The Invasion of Ukraine

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
Woodchopper
Light of Blast
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:19 pm

Article on Russian views about Ukrainians as a people and nationality.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-lo ... 1651165024

Striking how similar the attitudes are to English stereotypes of Irish people that were around in the 70s and 80s.

Herainestold
After Pie
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Herainestold » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:45 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:19 pm
Article on Russian views about Ukrainians as a people and nationality.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-lo ... 1651165024

Striking how similar the attitudes are to English stereotypes of Irish people that were around in the 70s and 80s.
At least we haven't invaded Ireland in the last 100 years or so. Although I wouldn't put it past Johnson, if he thought it could boost his flagging popularity and fix the Northern Ireland problem
Masking forever
Putin is a monster, Russian people are not.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 8745
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:27 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:19 pm
Article on Russian views about Ukrainians as a people and nationality.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-lo ... 1651165024

Striking how similar the attitudes are to English stereotypes of Irish people that were around in the 70s and 80s.
The desire to erase a culture is terrifying. Seems to be working in Tibet and no doubt will in Xinjiang. But the West's strong interest in this one makes me hopeful it won't happen to Ukraine.
Tree dwellers leaping out the boughs shouting «Get the paper»
Trunk hugging rebels chucking petals at a detonator

temptar
Clardic Fug
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by temptar » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:59 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:45 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:19 pm
Article on Russian views about Ukrainians as a people and nationality.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-lo ... 1651165024

Striking how similar the attitudes are to English stereotypes of Irish people that were around in the 70s and 80s.
At least we haven't invaded Ireland in the last 100 years or so. Although I wouldn't put it past Johnson, if he thought it could boost his flagging popularity and fix the Northern Ireland problem
This is an extremely poor take.

User avatar
Martin Y
After Pie
Posts: 2463
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:08 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Martin Y » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:03 am

temptar wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:59 pm
This is an extremely poor take.
It's not a great deal better when the Russians deploy it: that they've been threatened by the Europeans for a thousand years (Norman invasion 1000 years ago - check) that the territory in question has historically been part of one country (check again) that we avoid teaching our kids about the terrible famine there under our administration and which we made massively worse (check) and that they use the same language even though it faced suppression after separation (check again). Surely if the British now invade Ireland to free it from EU oppression we will similarly be welcomed as liberators?

temptar
Clardic Fug
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by temptar » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:39 pm

Well a strange number of Brexit supporters, etc, etc, etc.

I would recommend taking a look at the trade war which was quite a bit less than 100 years ago before at leasting Ireland in the context of the Ukraine. Britain’s colonial past is not superedifying and the effects are still felt in a lot of parts of the world including in Northern Ireland.

That being said, in the context, only the utterly deluded would see Russia as liberators in this mess. Recommending the Ukrainian population gives up to prevent further loss of life is deeply, deeply cowardly.

User avatar
Stranger Mouse
Dorkwood
Posts: 1234
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:23 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:55 pm

Angelina Jolie arrives in Lviv. My initial reaction was disapproval but I reassessed when I realised she was there in her capacity as envoy for UNHCR. With a bit of luck it will also help stop the general public getting bored with the war

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-61286258
A caterpillar does all the work but the butterfly gets all the publicity.

EACLucifer
After Pie
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Mon May 02, 2022 8:44 am

f.ck Orban

monkey
Dorkwood
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by monkey » Mon May 02, 2022 2:32 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 8:44 am
f.ck Orban
There are many reasons you might say this. Is there something in particular you have said it today? I couldn't find anything with my brief google.

User avatar
Gfamily
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3811
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Gfamily » Mon May 02, 2022 2:56 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 2:32 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 8:44 am
f.ck Orban
There are many reasons you might say this. Is there something in particular you have said it today? I couldn't find anything with my brief google.
I assume the reports that Orban has said that Hungary would veto any EU call to boycott Russian oil/gas.
The link I've seen is from the Express, so I'll spare you a link.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

monkey
Dorkwood
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by monkey » Mon May 02, 2022 3:15 pm

Gfamily wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 2:56 pm
monkey wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 2:32 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 8:44 am
f.ck Orban
There are many reasons you might say this. Is there something in particular you have said it today? I couldn't find anything with my brief google.
I assume the reports that Orban has said that Hungary would veto any EU call to boycott Russian oil/gas.
The link I've seen is from the Express, so I'll spare you a link.
Ta. I found a story with more specific search terms (non express clicky). It still seems that the story is not getting much coverage though, which I find a bit odd to be honest.

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 8745
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon May 02, 2022 5:40 pm

I think it was always obvious that that would happen, since his re-election.

Odd that the EU didn't see it coming a mile off and come up with some alternative plan.
Tree dwellers leaping out the boughs shouting «Get the paper»
Trunk hugging rebels chucking petals at a detonator

User avatar
JQH
After Pie
Posts: 1801
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by JQH » Mon May 02, 2022 5:49 pm

monkey wrote:
Mon May 02, 2022 3:15 pm

Ta. I found a story with more specific search terms (non express clicky). It still seems that the story is not getting much coverage though, which I find a bit odd to be honest.
You'd almost think the right wing press didn't want people to know that Brussels cannot in fact tell member states what to do.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
Woodchopper
Light of Blast
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Tue May 03, 2022 7:18 pm


Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., noted on the Senate floor last week the roughly 5,000 javelin missiles that the Biden administration has sent to Ukraine amount to one-third of the U.S. stockpiles. The U.S. has also sent more than 1,400 stinger anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine, which represents a quarter of its stockpiles.

