is much more important. This should make lithium batteries cheaper for those applications than it would otherwise be if there were no sodium batteries.

A lot of PowerWall type applications are reusing lithium batteries that aren't quite good enough for cars anymore. Maybe going directly to recycling the lithium from an only moderately degraded lithium battery is helpful to the price, but the details might be important there.

Indeed.

One of my colleagues (in a field adjacent to that) told me that when the Nissan Leaf battery has degraded to the 80% of new capacity that is regarded as needing scrapping from the car, it still has an essentially unlimited number of charge-discharge cycles as a home battery supply.

The power (and current)* requirements are so much lower.



*I seem to remember that it's both temperature and current that are important in the dendrites that are the main cause of degradation.

[Woodchopper]

Some passages in an article on people suing Tesla for failures in the autopilot:

We parked at the spot where he hit the police S.U.V. four years earlier [when the Tesla was in self-drive mode]. There was nothing special about the road here: no strange lines, no confusing lane shift, no merge. Just a single lane of traffic running along a row of parked cars. Why the Tesla failed at that moment was a mystery.

Eventually, Key told F.S.D. to take us back to the cafe. As we started our left turn, though, the steering wheel spasmed and the brake pedal juddered. Key muttered a nervous, “OK. … ”

After another moment, the car pulled halfway across the road and stopped. A line of cars was bearing down on our broadside. Key hesitated a second but then quickly took over and completed the turn. “It probably could have then accelerated, but I wasn’t willing to cut it that close,” he said. If he was wrong, of course, there was a good chance that he would have had his second A.I.-caused accident on the same one-mile stretch of road.

[...]

We approached an intersection and tried to make a left — in what turned out to be a repeat of the Laguna Beach scenario. The Tesla started creeping out, trying to get a clearer look at the cars coming from our left. It inched forward, inched forward, until once again we were fully in the lane of traffic. There was nothing stopping the Tesla from accelerating and completing the turn, but instead it just sat there. At the same time, a tricked-out Honda Accord sped toward us, about three seconds away from hitting the driver-side door. Alford quickly took over and punched the accelerator, and we escaped safely. This time, he didn’t say anything.

It was a rough ride home from there. At a standard left turn at a traffic light, the system freaked out and tried to go right. Alford had to take over. And then, as we approached a cloverleaf on-ramp to the highway, the car started to accelerate. To stay on the ramp, we needed to make an arcing right turn; in front of us was a steep drop-off into a construction site with no guard rails. The car showed no sign of turning. We crossed a solid white line, milliseconds away from jumping off the road when, at last, the wheel jerked sharply to the right, and we hugged the road again. This time, F.S.D. had corrected itself, but if it hadn’t, the crash would have surely killed us.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/maga ... -musk.html?

[Woodchopper]

Tesla has big problems with battery production: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/austin-proble ... 07306.html

[Imrael]

Tesla has big problems with battery production: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/austin-proble ... 07306.html

Tesla and production problems are almost a tradition at this point. You could think its because they are pushing innovation barriers or (as I do) that they've worked out over-promising and under-delivering has fewer downsides than up. Will be interesting to see if enough people actually want Cybertruck - hard to judge from a European perspective but it looks like a potential huge white elephant and I really wish they'd cracked on with the smaller model instead.

Saying all this as a happy Model 3 owner who thinks the company overall is somewhat lost, even leaving out Elon-stuff.

[Grumble]

I’m glad that they are prepared to push the tech, and the battery hell thing is a bit overblown. They are buying lots of batteries from other suppliers while they sort the problems. It may be that they never sort out the problems, in which case they’ll use the other suppliers’ batteries for ever.

[TopBadger]

You'd think smaller cheaper ev mobility would be a bigger part of the conversation at this point.

I like the look of this one... https://nimbusev.com/

[Grumble]

You'd think smaller cheaper ev mobility would be a bigger part of the conversation at this point.

I like the look of this one... https://nimbusev.com/

There are quite a few micro mobility options, the Fully Charged Show cover them fairly regularly. The Microlino one looks fun

[Martin_B]

You'd think smaller cheaper ev mobility would be a bigger part of the conversation at this point.

I like the look of this one... https://nimbusev.com/

There's not a lot of room in there. I'm not a big guy (6 foot) and wouldn't claim to have wide shoulders (average, I suppose), but according to their specs I'd have about 1/2" of head room and 2" of shoulder room. That'd lead me to feel cramped after a short while, and many men might simply not fit properly (before anyone accuses me of being male-centric, all the website pictures show men driving, one with a woman in the rear seat).

The range is fine for a city run-about, but the luggage space is a small esky (coolbox) size, so not necessarily suitable for shopping unless you do grocery shopping daily and never buy more than one item of clothing at a time.

[FlammableFlower]

Renault have decided to end the Zoe, which , as an owner, I think is a shame: the last model is/was a nice hatchback, rapid CCS charging and reasonable range. I also thought they had a good amount of traditional buttons/switches. They didn't make stuff touchscreen just "because you can", only that which really suited it did. It was, for me just right.

[nekomatic]

Renault have decided to end the Zoe, which I , as an owner, I think is a shame

Didn’t it get a zero star EuroNCAP rating? One would kind of hope that put a dent in sales.

[TopBadger]

Renault have decided to end the Zoe, which I , as an owner, I think is a shame

Didn’t it get a zero star EuroNCAP rating? One would kind of hope that put a dent in sales.

