The cost of living

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Opti
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Re: The cost of living

Post by Opti » Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:10 pm

Everything needs strong spice or sauce. To me, anyway.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by JQH » Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:59 pm

Opti wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:10 pm
Everything needs strong spice or sauce. To me, anyway.
To me too
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discovolante
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Re: The cost of living

Post by discovolante » Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:24 pm

'I won't change anything that means I can't keep getting exactly what I have now' is an attitude that's probably worth considering when implementing public policies, but on an individual level it's kind of sad.
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Re: The cost of living

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:59 pm

I think reducing and changing, rather than outright banning, is generally the way forward for policy.

Damaging meat production is subsidised, leading to overproduction. If it were produced sustainably and priced appropriately, folk could still eat meat, but probably less often. It's already a status symbol. I don't think many people are advocating an outright ban on meat, but eating less of it (and ending counterproductive subsidies) should be uncontroversial.
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Re: The cost of living

Post by Bird on a Fire » Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:01 pm

I've also been very impressed recently with the availability of seriously unhealthy vegan food. I've had vegan cheesy chips, tacos, burritos and pizzas recently that have all really hit the spot - it's not all salads and mung beans.

But in terms of culinary excitement I do find that seeking out vegan options exposes me to a wide range of less usual ingredients. There are hundreds of plants, but most people only eat five types of animal.
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Re: The cost of living

Post by Opti » Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:54 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:01 pm
I've also been very impressed recently with the availability of seriously unhealthy vegan food. I've had vegan cheesy chips, tacos, burritos and pizzas recently that have all really hit the spot - it's not all salads and mung beans.

But in terms of culinary excitement I do find that seeking out vegan options exposes me to a wide range of less usual ingredients. There are hundreds of plants, but most people only eat five types of animal.
When I saw the kids a few days ago (who are insufferable vegans*) I was amazed that in the UK there is now a massive range of vegan 'junk food' available in the supermarkets. Fake Pastrami, Vegan Tikka bites ... so, so much processed stuff. The kids almost exist on it. When we left 2 years ago they were actually still cooking plant-based meals from fresh ingredients and we were looking forward to more of my sons excellent cooking. He doesn't really do that any more - and the processed stuff isn't cheap. Mind you, I wouldn't mind a bit more of the vegan filth being available here, just for a guilty snack.

* It's the 'I'm a vegan'-style T-shirts that I find most annoying.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by discovolante » Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:25 am

Opti wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:54 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:01 pm
I've also been very impressed recently with the availability of seriously unhealthy vegan food. I've had vegan cheesy chips, tacos, burritos and pizzas recently that have all really hit the spot - it's not all salads and mung beans.

But in terms of culinary excitement I do find that seeking out vegan options exposes me to a wide range of less usual ingredients. There are hundreds of plants, but most people only eat five types of animal.
When I saw the kids a few days ago (who are insufferable vegans*) I was amazed that in the UK there is now a massive range of vegan 'junk food' available in the supermarkets. Fake Pastrami, Vegan Tikka bites ... so, so much processed stuff. The kids almost exist on it. When we left 2 years ago they were actually still cooking plant-based meals from fresh ingredients and we were looking forward to more of my sons excellent cooking. He doesn't really do that any more - and the processed stuff isn't cheap. Mind you, I wouldn't mind a bit more of the vegan filth being available here, just for a guilty snack.

* It's the 'I'm a vegan'-style T-shirts that I find most annoying.
For what it's worth it's shoved all the gluten free stuff out the market so I'm sure it'll go the same way eventually.
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Re: The cost of living

Post by nekomatic » Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:48 am

I’m sure Tom Ravenscroft played some Vegan Filth on 6 Music last night </updated-joke>
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Re: The cost of living

Post by bagpuss » Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:44 am

Opti wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:54 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:01 pm
I've also been very impressed recently with the availability of seriously unhealthy vegan food. I've had vegan cheesy chips, tacos, burritos and pizzas recently that have all really hit the spot - it's not all salads and mung beans.

