The Invasion of Ukraine

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jimbob
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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:11 pm

bjn wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:32 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:45 am
Simonyan disturbingly open about the use of famine as a weapon.
The Russians have form for that.
In Ukraine as well
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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:05 pm

jimbob wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:11 pm
bjn wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:32 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:45 am
Simonyan disturbingly open about the use of famine as a weapon.
The Russians have form for that.
In Ukraine as well
I mean it's pretty much literally the oldest trick in the book (siege warfare, salted earth etc), and still done today where an aggressive power can control food supplies e.g. Syria, Yemen, Gaza, South Sudan, Ethiopia etc etc.

What's more disturbing is the scale of Russia's influence, able to affect global food supplies and prices rather than just nobbling a single population.
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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:25 pm

Ukrainian pilots said that their Air Force has mostly pulled back strikes using Turkish Bayraktar drones that proved effective at stopping Russian tank advances during the battle of Kyiv.

'Now that they’ve built up good air defenses, they’re almost useless,” said one 🇺🇦 pilot.
https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1 ... jhRah0xsqg

They still have an important role providing reconnaissance.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:16 am

The хуйло́s aren't just stealing everything that isn't nailed down, they are stealing things that are, too. For example, they stole Ukraine's largest solar power plant.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:52 am

Deliberate destruction of a grain terminal, part of Russia's ongoing attempts to starve the world into supporting them.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by TopBadger » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:54 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:52 am
Deliberate destruction of a grain terminal, part of Russia's ongoing attempts to starve the world into supporting them.
Risky - more likely rally support for international operations to boot the Russians out?

One might think this could be done salami style... emplacing 'Iron Dome' type systems and air defenses with a no fly zone in the west of Ukraine then gradually shuffling the line of protection it provides eastward?
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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by sTeamTraen » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:26 am

Blimey, I thought that for the first time in my life I might actually agree with an entire piece by Slavoj Žižek (usually I just chuckle at the jokes and the absurdity of their juxtaposition with whatever contrarian argument he is making). Fortunately he found a way to shoehorn support for Assange in there. (Or is that just a clever ruse to show the Corbynites/Mélenchonites/Podemosites that it's OK to support Ukraine?)
Something something hammer something something nail

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:09 pm

Russians have hit a shopping centre in central Ukraine, a long way from the front line. Reportedly a lot of civilians present, casualties could be horrifyingly high. Two cruise or ballistic missiles used, so clearly the shopping centre was the target.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:47 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:54 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:52 am
Deliberate destruction of a grain terminal, part of Russia's ongoing attempts to starve the world into supporting them.
Risky - more likely rally support for international operations to boot the Russians out?

One might think this could be done salami style... emplacing 'Iron Dome' type systems and air defenses with a no fly zone in the west of Ukraine then gradually shuffling the line of protection it provides eastward?
It's not a bad plan to be honest. For all the fears about Russian responses to non-Ukrainians shooting down Russian planes, missile defence over western or central Ukraine is unlikely to meet any Russian plans.

And if they do, schwack them and deny all knowledge. There would be something darkly satisfying about turning round to the Russians and saying "No, it wasn't a SAM. Must have been a Ukrainian MiG-29"

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:47 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:25 pm
Ukrainian pilots said that their Air Force has mostly pulled back strikes using Turkish Bayraktar drones that proved effective at stopping Russian tank advances during the battle of Kyiv.

'Now that they’ve built up good air defenses, they’re almost useless,” said one 🇺🇦 pilot.
https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1 ... jhRah0xsqg

They still have an important role providing reconnaissance.
Agreed re: reconnaissance. They have absolutely fantastic cameras, as seen by just how far away they sometimes are when filming things.

And speaking of Bayraktars, Baykar continue to refuse to take money from crowdfunding drives. This time, Ukrainians raised money for three, which will now go to humanitarian aid with the drones donated by the manufacturer.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by TimW » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:47 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:09 pm
Russians have hit a shopping centre in central Ukraine, a long way from the front line. Reportedly a lot of civilians present, casualties could be horrifyingly high. Two cruise or ballistic missiles used, so clearly the shopping centre was the target.
The poor people at TASS seem to have given up. They are only allowed to present the official line, so when that's plainly bollocks there's no point trying to make it look like a sensible account.
https://tass.com/politics/1473195 wrote:
‘Fake news’: Diplomat castigates claims about ‘Russian strike’ on Kremenchug mall


Maria Zakharova criticized the deliberate moves as hiding behind the backs of civilians, using them as human shields for the sake of the West’s geopolitical interests

MOSCOW, June 29. /TASS/ Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova has slammed as fake news Kiev’s reports about a Russian air strike at a shopping mall in Kremenchug.

