Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people

Are / Were The Labour Party The Same As The Tories?

Starmer Labour is the same as the Conservative alternative
1
1%
Starmer Labour isn’t the same as the Conservative alternative
42
45%
Blair Labour was the same as the Conservative alternative
2
2%
Blair Labour wasn’t the same as the Conservative alternative
38
40%
Cockend
11
12%
 
Total votes: 94

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:16 pm

Bit off topic but David Warburton taken into a psychiatric hospital

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60975624
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Opti » Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:49 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:16 pm
Bit off topic but David Warburton taken into a psychiatric hospital

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60975624
Below that story is a story about his 6 stone weight loss. Although the stories about his conduct are far from being proved, it is interesting that the substance in question is known to be associated with weight loss and mental health issues.
I'll give his hospital admission the benefit of the doubt for now.
Time for a big fat one.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:36 am

secret squirrel wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:22 pm
I often see people on the Labour Right asking the Labour Left to support essentially right wing policies with the goal of 'beating the Tories', but I did not see many on the Labour Right supporting policies they thought were too left wing when that was the only game in town for the same goal. Quite the opposite in fact.
Absolute horseshit. Anti-Corbyn labour came out to support Corbyn in 2017, knocking on doors and doing all the usual campaigning, and it made f.ck all difference to his entryist c.nt brigade.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:46 am

Iron Magpie wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:27 pm
Gfamily wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:11 pm
secret squirrel wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:22 pm
I often see people on the Labour Right asking the Labour Left to support essentially right wing policies with the goal of 'beating the Tories', but I did not see many on the Labour Right supporting policies they thought were too left wing when that was the only game in town for the same goal. Quite the opposite in fact.
You seem to imply it's only the Labour Right that are the ones at fault - "they keep asking us to support their policies, but they didn't support our policies"

But the Labour Right would say the same thing about Labour Left, how you're not supporting certain of their policies.

The issue though is that it's not a case of which policies does Labour Left or Labour Right want, but which policies do the people of UK want?
I would like to see some evidence that the left haven't supported the right even sometimes just by being quiet. There were no ejections of right wingers in the party under Corbyn yet the moment the right gain the upper hand they start slinging people out for having the temerity to be socialists. Corbyn has lost the whip for saying something that was expressly protected in the ECHR report and by interfering in the process Starmer has gone directly against it. Yet it's all the lefts fault according to those on the right.
This is absolute bollocks, as expected. Corbyn's accusation that antisemitism in the party had been overstated for political reasons itself goes near some uncomfortable antisemitic tropes, and is also entirely untrue.

As a reminder, Corbyn donated to an open and - in the far left circles he operated in - notorious holocaust denier. He invited the blood-libeller Raed Saleh to parliament and praised him. He worked for the antisemitic, misogynist and homophobic fascist Iranian regime, including after it became clear the propaganda channel on which he worked was complicit with torture. He hung around online in groups absolutely filled with conspiratorial antisemitism, and never spoke out against it. He engaged in conspiratorialism blaming Israel for a terrorist attack perpetrated by jihadists. His allies initially refused to take action against a council candidate that posted neo-nazi holocaust denial. This is also far from a complete list.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:03 am

JQH wrote:
Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:49 pm
The Left are expected to hold their noses and support Starmer which would be fair enough as he won the leadership election - if they had been prepared to hold their noses and support Corbyn when he was the elected leader.
They did, in 2017.

Unfortunately for Corybn, you can only ask people to hold their noses and vote for someone who constantly promotes racists and sides with anyone against his own country, including being effectively pro-Assad along with his sh.tty StWC mates for so long.

You might not like Starmer, but asking people to vote for him does not mean any comparable request to excuse and tolerate bigotry.

And it wasn't just Corbyn, it was his allies. It was people like Diane Abbott, who was happy to chair meetings on Syria where the Assadist line was followed, and Syrians were not only not invited to be speakers, but not allowed to speak from the floor. It includes people like Chris Williamson, who is currently blaming the situation in Ukraine on Zelenskyy being a "zionist".