But in terms of culinary excitement I do find that seeking out vegan options exposes me to a wide range of less usual ingredients. There are hundreds of plants, but most people only eat five types of animal.
When I saw the kids a few days ago (who are insufferable vegans*) I was amazed that in the UK there is now a massive range of vegan 'junk food' available in the supermarkets. Fake Pastrami, Vegan Tikka bites ... so, so much processed stuff. The kids almost exist on it. When we left 2 years ago they were actually still cooking plant-based meals from fresh ingredients and we were looking forward to more of my sons excellent cooking. He doesn't really do that any more - and the processed stuff isn't cheap. Mind you, I wouldn't mind a bit more of the vegan filth being available here, just for a guilty snack.

* It's the 'I'm a vegan'-style T-shirts that I find most annoying.
Yes indeed. There's been reporting here in the UK recently that a lot of vegans are actually eating very unhealthy diets because there's now so much processed stuff available and that's much more unhealthy than eating a more meat based diet if you're eating plenty of veg and cooking everything from scratch.

Somehow the bagkitten has got it into her head that vegan = healthy and it's driving me mad. I keep pointing out to her that sugar is vegan and she knows full well that sugar is not healthy but the thought process doesn't seem to follow. Thankfully, she's not (yet) demanding that we all become vegan - she likes her fish, chicken and bacon* far too much for that.


Anyway, obviously the answer for most people isn't to give up meat, it's just to eat less of it and expand their repertoire of food to include more plant-based meals. Giving up something entirely is hard, eating it less often is a doddle and less often easily becomes even less often as time goes by, so whatever the x is that someone currently eats regularly and can't give up becomes a rare and occasional treat, enjoyed all the more because it's eaten so rarely. The bagkitten and Mr Bagpuss haven't even noticed that I've massively reduced our beef intake over the last couple of years. It used to be a rare week that we didn't have beef at least once, often twice. Now it's more like once every 2-4 weeks. And then I'm often making twice the number of meals out of the same amount of beef, by bulking it out with other meat or other forms of protein such as beans or lentils, or just using more veg with it.

The trouble is, if people drop their cooked-from-scratch beef cottage pie and replace it with a highly processed vegan ready meal because they find that easier than trying to learn new vegetarian or vegan recipes, we're swapping one problem for another. I suspect it's probably still the better thing to do overall, especially as people may then get more relaxed with the idea of vegetarian and vegan food and feel more confident to cook it from scratch. But then again, if Opti's kids have gone from happily cooking from scratch to eating processed stuff, I'm not so sure.



*Roughly in that order.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by Millennie Al » Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:10 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:01 pm
most people only eat five types of animal.
Fish, molluscs, crustaceans, mammals, birds?

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Re: The cost of living

Post by IvanV » Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:45 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:10 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:01 pm
most people only eat five types of animal.
Fish, molluscs, crustaceans, mammals, birds?
That's a somewhat uneven approach to "type".

Mollusc is a phylum, crustacean is a sub-phylum, and the others are, arguably, classes.

At phylum level, I think the top 5 would be, mentioning classes that I am aware people eat:

Chordates - mammals, birds, fish, sharks, agnatha (lampreys which aren't quite fish or sharks), amphibia (frogs), turtle/tortoises, snake/lizards, crocodiles
Molluscs - gastropods (snails, etc), cephalopods (squid etc), bivalves (mussels etc)
Arthropods - malacostraca (shrimps, crabs, etc), insects, horseshoe crabs, arachnids, barnacles
Echinoderms - sea urchins, sea cucumbers
Cnidaria - jellyfish

Though when I say top 5, I suspect that only 6 phyla are eaten, the other being annelids, which includes earthworms.

I've eaten all 5 of these at phylum level, and 14 at class level.* I was cowardly in refusing 1 other class that was offered to me once, which was really no more scary than some others I ate without qualm.

*When I say I have eaten insects, that's because I have eaten figs, which each contain a very small dead pollinating insect that is trapped by the fig. I don't count accidental consumption. I would eat roast grasshopper if offered to me.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:08 pm

It was a joke ivan
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Re: The cost of living

Post by IvanV » Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:32 pm

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:08 pm
It was a joke ivan
Indeed. But in this case I find the facts more entertaining than the joke, or truth stranger than fiction as you might say. Such things are a feature of Aspergerish people, who are not uncommon on this forum.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by Sciolus » Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:47 pm

It was a top-quality 386/356 crossover, is what it was.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by JQH » Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:38 pm

And I've had the first FB post saying "I bet the poor spend all their money on fags, take aways and Sky TV"
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Re: The cost of living

Post by bjn » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:58 am

JQH wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:38 pm
And I've had the first FB post saying "I bet the poor spend all their money on fags, take aways and Sky TV"
c.nts gotta c.nt.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by dyqik » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:26 am

Indonesia has banned exports of palm oil from Thursday. It supplies about a third of all global vegetable oil exports. With the war in Ukraine affecting sunflower oil prices

https://www.reuters.com/business/indone ... 022-04-25/

However it seems that crude oil might be excluded from the ban.