“This is a wake-up call, and not just about our ability to support the current fight,” said McConnell. “Ukraine’s expenditure rate of critical munitions should cause us to question whether our own wartime requirements for weapons systems and munitions are sufficient.”
“This would be less of a problem if we had a robust defense industrial base to quickly refill our armories,” he added. “But defense manufacturers have admitted that the production lines for some critical components have dried up and it could be years before they could replace weapons we’ve sent to Ukraine.”
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... munitions/

User avatar
headshot
Dorkwood
Posts: 990
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:40 am

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by headshot » Tue May 03, 2022 9:06 pm

I know Russia jumped the shark a while back…but accusing Israel of supporting Nazis is quite the take.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -row-grows
Russia has accused Israel of supporting the “neo-Nazi regime” in Kyiv as it escalates a diplomatic row with one of the few close US allies that decided not to join in sanctions against the Kremlin or send lethal military aid to Ukraine.

The dispute over remarks by Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, who said in an interview that Adolf Hitler “had Jewish blood” and that the “most rabid antisemites tend to be Jews”, has threatened to unsettle Israel’s careful position over Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Allo V Psycho
Catbabel
Posts: 620
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:18 am

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Allo V Psycho » Wed May 04, 2022 9:33 am

The Pope says that Nato was 'barking at Russia's door' and that this may have caused the war, and that he is unsure whether other countries should supply weapons to Ukraine.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia ... xNoHxJPQFs

I hear this is causing consternation in Poland where they adhere strongly to Catholic Church and the pope but loathe the Russians.

EACLucifer
After Pie
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Wed May 04, 2022 11:50 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 9:33 am
The Pope says that Nato was 'barking at Russia's door' and that this may have caused the war, and that he is unsure whether other countries should supply weapons to Ukraine.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia ... xNoHxJPQFs

I hear this is causing consternation in Poland where they adhere strongly to Catholic Church and the pope but loathe the Russians.
Before taking his opinion into consideration on military matters, I need to know how many divisions he has.

EACLucifer
After Pie
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Wed May 04, 2022 12:58 pm

headshot wrote:
Tue May 03, 2022 9:06 pm
I know Russia jumped the shark a while back…but accusing Israel of supporting Nazis is quite the take.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -row-grows
Russia has accused Israel of supporting the “neo-Nazi regime” in Kyiv as it escalates a diplomatic row with one of the few close US allies that decided not to join in sanctions against the Kremlin or send lethal military aid to Ukraine.

The dispute over remarks by Russia’s foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, who said in an interview that Adolf Hitler “had Jewish blood” and that the “most rabid antisemites tend to be Jews”, has threatened to unsettle Israel’s careful position over Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Could be another example of getting high on their own supply - the Soviet Union was extremely antisemitic and pushed a whole bunch of antisemitic b.llsh.t in their foreign policy, including pushing the disgraceful General Assembly Resolution 3379, which was thankfully revoked with the fall of the Soviet Union.

As an example of how endemic it was in Soviet propaganda and academia, Mahmoud Abbas wrote his dissertation at Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow in the early eighties, and as well as radically understating the scope of the holocaust, he also accuses Zionist leadership of conspiring to cause it, an idea derived in no small part from the postwar writings of Adolf Eichmann.

User avatar
dyqik
Light of Blast
Posts: 5223
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by dyqik » Wed May 04, 2022 6:14 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 11:50 am
Allo V Psycho wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 9:33 am
The Pope says that Nato was 'barking at Russia's door' and that this may have caused the war, and that he is unsure whether other countries should supply weapons to Ukraine.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia ... xNoHxJPQFs

I hear this is causing consternation in Poland where they adhere strongly to Catholic Church and the pope but loathe the Russians.
Before taking his opinion into consideration on military matters, I need to know how many divisions he has.
Given that the Catholic Church rejects the Arian heresy, none.

EACLucifer
After Pie
Posts: 1686
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:49 am
Location: Behind you

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Thu May 05, 2022 5:40 pm

Lukashenko just gave an interview calling for the war to end and saying he supports negotiations.

Evidently he does not think it is going to plan, and is concerned about his own position.

lol, lmao, etc.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Light of Blast
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Thu May 05, 2022 8:57 pm

Interesting account of Russian attitudes about the war in Ukraine: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/05/03 ... hing-human

User avatar
jimbob
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3742
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Thu May 05, 2022 9:34 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 8:57 pm
Interesting account of Russian attitudes about the war in Ukraine: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/05/03 ... hing-human
Interesting, depressing, but not that surprising.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Grumble
Stummy Beige
Posts: 3105
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Grumble » Thu May 05, 2022 10:26 pm

jimbob wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 9:34 pm
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 8:57 pm
Interesting account of Russian attitudes about the war in Ukraine: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/05/03 ... hing-human
Interesting, depressing, but not that surprising.
The situation in Russia is genuinely like in Orwell’s 1984. I always viewed it as kind of a horror story, but now I think it’s really keenly observed and it’s all the more horrible.
Would you like your chakras realigned?

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 8745
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Fri May 06, 2022 12:11 am

Orwell was largely motivated by his dislike of Stalin, of course. The Russianness is no coincidence.
Tree dwellers leaping out the boughs shouting «Get the paper»
Trunk hugging rebels chucking petals at a detonator

User avatar
Woodchopper
Light of Blast
Posts: 5144
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Fri May 06, 2022 12:58 pm

Thread on the likelihood of a coup in Russia: https://twitter.com/BenHNoble/status/15 ... AU7ssIgSKQ

tl;dr not likley.

Post Reply