The cost of living

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:30 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:21 pm
Yes, it can be unpicked, that is what Monroe is asking for. But CPI does not do that, and it's CPI that attracts the headlines, and is also used in discussions about benefits levels. The point is that there isn't a commonly used ONS product that does unpick that.
She is asking the ONS to do this, which is good.

She's also requested "a gazillion crowdsourced shopping receipts" that she is going to put "into four dozen spreadsheets and coordinate the working group and make some graphs and stuff". I don't need to lpmsplain to anyone here how problematic this approach is going to be.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:34 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:28 pm
lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:26 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:20 pm
Is this what lpmsplaining would look like?
I'm kind of embarrassed to be on a forum where I need to explain what an average is.
I'm embarrassed for you that you think that explaining an average is relevant. This whole argument is about the fact that averages do not measure the shape of distributions.
Are you ever going to think about inconvenient facts, such as that the items with the biggest falls in price might well be associated with the lower deciles - computer games, coach travel, leisurewear - while the items with the biggest rises in price could well be associated with the higher deciles - office clothing, air travel, restaurants, hotels?
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7527
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The cost of living

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:36 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:30 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:21 pm
Yes, it can be unpicked, that is what Monroe is asking for. But CPI does not do that, and it's CPI that attracts the headlines, and is also used in discussions about benefits levels. The point is that there isn't a commonly used ONS product that does unpick that.
She is asking the ONS to do this, which is good.

She's also requested "a gazillion crowdsourced shopping receipts" that she is going to put "into four dozen spreadsheets and coordinate the working group and make some graphs and stuff". I don't need to lpmsplain to anyone here how problematic this approach is going to be.
It's an adequate approach for a quick look to see if there's maybe a problem to be looked at properly, and for pressuring ONS to do more accurate and detailed work. Which since she suggested that, they seem to be interested in.

Science is full of quick studies to identify problems to be worked on. It's pretty much how it works.

You also seem to be assuming that an early tweet about an idea accurately describes what will eventually be done.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: The cost of living

Post by tom p » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:37 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:16 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:02 pm
lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:25 am
She is bl..dy fantastic, but I'm not convinced by her opening argument.

It could in fact be the supply chain issues - lorry drivers, staff shortages from Covid, Brexit. That's what happened at the worst of it, de-prioritsing deliveries of non-core products. The outcome was a reduction in the number of lines plus a reduction in promotions.

So what she sees as supermarkets deliberately cutting the value products could be a supply issue rather than a pricing issue.
It doesn't matter if the proximate cause is supply chain or the supermarkets cutting lines as a choice. What matters is that the cheap lines that have been essential to keeping a significant number of poorer people fed are now no longer available. That then has important implications for national government policy, which they seem to only be viewing through the lens of general inflation.

In any case, which lines the supermarkets prioritize while working through supply chain issues is a choice they make - a rational one, based on profits and sales, and which are easiest to deal with, but one that causes serious knock-on effects.
Inflation doesn't work like this though.

People change behaviours in response to changes in prices. Often unconsciously. If pasta goes up but bread goes down, they switch. If apples are expensive they buy more bananas. And above all people are promiscuous between shops, getting some items from Aldi and some from Iceland, instead of doing a single big shop at Tesco.
Are they really? Do you have any link for that?
I tried a quick search and found this, which is only for 18-24s, but does rather contradict your claim: the vast majority of those surveyed do a big shop. About a half also do top-up shops. Only a fraction don't do a big shop & are, as you say, promiscuous.
There's also this (from 2017, in which 64% of respondents said the did a big shop in-store or online).
This is unsurprising, since doing lots of shops is time-consuming.
The inability to easily shop around is a bigger* problem for poor people, who have fewer labour-saving devices, are less likely to have cars, are likely to have kids, might well have a low-paid long hours job, so they don't have the ability to get to lots of shops or the time to do it.
*in all cases subjectively judged against middle-class peeps like me

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7527
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The cost of living

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:40 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:34 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:28 pm
lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:26 pm

I'm kind of embarrassed to be on a forum where I need to explain what an average is.
I'm embarrassed for you that you think that explaining an average is relevant. This whole argument is about the fact that averages do not measure the shape of distributions.
Are you ever going to think about inconvenient facts, such as that the items with the biggest falls in price might well be associated with the lower deciles - computer games, coach travel, leisurewear - while the items with the biggest rises in price could well be associated with the higher deciles - office clothing, air travel, restaurants, hotels?
What makes you think I'm not aware of that possibility?