Apparently so: https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/renault/zoe/44206

Wow... I didn't realize a major manufacturer made a car that performs so poorly. You'd think anything from Renault would be 4+ stars.

[TopBadger]

You'd think smaller cheaper ev mobility would be a bigger part of the conversation at this point.

I like the look of this one... https://nimbusev.com/

There's not a lot of room in there.

[snip]

The range is fine for a city run-about, but the luggage space is a small esky (coolbox) size, so not necessarily suitable for shopping unless you do grocery shopping daily and never buy more than one item of clothing at a time.

Yeah - looks on the small side but probably fine as a daily commuter / station vehicle for the multitude who travel alone with just a backpack / briefcase.

In the same vein as the Zoe... I wonder how safe it will be, particularly in side impacts where there can't be any real crumple zone. Perhaps it's super stiff and designed to just get pushed sideways. You'd hope it features side impact air bags. I'm also wondering what running lights the final product will have as those pictures don't seem to feature headlights or turn lights.

Edit: actually maybe the pictures do feature the lights and they're just very well blended into the body.

[TopBadger]

You'd hope it features side impact air bags.

Actually website suggests only has a front airbag... so that doesn't sound so great.

[nekomatic]

Wow... I didn't realize a major manufacturer made a car that performs so poorly. You'd think anything from Renault would be 4+ stars.

Most other Renaults are. But their Dacia subsidiary doesn’t do so well.

[TopBadger]

Was the Zoe essentially a rebadged Dacia then?

Thinking more on the Nimbus... whilst no side airbags, still better protected than a bike... which is what it's more directly comparable to.

(and yes - I'm supposed to be working today. Working between Xmas and New Year is a pointless exercise)

[Lew Dolby]

But their Dacia subsidiary doesn’t do so well.

I've got a Duster. It's cheap - I don't expect Volvo standards on a cheap car. But five months to get spare parts. !!

Wot I needed wasn't vital so I could still drive it. But FIVE effing months for spares !!!!!!!

[Grumble]

At least one of the five stars these days is for automatic collision avoidance tech, which can lead to phantom braking and cars swerving to avoid crossing lanes which don’t exist, at least if not well implemented. I’d be happier with a 4-star car that let me control it rather than a 5-star car that caused a crash. Probably not much excuse for a 0-star rating though.

[Gfamily]

But their Dacia subsidiary doesn’t do so well.

I've got a Duster. It's cheap - I don't expect Volvo standards on a cheap car. But five months to get spare parts. !!

Wot I needed wasn't vital so I could still drive it. But FIVE effing months for spares !!!!!!!

Long delivery times for car spare parts has been a very common over the last few years.
A friend's husband was delayed in taking delivery of a Motability car - the car was here, but it took 4 months to get the ECU chip to UK

[Al Capone Junior]

As I said, might not be the best use of a solar panel, unless they were stupidly cheap. I used to park a car on the street in suburban Sydney, which would be a better proposition thank parked on a street in urban London.

Solar panels do need to be just as robust as a car roof, being put on roofs and left in the rain and all. Current panels have a lifetime of 25 years or so, which means they are more likely robust than a car roof.

In Texas over 25 years you could reasonably add 2-4 hailstorm with hailstones in the neighborhood of 3/4"+

And if you take that suspiciously open parking spot at 6he VA hospital right up front under a tree, you'll get the entire flock of bird sh.t all at once in one day.

[bob sterman]

https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

During 2013–2017, casualty rates per 100 million miles were 5.16 (95% CI 4.92 to 5.42) for E-HE vehicles and 2.40 (95%CI 2.38 to 2.41) for ICE vehicles, indicating that collisions were twice as likely (RR 2.15; 95% CI 2.05 to 2.26) with E-HE vehicles.

Looks like they need to be made noisier - to protect pedestrians.

[Grumble]

https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

During 2013–2017, casualty rates per 100 million miles were 5.16 (95% CI 4.92 to 5.42) for E-HE vehicles and 2.40 (95%CI 2.38 to 2.41) for ICE vehicles, indicating that collisions were twice as likely (RR 2.15; 95% CI 2.05 to 2.26) with E-HE vehicles.

Looks like they need to be made noisier - to protect pedestrians.

They have been, haven’t they? I think the rules about them emitting noise at low speeds are since 2017.

[IvanV]

https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2024 ... 024-221902

During 2013–2017, casualty rates per 100 million miles were 5.16 (95% CI 4.92 to 5.42) for E-HE vehicles and 2.40 (95%CI 2.38 to 2.41) for ICE vehicles, indicating that collisions were twice as likely (RR 2.15; 95% CI 2.05 to 2.26) with E-HE vehicles.

Looks like they need to be made noisier - to protect pedestrians.

Another factor is that EV/HEs might be that they have longer braking distances. I've been unable to find out whether this is in fact the case, there seems to be some disagreement about it.

Heavier vehicles also cause greater injury to pedestrians when they hit them at a given speed.

[TopBadger]

Rather than worse breaking, another possibility is the improved acceleration...

A pedestrian could see a gap to cross, thinking they had time, but if the oncoming car is an EV it could reach 30mph (or whatever the limit it) faster, meaning it's going faster by the time it sees the pedestrian and needs to stop... so even if the braking is the same, it could be forced to brake from a higher speed than an typical ICE would have reached, and therefore not stop in time, and/or cause more injury.