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Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:24 am
by Millennie Al
Grumble wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:23 am
Millennie Al wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:36 pm
Urgently converting something from gas to electricity only makes sense when it saves a lot of gas
and there is capacity to generate the extra electricity. See gridwatch.co.uk to see that over the last two years gas has been extensively used. So extra generating capacity would come from running gas generators for more of the time - we're not going to be building new power stations fast enough to make a difference in the short term.
For now, the solution has to be to use less energy so that there is enough to go around.
Correctly installed heat pumps running off electricity generated by burning gas use less gas than boilers, because of the heat gain effect (1 unit of electrical heat becomes 3-4 units of usable heat)
Note the bit in magenta. If there is insuffient capacity at gas power stations to convert the gas previously used in boilers into electricity, then you get no heat out of it, We're not building more gas power stations in the short term, and probably not in the medium or long term either.
And, incidentally, the efficiency of converting gas to electricity is about 50% (see
Thermal efficiency of combined cycle gas turbine stations in the United Kingdom (UK) from 2010 to 2021 ). So the heat gain effect is lower at 1.5-2 (though in the longer term there is scope for improving this).
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:41 am
by bob sterman
Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:58 pm
Putin is right about the West.
Really? Which bit? The bit about how the Anglo Saxons sabotaged the Nord Stream pipes? Or how we are into Satanism?
Have you been on the vodka???
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:16 am
by EACLucifer
bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:41 am
Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:58 pm
Putin is right about the West.
Really? Which bit? The bit about how the Anglo Saxons sabotaged the Nord Stream pipes? Or how we are into Satanism?
Have you been on the vodka???
I blame Cnut. Always trying to bugger about the ocean, he is*
*
Yes, I know. I know. But it's needed to make the joke work.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:47 am
by Grumble
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:16 am
bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:41 am
Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:58 pm
Putin is right about the West.
Really? Which bit? The bit about how the Anglo Saxons sabotaged the Nord Stream pipes? Or how we are into Satanism?
Have you been on the vodka???
I blame Cnut. Always trying to bugger about the ocean, he is*
*
Yes, I know. I know. But it's needed to make the joke work.
Surely not, he was a Scandi not an Anglo-Saxon
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:33 am
by EACLucifer
Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:47 am
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:16 am
bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:41 am
Really? Which bit? The bit about how the Anglo Saxons sabotaged the Nord Stream pipes? Or how we are into Satanism?
Have you been on the vodka???
I blame Cnut. Always trying to bugger about the ocean, he is*
*
Yes, I know. I know. But it's needed to make the joke work.
Surely not, he was a Scandi not an Anglo-Saxon
See footnote. And he was at least king over a lot of Anglo-Saxons and I think married one.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:25 pm
by Herainestold
bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:41 am
Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:58 pm
Putin is right about the West.
Really? Which bit? The bit about how the Anglo Saxons sabotaged the Nord Stream pipes? Or how we are into Satanism?
Have you been on the vodka???
I agree with those who characterized the speech as unhinged. But there were elements of truth there. Why does most of the world hate the Imperialist, Colonialist, Capitalist West?
The West uses the power of finance and technology to enforce its will on other nations. To collect what he calls the "hegemon's tax". To this end the West destabilises countries, creates terrorist enclaves and most of all seeks to deprive other countries of sovereignty.
Western elites are "totalitarian, despotic and apartheidistic" - direct quote. They are racist against Russia and other countries and nations. "Russophobia is racism". They discriminate by calling themselves the "civilised world
They colonised, started the global slave trade, genocided native Americans, pillaged India and Africa, forced China to buy opium through war. We, on the other hand, are proud that we "led" the anti-colonial movement that helped countries develop to reduce poverty and inequality
Eventually, they managed to "get their hands on our riches" at the end of the 20th century. They called us friends and partners while pumping out trillions of dollars
We remember this. We didn't forget. The West claims to bring freedom and democracy to other countries but it's the exact opposite of the truth. The unipolar world is anti-democratic by its very nature. It is a lie. They used nuclear weapons, creating a precedent. They flattened German cities without "any military need to do so". There was no need for this except to scare us and the rest of the world. Korea, Vietnam. To this day they "occupy" Japan, South Korea and Germany and other countries while cynically calling them "allies"
The US rules the world by the power of the fist. Any country which seeks to challenge Western hegemony becomes an enemy. Their neocolonialism is cloaked in lies like "containment" of Russia, China and Iran. The concept of truth has been destroyed with fakes and extreme..propaganda You cannot feed your people with printed dollars and social media. You need food and energy. But Western elites have no desire to find a solution to the food and energy crises *they* created
Paraphrased by Konstantin Kisin.