"An attempt to claim that Russian forces struck a shopping mall in Kremenchug on June 27 is the latest blatant provocation by the [Ukrainian President Vladimir] Zelensky regime. The Kiev regime has claimed there were some 1,000 civilians in the mall, etc. Unfortunately, all this fake news was disseminated," the Russian diplomat said at a news conference on Wednesday."The Western countries could as well ask their regimes what’s the use of delivering and storing weapons and ammunition near a shopping center? It never occurred to either Western reporters, or Western NGOs and the `humanitarian activists’ who are so much concerned over the situation around Ukraine to ask this question," Zakharova remarked.

She criticized the deliberate moves as hiding behind the backs of civilians, using them as human shields for the sake of the West’s geopolitical interests.

"It is the storage facilities that the Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed with high-precision strikes," the spokeswoman emphasized.

On Tuesday, Defense Ministry Spokesman Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov reported that the Russian Aerospace Forces delivered high-precision surgical strikes on hangars containing US-and EU-supplied weapons near to a road machinery plant in Kremenchug. "The ensuing blast from the ammunition for the Western-supplied arms stored there sparked a fire at a defunct shopping mall located close to the plant," the general pointed out.

On Monday, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky wrote on his Telegram channel that a shopping mall was ablaze in Kremenchug. He claimed that a rocket attack had caused the fire. Russian Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN Dmitry Polyansky said on Monday that this case resembled the false flag in Bucha, noting that the shopping mall incident had numerous glaring inconsistencies around it.
So: Russia didn't strike the shopping centre, it was a defunct shopping centre anyway, that Ukraine was using as human shields, even though nobody was there, when Ukraine themselves made a false flag attack on it, a provocation, like Bucha.

Fair enough, editor, there's not much you can do with source material like that.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:21 am

TimW wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:47 am
So: Russia didn't strike the shopping centre, it was a defunct shopping centre anyway, that Ukraine was using as human shields, even though nobody was there, when Ukraine themselves made a false flag attack on it, a provocation, like Bucha.

Fair enough, editor, there's not much you can do with source material like that.
And they're trying to frame abandoning their occupation of Snake Island as a humanitarian gesture (which would mean acknowledging they are the ones causing the crisis re: food exports, but never expect Russian propaganda to be consistent with itself) and not because Snake Island currently looks like this.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:16 am

TimW wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:47 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:09 pm
Russians have hit a shopping centre in central Ukraine, a long way from the front line. Reportedly a lot of civilians present, casualties could be horrifyingly high. Two cruise or ballistic missiles used, so clearly the shopping centre was the target.
The poor people at TASS seem to have given up. They are only allowed to present the official line, so when that's plainly bollocks there's no point trying to make it look like a sensible account.
https://tass.com/politics/1473195 wrote:
‘Fake news’: Diplomat castigates claims about ‘Russian strike’ on Kremenchug mall


Maria Zakharova criticized the deliberate moves as hiding behind the backs of civilians, using them as human shields for the sake of the West’s geopolitical interests

MOSCOW, June 29. /TASS/ Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova has slammed as fake news Kiev’s reports about a Russian air strike at a shopping mall in Kremenchug.

"An attempt to claim that Russian forces struck a shopping mall in Kremenchug on June 27 is the latest blatant provocation by the [Ukrainian President Vladimir] Zelensky regime. The Kiev regime has claimed there were some 1,000 civilians in the mall, etc. Unfortunately, all this fake news was disseminated," the Russian diplomat said at a news conference on Wednesday."The Western countries could as well ask their regimes what’s the use of delivering and storing weapons and ammunition near a shopping center? It never occurred to either Western reporters, or Western NGOs and the `humanitarian activists’ who are so much concerned over the situation around Ukraine to ask this question," Zakharova remarked.

She criticized the deliberate moves as hiding behind the backs of civilians, using them as human shields for the sake of the West’s geopolitical interests.

"It is the storage facilities that the Russian Aerospace Forces destroyed with high-precision strikes," the spokeswoman emphasized.

On Tuesday, Defense Ministry Spokesman Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov reported that the Russian Aerospace Forces delivered high-precision surgical strikes on hangars containing US-and EU-supplied weapons near to a road machinery plant in Kremenchug. "The ensuing blast from the ammunition for the Western-supplied arms stored there sparked a fire at a defunct shopping mall located close to the plant," the general pointed out.

On Monday, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky wrote on his Telegram channel that a shopping mall was ablaze in Kremenchug. He claimed that a rocket attack had caused the fire. Russian Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN Dmitry Polyansky said on Monday that this case resembled the false flag in Bucha, noting that the shopping mall incident had numerous glaring inconsistencies around it.
So: Russia didn't strike the shopping centre, it was a defunct shopping centre anyway, that Ukraine was using as human shields, even though nobody was there, when Ukraine themselves made a false flag attack on it, a provocation, like Bucha.