I've been talking about food. And only food. Monroe is talking about living on a survival budget where optional things like computer games, new clothes and travel are not affordable.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: The cost of living

Post by tom p » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:41 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:01 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:32 pm
The ONS is now actively meeting with Monroe to get more information on making the CPI or a related product more useful for those on a lower budget. This is because the Consumer Prices Index includes a significant number of non-basics food items, meaning that it only works for the middle deciles, and not those that are subsisting in the lowest deciles.

The CPI is based on a list of food and non-food items purchased across the income ranges, and so does not work for those in the lowest deciles, who just can't buy those things. It's based on average sales and average shopping carts.
I shouldn't need to explain that you can't cherry pick your way out of an average.

She might well be right that inflation for the lowest decile is higher but there's no evidence for that yet. Some of the goods with the highest inflation currently are:

- home improvement products
- office clothing
- used cars
- hire cars
- home improvement products
- petrol
- air travel
- restaurants
- hotels
- hardback non-fiction books

Some of the items with the biggest falls in prices are:

- computer games
- coach travel
- money transfers
- leisurewear
- jigsaws
- self-raising flour
- mashed potato

It might well be the case that CPI over-states inflation for the lowest deciles, once you strike out the big price rises for atypical spend by these groups.

We don't know.

It's good news that the ONS is investigating and good on Monroe for campaigning for it, but I'm afraid I remain unconvinced by her opening argument.
Exactly. Jigsaws. Those are so far from a non-essential purchase that for anyone struggling to make ends meet, the price of a jigsaw is irrelevant.
The idea of an index (run by the ONS) for those struggling is brilliant, because with the information then the government can target the vermin for more efficient extermination by starvation enact policies to actually help those in greatest need.

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:44 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:37 pm
Are they really? Do you have any link for that?
I tried a quick search and found this, which is only for 18-24s, but does rather contradict your claim: the vast majority of those surveyed do a big shop. About a half also do top-up shops. Only a fraction don't do a big shop & are, as you say, promiscuous.
There's also this (from 2017, in which 64% of respondents said the did a big shop in-store or online).
This is unsurprising, since doing lots of shops is time-consuming.
The inability to easily shop around is a bigger* problem for poor people, who have fewer labour-saving devices, are less likely to have cars, are likely to have kids, might well have a low-paid long hours job, so they don't have the ability to get to lots of shops or the time to do it.
*in all cases subjectively judged against middle-class peeps like me
Dividing the shop, particularly between Iceland and one other, is a well known money saving technique. It might even be Monroe who popularised it.

Aldi + Lidl had 6% of market share in 2012. They have 15% now. This shows how incredibly competitive the value market for groceries is.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:46 pm

tom p wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:41 pm
Exactly. Jigsaws. Those are so far from a non-essential purchase that for anyone struggling to make ends meet, the price of a jigsaw is irrelevant.
The idea of an index (run by the ONS) for those struggling is brilliant, because with the information then the government can target the vermin for more efficient extermination by starvation enact policies to actually help those in greatest need.
Mate. Jigsaws. You understand it's a weighted basket, right? You know how that works? And you know that pensioners on the state pension feature in the lower deciles?
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
Gfamily
Light of Blast
Posts: 5180
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: The cost of living

Post by Gfamily » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:48 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:26 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:20 pm
Is this what lpmsplaining would look like?
I'm kind of embarrassed to be on a forum where I need to explain what an average is.
So, Yes.
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
Bird on a Fire
Princess POW
Posts: 10137
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:05 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: The cost of living

Post by Bird on a Fire » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:48 pm

People living hand-to-mouth aren't splashing out on computer games and coach trips, wtf.

There are a lot of people in the country who can barely afford food, 700,000+ food bank users among them. Luxury products like entertainment and new clothes are unlikely to be a significant part of their budget.

Do I smell not-understanding-poverty, or was it something I stepped in?
We have the right to a clean, healthy, sustainable environment.

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:50 pm

dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:40 pm
I've been talking about food. And only food. Monroe is talking about living on a survival budget where optional things like computer games, new clothes and travel are not affordable.
Survival budgets cannot be determined by looking at the spend of a single individual no longer on a survival budget.

The lower deciles spend money on computer games, clothes and travel. It's highly relevant. If you want to talk only about survival budgets then it would be better to turn this into a debate about food banks.