Anyway.
It does not justify what Russia have done. People outside the West look at this situation and don't see it as cut and dried as western media would have you believe. Maybe there are some gray areas that we should consider. If the West cleaned up its own act, these crises might not arise, or they would be easier to defuse.
I shudder to think of what comes next. I think we are less than a month from all out nuclear war in Europe.
https://nitter.net/i/status/1575853684852150272
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:41 pm
by headshot
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:25 pm
[I think we are less than a month from all out nuclear war in Europe.
Didn’t you say that a month ago?
Also…pretty sure all our nuclear war is pretty difficult to limit to a single continent.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:48 pm
by Grumble
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:25 pm
bob sterman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:41 am
Herainestold wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:58 pm
Putin is right about the West.
Really? Which bit? The bit about how the Anglo Saxons sabotaged the Nord Stream pipes? Or how we are into Satanism?
Have you been on the vodka???
I agree with those who characterized the speech as unhinged. But there were elements of truth there. Why does most of the world hate the Imperialist, Colonialist, Capitalist West?
The West uses the power of finance and technology to enforce its will on other nations. To collect what he calls the "hegemon's tax". To this end the West destabilises countries, creates terrorist enclaves and most of all seeks to deprive other countries of sovereignty.
Western elites are "totalitarian, despotic and apartheidistic" - direct quote. They are racist against Russia and other countries and nations. "Russophobia is racism". They discriminate by calling themselves the "civilised world
They colonised, started the global slave trade, genocided native Americans, pillaged India and Africa, forced China to buy opium through war. We, on the other hand, are proud that we "led" the anti-colonial movement that helped countries develop to reduce poverty and inequality
Eventually, they managed to "get their hands on our riches" at the end of the 20th century. They called us friends and partners while pumping out trillions of dollars
We remember this. We didn't forget. The West claims to bring freedom and democracy to other countries but it's the exact opposite of the truth. The unipolar world is anti-democratic by its very nature. It is a lie. They used nuclear weapons, creating a precedent. They flattened German cities without "any military need to do so". There was no need for this except to scare us and the rest of the world. Korea, Vietnam. To this day they "occupy" Japan, South Korea and Germany and other countries while cynically calling them "allies"
The US rules the world by the power of the fist. Any country which seeks to challenge Western hegemony becomes an enemy. Their neocolonialism is cloaked in lies like "containment" of Russia, China and Iran. The concept of truth has been destroyed with fakes and extreme..propaganda You cannot feed your people with printed dollars and social media. You need food and energy. But Western elites have no desire to find a solution to the food and energy crises *they* created
Paraphrased by Konstantin Kisin.
Anyway.
It does not justify what Russia have done. People outside the West look at this situation and don't see it as cut and dried as western media would have you believe. Maybe there are some gray areas that we should consider. If the West cleaned up its own act, these crises might not arise, or they would be easier to defuse.
I shudder to think of what comes next. I think we are less than a month from all out nuclear war in Europe.
https://nitter.net/i/status/1575853684852150272
There have been many bad things done by western countries, but all of this is whataboutery. Nothing provoked Putin to invade Ukraine other than his grievance at the partial break-up of the Russian Empire. He’s absolutely blatantly imperialist in this war.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:00 pm
by Herainestold
Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:48 pm
There have been many bad things done by western countries, but all of this is whataboutery. Nothing provoked Putin to invade Ukraine other than his grievance at the partial break-up of the Russian Empire. He’s absolutely blatantly imperialist in this war.
I don't disagree. I am just trying to add context. When people seem to agree with Putin's actions, there may be underlying reasons.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm
by Herainestold
headshot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:41 pm
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:25 pm
[I think we are less than a month from all out nuclear war in Europe.
Didn’t you say that a month ago?
Also…pretty sure all our nuclear war is pretty difficult to limit to a single continent.
I did. I hope i can say the same thing in another month.
It will start in Europe. We won't see how it ends because we will be dead.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:31 pm
by JQH
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:33 am
Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:47 am
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:16 am
I blame Cnut. Always trying to bugger about the ocean, he is*
*
Yes, I know. I know. But it's needed to make the joke work.
Surely not, he was a Scandi not an Anglo-Saxon
See footnote. And he was at least king over a lot of Anglo-Saxons and I think married one.
He married a Norman.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:34 pm
by EACLucifer
JQH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:31 pm
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:33 am
Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:47 am
Surely not, he was a Scandi not an Anglo-Saxon
See footnote. And he was at least king over a lot of Anglo-Saxons and I think married one.
He married a Norman.