Fair enough, editor, there's not much you can do with source material like that.
Nice spot
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:58 am

TimW wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:47 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:09 pm
Russians have hit a shopping centre in central Ukraine, a long way from the front line. Reportedly a lot of civilians present, casualties could be horrifyingly high. Two cruise or ballistic missiles used, so clearly the shopping centre was the target.
The poor people at TASS seem to have given up. They are only allowed to present the official line, so when that's plainly bollocks there's no point trying to make it look like a sensible account.
I wonder how they'll spin attacking blocks of flats in Odesa oblast overnight? Sadly it looks to be as bad as the Kremenchuk attack.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:33 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:58 am
TimW wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:47 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:09 pm
Russians have hit a shopping centre in central Ukraine, a long way from the front line. Reportedly a lot of civilians present, casualties could be horrifyingly high. Two cruise or ballistic missiles used, so clearly the shopping centre was the target.
The poor people at TASS seem to have given up. They are only allowed to present the official line, so when that's plainly bollocks there's no point trying to make it look like a sensible account.
I wonder how they'll spin attacking blocks of flats in Odesa oblast overnight? Sadly it looks to be as bad as the Kremenchuk attack.
Vicious attack by Ukrainian housing against innocent Russian missiles.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by TimW » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:41 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:58 am

I wonder how they'll spin attacking blocks of flats in Odesa oblast overnight? Sadly it looks to be as bad as the Kremenchuk attack.
Even Dmitry Peskov sounds a bit like he's has had enough of talking unending shite, and he seems like an expert at it.
"I would like to remind you once again Russia’s president and commander-in-chief has repeatedly said that the Russian army during the special military operation does not attack civilian targets or civilian infrastructure. It carries out strikes against military warehouses, industrial facilities where military equipment undergoes maintenance and repairs, ammunition depots and the sites where mercenaries and nationalist elements are stationed and trained," Peskov said while commenting on media claims a missile had hit an apartment building in the Odessa Region.

Peskov advised the media to contact the Russian Defense Ministry for details.
https://tass.com/defense/1474441

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Woodchopper » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:12 am

Timothy Snyder eviscerates Jürgen Habermas: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/aus ... 31718.html

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:38 am

Looks like Russian cash machines cannot be programmed to recognise the new 100 Ruble notes due to sanctions
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:40 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:12 am
Timothy Snyder eviscerates Jürgen Habermas: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/aus ... 31718.html
Good article
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:49 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:12 am
Timothy Snyder eviscerates Jürgen Habermas: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/aus ... 31718.html
And the piece to which it was responding

https://www.resetdoc.org/story/jurgen-h ... e-dilemma/

As you said - eviscerated.
The dilemma that has forced the West to choose among alternatives in the range between two evils – a defeat of Ukraine or the escalation of a limited conflict into a third world war – is clear. On the one hand, we have learned from the Cold War that a war against a nuclear power can no longer be “won” in any reasonable sense, at least not with the means of military force within the limited timeline of a hot conflict.
Which was pretty naïve for someone someone writing in late April

And as for this:
But such projections are the foundation for the widespread assumption that Putin’s aggressive intentions extend beyond Ukraine to Georgia and the Republic of Moldova, and perhaps even to the Nato member states in the Baltic region and then even far into the Balkans.
Gee why would that be? It's not based on a psychological assessment of Putin, but on his expansionist wars and statements, which feed into the assessment - not the other way round.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:44 pm

A twitter thread discussing Russia's plans to create global hunger

I'm really not seeing signs of politicians recognising just how dangerous this is to the world as a whole. This is a policy designed to cause unrest. It's designed to cause political turmoil in Europe, but will cause the most damage in Africa and Asia. It won't just be famine - it will also be war.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:14 pm

Reportedly four civilians killed in Belgorod, and reportedly the governor has been surprisingly open about what happened; A Russian Pantsir launched an interceptor, knocking an incoming Tochka-U off-course and onto a civilian area.

Aside from the acknowledgement from a Russian official, we also have evidence of part of the Pantsir's interceptor - the booster - landing in Belgorod, and footage showing a blast in the air, shortly followed by a much larger blast on the ground a little distance away.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:01 am

https://samf.substack.com/p/can-ukraine-win

Discussion about what victory would be - as opposed to denying Russia victory.

And whether Ukraine can win
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:17 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:12 am
Timothy Snyder eviscerates Jürgen Habermas: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/aus ... 31718.html
And a good followup thread by Benjamin Tallis

Complete with NAFO/OFAN reference for those in the know.

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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine

Post by jimbob » Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:22 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:17 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:12 am
Timothy Snyder eviscerates Jürgen Habermas: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/aus ... 31718.html
And a good followup thread by Benjamin Tallis

Complete with NAFO/OFAN reference for those in the know.
It is good
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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