There's also been a near failure of the canola harvest in Canada and drought affecting soybean oil production in South America, which had driven prices up by 50% before this.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:47 am

Thank God we saved all that money not tackling climate change proactively.

The market will provide some Elon Musk Asteroid Oil mining scheme, and prices will stabilise at a local optimum. Nothing to worry about.
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Re: The cost of living

Post by monkey » Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:16 am

dyqik wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:26 am
Indonesia has banned exports of palm oil from Thursday. It supplies about a third of all global vegetable oil exports. With the war in Ukraine affecting sunflower oil prices

https://www.reuters.com/business/indone ... 022-04-25/

However it seems that crude oil might be excluded from the ban.

There's also been a near failure of the canola harvest in Canada and drought affecting soybean oil production in South America, which had driven prices up by 50% before this.
Not sure I want my crisps cooked in that.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by dyqik » Tue Apr 26, 2022 11:23 am

monkey wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:16 am
dyqik wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:26 am
Indonesia has banned exports of palm oil from Thursday. It supplies about a third of all global vegetable oil exports. With the war in Ukraine affecting sunflower oil prices

https://www.reuters.com/business/indone ... 022-04-25/

However it seems that crude oil might be excluded from the ban.

There's also been a near failure of the canola harvest in Canada and drought affecting soybean oil production in South America, which had driven prices up by 50% before this.
Not sure I want my crisps cooked in that.
I'm not sure "crude palm oil" sounds any better. That sounds kind of rude.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by plodder » Mon May 09, 2022 8:01 am


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Re: The cost of living

Post by lpm » Mon May 09, 2022 8:59 pm

But what about the investors who bought TSLA, NFLX and Bitcoin on leverage? They're the real sufferers here.
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Re: The cost of living

Post by bjn » Mon May 09, 2022 9:59 pm

plodder wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:01 am
In the meantime

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... rvey-finds
Just had an almost argument with MrsBJN who didn’t believe that when I mentioned the article. I had to dig a bit to find the relevants to convince her.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by IvanV » Tue May 10, 2022 4:17 pm

Michael Gove says that levelling up is made harder by an increase in inequality from the cost of living crisis. I bet he's ecstatic he can now explain why no reduction in inequality is resulting from their levelling up program, indeed going the other way. Now, conveniently, the failure of ineffective plans can be blamed on matters outside their control.

What the cost of living crisis seems to present, quite obviously, is a requirement for an increase in income redistribution, to address the increase in inequality. The logic is inescapable and obvious. It is not impossible to achieve. We are not at the limits of income redistribution. Among wealthier nations, several of our near neighbours do rather more. There is reasonable potential to increase it. But obviously, many traditional conservative voters will be worse off. We are all worse off. It is only reasonable to distribute the pain more fairly.

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Re: The cost of living

Post by Little waster » Wed May 11, 2022 11:59 pm

bjn wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 9:59 pm
plodder wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 8:01 am
In the meantime

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... rvey-finds
Just had an almost argument with MrsBJN who didn’t believe that when I mentioned the article. I had to dig a bit to find the relevants to convince her.
Don't worry it's all fine.

Tory MP Lee Anderson (basic salary £84k, plus £10k/year return from his investment portfolio and declared "gifts" of £7.5k in 2021) has announced that food banks are unnecessary as nutritious meals can be made from scratch for 30p a pop. Presumably gas/electricity and transport are also free on his planet.

Now if there was only some way of him demonstrating this by putting his claim to the test? Or does this also only work if he gets to stuff £50 into his bra first?

Meanwhile in other news I'm sure Mr Anderson can give us chapter and verse on why even the smallest tax rise on the very richest will completely disincentives all forms of entrepreneurship and skilled labour.
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