ETA as BoaF has just said.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:52 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:48 pm
Do I smell not-understanding-poverty, or was it something I stepped in?
I fear you fail to understand poverty if you think poor people don't buy computer games. You're veering into "they all have FLAT SCREEN TVs" territory here.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:57 pm

This is the thread outlining what the Vimes Boots Index is trying to do:

https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/statu ... 4282560518
CALL FOR EVIDENCE. In order to compile the #VimesBootsIndex, we need more data than my own collection of shopping receipts holds. If you want to help, please forward (removing your identifying info) any online shopping receipts to vimesbootsindex@gmail.com....

1. We need shopping receipts from the Big Four supermarkets: Asda, Morrison’s, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, from 2012-2022...

4. If you have kept a record of your shopping prices in another way, eg a spreadsheet, and you want to share this, we would be very grateful!...

8. We need as many people as possible to contribute to make this work...

9. Please, for easier sorting, label your email subject header with the supermarket, the month and year, eg TESCO MARCH 2020. We are all volunteers with a mammoth task ahead, and we want to do the best job we can.
And I'm the only person here thinking this is a mad approach???
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: The cost of living

Post by tom p » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:00 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:44 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:37 pm
Are they really? Do you have any link for that?
I tried a quick search and found this, which is only for 18-24s, but does rather contradict your claim: the vast majority of those surveyed do a big shop. About a half also do top-up shops. Only a fraction don't do a big shop & are, as you say, promiscuous.
There's also this (from 2017, in which 64% of respondents said the did a big shop in-store or online).
This is unsurprising, since doing lots of shops is time-consuming.
The inability to easily shop around is a bigger* problem for poor people, who have fewer labour-saving devices, are less likely to have cars, are likely to have kids, might well have a low-paid long hours job, so they don't have the ability to get to lots of shops or the time to do it.
*in all cases subjectively judged against middle-class peeps like me
Dividing the shop, particularly between Iceland and one other, is a well known money saving technique. It might even be Monroe who popularised it.

Aldi + Lidl had 6% of market share in 2012. They have 15% now. This shows how incredibly competitive the value market for groceries is.
Re the italicised part: that's irrelevant to dividing the shop. It just means that there are cheaper supermarkets. And, guess what, if you know their market share, then the ONS will do too. No doubt they'll have the mad skillz to be able to do Aldi/Lidl price * .15 in Excel & Tesco price * .3 or whatever their share is to develop an accurate index.

Re the emboldened part: some people can do that, whereas others can't. When I was poor and living in London with no kids, I would spend all Saturday afternoon down Ridley Road market or Walthamstow market looking for the cheapest fruit & veg, waiting until the costermongers wanted to knock off & reduced the price to poundabowl, then I'd pile in and that evening make various veg stews and casseroles and suchlike with my mrs so we could eat healthily and tastily all week for very little.

Plenty of others can't do that. If you live in a town or a small city, then there's no choice - you're locked in to one supermarket. I know that from when I was poor and a kid (in the 80s), living on a big council estate on the edge of a city in of about 250k people. We, and many of our neighbours couldn't afford cars. We had to walk to the only vaguely close supermarket, a Sainsburys in the shopping centre that was a 15 minute walk away (longer with kids & a trolley, and, of course, if you're taking the trolley home, then you have to take it back, so that's an hour's walking, plus the shopping and queueing). If we wanted to go to another supermarket, or to the market in town, we had to go 5 mins to the bus stop and wait (buses every half hour), then pay a disgustingly large amount for what was only a 25 minute bus ride, then have the ballache of transporting things home on the same infrequent buses. And if all day saturday is spent schlepping around supermarkets, when are you going to do the laundry, or patch the kids' clothes? Or help them with their homework? Supermarket hopping is a fantasy for many people.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: The cost of living

Post by tom p » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:02 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:46 pm
tom p wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:41 pm
Exactly. Jigsaws. Those are so far from a non-essential purchase that for anyone struggling to make ends meet, the price of a jigsaw is irrelevant.
The idea of an index (run by the ONS) for those struggling is brilliant, because with the information then the government can target the vermin for more efficient extermination by starvation enact policies to actually help those in greatest need.
Mate. Jigsaws. You understand it's a weighted basket, right? You know how that works? And you know that pensioners on the state pension feature in the lower deciles?
Unless the price of jigsaws is looking at the price in charity shops, then it's going to be irrelevant for the poorest.
A Vimes boots basket would have the price of jigsaws weighted to 0

Edited to change 'bootstrap' to 'boots'
Last edited by tom p on Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

monkey
After Pie
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:10 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by monkey » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:04 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:57 pm
This is the thread outlining what the Vimes Boots Index is trying to do:

https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/statu ... 4282560518
CALL FOR EVIDENCE. In order to compile the #VimesBootsIndex, we need more data than my own collection of shopping receipts holds. If you want to help, please forward (removing your identifying info) any online shopping receipts to vimesbootsindex@gmail.com....