He married twice. I was thinking of Ælfgifu
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:25 am
by temptar
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:29 pm
headshot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:41 pm
Herainestold wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:25 pm
[I think we are less than a month from all out nuclear war in Europe.
Didn’t you say that a month ago?
Also…pretty sure all our nuclear war is pretty difficult to limit to a single continent.
I did. I hope i can say the same thing in another month.
It will start in Europe. We won't see how it ends because we will be dead.
It will start because the autocratic muppet in Moscow that you keep giving comfort to despite apparently disagreeing with him will start it. It will start in Russia. Be honest and precise here.
If it starts at all.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:44 pm
by Herainestold
temptar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:25 am
It will start because the autocratic muppet in Moscow that you keep giving comfort to despite apparently disagreeing with him will start it. It will start in Russia. Be honest and precise here.
If it starts at all.
It will start by Russia in Ukraine. In Europe.
The cornered rat will lash out. Where it will end, we won't know as we will be dead.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:09 pm
by temptar
Apparently things are not looking sustainable for Russia in Kherson tonight.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:04 pm
by El Pollo Diablo
Petraeus has said what needed saying, which is that if Putin even attempts to use tactical nuclear weapons, NATO will destroy Russia's troops in Ukraine.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... dApp_Other
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:52 am
by EACLucifer
temptar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:09 pm
Apparently things are not looking sustainable for Russia in Kherson tonight.
There's a lot of discussion of that over on the Blyatskrieg thread.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:54 am
by EACLucifer
Yes. Putin acts when he sees weakness. When he threatened Ukraine over the winter, US troops withdrew from the country and US ships left the Black Sea. He'd have taken that as permission.
And NATO doesn't need to go nuclear to ruin things for Putin. The long range strike capability alone could utterly ruin his plans in Ukraine.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:54 am
by TopBadger
temptar wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:09 pm
Apparently things are not looking sustainable for Russia
in Kherson tonight.
FTFY...
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:22 pm
by bob sterman
EACLucifer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:54 am
Yes. Putin acts when he sees weakness. When he threatened Ukraine over the winter, US troops withdrew from the country and US ships left the Black Sea. He'd have taken that as permission.
And NATO doesn't need to go nuclear to ruin things for Putin. The long range strike capability alone could utterly ruin his plans in Ukraine.
I suspect that Russian use of a nuclear weapon is most likely to come in the form of a "demonstration" or "test".With the intention to intimidate - but ambiguity over whether it necessitates a NATO response.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:31 pm
by Herainestold
Elon Musk has some ideas
Ukraine-Russia Peace:
- Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people.
- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).
- Water supply to Crimea assured.
- Ukraine remains neutral.
https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1576 ... 31296000#m
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:38 pm
by bob sterman
Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:31 pm
Elon Musk has some ideas
Ukraine-Russia Peace:
- Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people.
- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).
- Water supply to Crimea assured.
- Ukraine remains neutral.
https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1576 ... 31296000#m
And build a kid sized submarine!!!!
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:52 pm
by bjn
Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:31 pm
Elon Musk has some ideas
Ukraine-Russia Peace:
- Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people.
- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).
- Water supply to Crimea assured.
- Ukraine remains neutral.
https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1576 ... 31296000#m
He's an a..eh.le, generally full of sh.t, so I'm not sure why you think it's worth considering his political ideas.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:57 pm
by Herainestold
bob sterman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:38 pm
Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:31 pm
Elon Musk has some ideas
Ukraine-Russia Peace:
- Redo elections of annexed regions under UN supervision. Russia leaves if that is will of the people.
- Crimea formally part of Russia, as it has been since 1783 (until Khrushchev’s mistake).
- Water supply to Crimea assured.
- Ukraine remains neutral.
https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1576 ... 31296000#m
And build a kid sized submarine!!!!
If you are so smart why aren't you rich? And then there is Elon.
I can't see re-doing the elections--much of the original population has fled and Russians have moved in.
Maybe after the Russians have been gone for five years..
Crimea is another matter- you have to give him something, let him have Crimea, where most of the people are Russian.
Neutrality is a good option and should be adopted by all the former Warsaw Pact countries, as it would keep them safer, by giving Russia buffer against NATO.
Re: The Invasion of Ukraine
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:10 pm
by bob sterman
Herainestold wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:57 pm
bob sterman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:38 pm
And build a kid sized submarine!!!!
If you are so smart why aren't you rich? And then there is Elon.
Being good at making cars and launching rockets does not necessarily make one good at rescuing kids from caves, solving geopolitical crises and ending wars.
If Putin gets what he wants - the war will stop. So Elon is not exactly demonstrating the "out-of-the-box" thinking he's supposed to be famous for - by simply listing a load of stuff Putin wants as a means to end the war.