1. We need shopping receipts from the Big Four supermarkets: Asda, Morrison’s, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, from 2012-2022...

4. If you have kept a record of your shopping prices in another way, eg a spreadsheet, and you want to share this, we would be very grateful!...

8. We need as many people as possible to contribute to make this work...

9. Please, for easier sorting, label your email subject header with the supermarket, the month and year, eg TESCO MARCH 2020. We are all volunteers with a mammoth task ahead, and we want to do the best job we can.
And I'm the only person here thinking this is a mad approach???
I think it's the approach of a campaigner doing something (and getting others involved) to highlight a problem so that the people who can do it properly pay attention.

tom p
After Pie
Posts: 1876
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 pm
Location: the low countries

Re: The cost of living

Post by tom p » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:08 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:57 pm
This is the thread outlining what the Vimes Boots Index is trying to do:

https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/statu ... 4282560518
CALL FOR EVIDENCE. In order to compile the #VimesBootsIndex, we need more data than my own collection of shopping receipts holds. If you want to help, please forward (removing your identifying info) any online shopping receipts to vimesbootsindex@gmail.com....

1. We need shopping receipts from the Big Four supermarkets: Asda, Morrison’s, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, from 2012-2022...

4. If you have kept a record of your shopping prices in another way, eg a spreadsheet, and you want to share this, we would be very grateful!...

8. We need as many people as possible to contribute to make this work...

9. Please, for easier sorting, label your email subject header with the supermarket, the month and year, eg TESCO MARCH 2020. We are all volunteers with a mammoth task ahead, and we want to do the best job we can.
And I'm the only person here thinking this is a mad approach???
It depends on what you think the actual outcome of this will be.
If the ONS were to port this self-reported stuff in wholesale, then yes, it's barmy. Are you so arrogant as to believe that you can see that, but they can't?

Conversely, if it's to get a better idea of the true changes in price of lower-cost items in a wider sample, but it's still being treated as partly fact-finding & partly publicity-raising, then it's a good idea.

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7527
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The cost of living

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:24 pm

lpm wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:50 pm
dyqik wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:40 pm
I've been talking about food. And only food. Monroe is talking about living on a survival budget where optional things like computer games, new clothes and travel are not affordable.
Survival budgets cannot be determined by looking at the spend of a single individual no longer on a survival budget.

The lower deciles spend money on computer games, clothes and travel. It's highly relevant. If you want to talk only about survival budgets then it would be better to turn this into a debate about food banks.

ETA as BoaF has just said.
This is all obvious, and also covered as far as food goes by my comment on Aldi, Lidl etc., where I mentioned shopping carts with some luxuries/convenience items. But Monroe is not talking about the lower deciles as a group, but the lowest percentiles/decile alone. Budgets where there are no optional expenditures.

I haven't actually stated that I think Monroe has things exactly right, but I do think that there's work to be done to make this distinction.

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:37 pm

Right, I've gone off and audited Monroe's price claims.

Which maybe the rest of you should have done before we started.

I've used Sainsburys online because I think that's the shop she uses. I don't believe any of the products are online only. I obviously don't know what prices a year ago were so only checked current prices.

https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/statu ... 6697909252

Pasta in my local supermarket (one of the Big Four), was 29p for 500g. Today it’s 70p. That’s a 141% price increase as it hits the poorest and most vulnerable households.
Agreed, now 70p for 500g, no value offering available.
This time last year, the cheapest rice at the same supermarket was 45p for a kilogram bag. Today it’s £1 for 500g. That’s a 344% price increase as it hits the poorest and most vulnerable households.
Wrong. Still 45p for a 1kg bag. Promoted as a "Aldi price match". Several other offerings at the £1 for 1kg level, can't see anything remotely like £1 for 500g.
Baked beans: were 22p, now 32p. A 45% price increase year on year.
Wrong. Down in price to 21p for a 400g tin.
Canned spaghetti. Was 13p, now 35p. A price increase of 169%.
Wrong. Still available today at 13p for a 400g tin.
Bread. Was 45p, now 58p. A price increase of 29%.
Wrong. She doesn't state sizes but the cheapest 800g loaf has now gone down to 36p in either sliced white or sliced wholemeal.
Curry sauce. Was 30p, now 89p. A price increase of 196%.
Not sure what product she's referring to. But a 440g jar of curry sauce is available for 45p.
A bag of small apples. Was 59p, now 89p (and the apples are even smaller!) A price increase of 51%.
How many apples? No-one knows. Looks OKish, a bag of six is available for 79p.
Mushrooms were 59p for 400g. They’re now 57p for 250g. A price increase of 56%.
That one also looks OK, ballpark, 86p for 400g which is a price increase of 46%. Are mushrooms subject to good and bad harvests?
Peanut butter. Was 62p, now £1.50. A price increase of 142%.
Size? A 340g jar is now available for 89p.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:45 pm

She's f.cked up. I'm going back to my original hypothesis. She went to her local supermarket at a time when half the warehouse staff and shelf fillers were off with Covid and there were lots of gaps on the shelves. Which she interpreted as price rises rather than a temporary glitch.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:57 pm

In maths, a shopping basket with one of each of the items Monroe mentions cost £3.64 a year ago.

It now costs, per Sainsburys online, £4.84. That's 33% inflation. Of that the pasta doubling in price is the main culprit.

I'm happy to assert that Monroe will have cherry picked her sample and the other normal things in anyone's shopping basket - bananas, milk, cheese, biscuits, frozen peas - will have lower price inflation on average than this 33% otherwise she'd have cherry picked them as well.

Monroe claims she spent £8.14. Her figures show 124% inflation.

Amateurs need to steer well clear of this. In her next book she's going to have a recipe for cooking statistics and getting an inedible mess.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
dyqik
Princess POW
Posts: 7527
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
Location: Masshole
Contact:

Re: The cost of living

Post by dyqik » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:09 pm

If that's all true, then it's good news. Of course, it doesn't change the underlying point that CPI inflation is only representative of inflation for the average consumer.

But then you have to ask if supermarkets are prioritizing higher markup goods during supply chain and staffing issues, and if there's the same availability in store for the cheaper options as the more expensive options.

Having the goods available for delivery with a day or two's notice isn't helpful if you can't afford the delivery fee or the minimum cart size for delivery, and/or if you can only get to the shop later in the day.

User avatar
nekomatic
Dorkwood
Posts: 1377
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by nekomatic » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:16 pm

So to summarise: it’s barmy to try and draw conclusions about inflation for people on low incomes from a bunch of people’s arbitrarily-selected supermarket receipts, and here is the arbitrarily-selected supermarket receipt that proves it.
Move-a… side, and let the mango through… let the mango through

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:17 pm

FFS, why do I always get sucked in to wasting my time on this sort of crap? Why can't the rest of you do a bit of basic checking?

Aldi.
Pasta in my local supermarket (one of the Big Four), was 29p for 500g. Today it’s 70p. That’s a 141% price increase as it hits the poorest and most vulnerable households.
Available at 20p for 500g. f.ck Sainsburys and their 70p.
This time last year, the cheapest rice at the same supermarket was 45p for a kilogram bag. Today it’s £1 for 500g. That’s a 344% price increase as it hits the poorest and most vulnerable households.
45p for a 1kg bag, same as Sainsburys.
Baked beans: were 22p, now 32p. A 45% price increase year on year.
22p, a penny more than Sainsburys.
Canned spaghetti. Was 13p, now 35p. A price increase of 169%.
13p for a 400g tin, same as Sainsburys.
Bread. Was 45p, now 58p. A price increase of 29%.
36p for 800g loaf, same as Sainsburys.
Curry sauce. Was 30p, now 89p. A price increase of 196%.
55p for a 500g jar (equates to 48p for 440g compared to Sainsburys 45p)
A bag of small apples. Was 59p, now 89p (and the apples are even smaller!) A price increase of 51%.
Bag of six for 69p (Sainsburys 79p).
Mushrooms were 59p for 400g. They’re now 57p for 250g. A price increase of 56%.
79p for 400g (Sainsburys 86p)
Peanut butter. Was 62p, now £1.50. A price increase of 142%.
89p for 340g jar (same as Sainsburys).
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

User avatar
lpm
Junior Mod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:05 pm

Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:25 pm

Monroe's shopping basket a year ago: £3.64

Sainsburys today: £4.84 (33%)

Aldi today: £4.21 (16%)

Monroe's claim: £8.14 (124%)

This is an open invitation for Tory MPs and tabloid scum to discredit this whole initiative. You can't campaign effectively if you're claiming a basket of goods costs double its actual cost at Aldi.

And it's worth noting how competitive Sainsbury's is compared to Aldi - 63p more expensive of which 50p is the pasta. It's not the case that the big four supermarkets are going off into a high price environment, the success of Lidl and Aldi is keeping them competitive.
⭐ Awarded gold star 4 November 2021

Post Reply