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Grumble » Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:33 pm

FWIW I heard a cleaner in my office saying she voted Tory for the first time last election because she liked Boris and couldn’t stand Corbyn. These are the people you need to reach.
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Iron Magpie » Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:21 pm

Grumble wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:33 pm
FWIW I heard a cleaner in my office saying she voted Tory for the first time last election because she liked Boris and couldn’t stand Corbyn. These are the people you need to reach.
Stupid people you mean that would rather vote for a proven liar, adulterer and utterly unfit for office rather than for a man that has spent his entire career working for the downtrodden and underdog?
Yeah there's no reaching that level of stupid. Not without c.nts like Murdoch singing their praises along with the rest of the billionaire owned media.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Trinucleus » Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:37 pm

Iron Magpie wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:21 pm
Grumble wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:33 pm
FWIW I heard a cleaner in my office saying she voted Tory for the first time last election because she liked Boris and couldn’t stand Corbyn. These are the people you need to reach.
Stupid people you mean that would rather vote for a proven liar, adulterer and utterly unfit for office rather than for a man that has spent his entire career working for the downtrodden and underdog?
Yeah there's no reaching that level of stupid. Not without c.nts like Murdoch singing their praises along with the rest of the billionaire owned media.
I think Grumble means people who are so caught up in life's struggles that they don't have time or inclination for a detailed interest in politics. If they think Boris is a chummy sort of person but Jeremy isn't that's what they might base a decision on. Or it could ge that they're so sick of hearing about Brexit they'll vote for the person who says they will Get Brexit Done. Irrespective of their mental capabilities.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Grumble » Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:03 pm

Iron Magpie wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:21 pm
Grumble wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:33 pm
FWIW I heard a cleaner in my office saying she voted Tory for the first time last election because she liked Boris and couldn’t stand Corbyn. These are the people you need to reach.
Stupid people you mean that would rather vote for a proven liar, adulterer and utterly unfit for office rather than for a man that has spent his entire career working for the downtrodden and underdog?
Yeah there's no reaching that level of stupid. Not without c.nts like Murdoch singing their praises along with the rest of the billionaire owned media.
Dismissing people as stupid is not exactly a vote winner, it’s sneering.
Would you like your chakras realigned?

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Iron Magpie » Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:31 pm

Yeah I know, but I'm not trying to win any votes or trying to win anyone over. So there's that....

I'm also way beyond trying to understand the motivation behind people doing stupid things, like voting tory.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Trinucleus » Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:34 am

Iron Magpie wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:31 pm

I'm also way beyond trying to understand the motivation behind people doing stupid things, like voting tory.
I hope someone in the Labour party understands that, so they can work out how to win them over to voting Labour

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:12 pm

A quick reminder that the overwhelming majority of British jews consider Corbyn to be antisemitic.

Getting rid of his influence, and that of his cronies is good - politics shouldn't be about choosing which kind of racism is tolerated by those in power, and with the tories what they are, we need a consistent anti-racist party.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Allo V Psycho » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:07 am

I'm sorry this has got so heated, so, with some trepidation, I'd like to post a couple of points. I'm not a member of any political party.
Iron Magpie said
"As per usual EALs problems with Corbyn are with the people that he sometimes engaged with. And zero evidence to back up any assertions directed at JC himself".
I don't have any problem with left-wing economic policies. But I had a low estimate of the capabilities of Jeremy Corbyn when he was Labour leader, based on his own words and actions. I was not sufficiently aware of the ins and outs of who he had supported in the past, nor even able to comment on whether there was an anti-semitic streak in the Labour party, because I lacked sufficient information on it. Instead, I disliked him because he seemed to me to be unreflective and unanalytic. The job of a leader, I think, is to lead a broad coalition of disparate people in pursuit of a common agenda. I wish that common agenda to be virtuous. I felt Corbyn was demonstrably and spectacularly incapable of providing that unifying leadership. People he worked with very closely, Labour MPs, passed a vote of no confidence in him by a very large majority. At that point, it seemed to me that his only viable option was to step down. His failure to do so confirmed my view of his leadership qualities. I still voted Labour, though.

Starmer, by contrast, strikes me as reflective and analytic, indeed, intelligent. I don't always agree with labour policy under him, but then, the reason I have never joined any party is because I never have agreed with all the policies of a party. Given the nature of choices forced on us by the UK electoral system, any choice between a cruel, corrupt, incompetent and anti-democratic party such as the Tories, and A.N.Other, requires a wide tolerance of the A.N.Other's approaches, as long as they are not cruel, corrupt etc. in intention.

As an aside, I also think (though I do not follow the ins and outs of who said what, and who supported who) that the 'blood libel' is not a trivial matter, and certainly not comparable to unserious allegations about the marital status of parents. It has been used as an 'excuse' for pogroms in the past, and is still present as a trope in some right-wing circles.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by jimbob » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:22 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:07 am
I'm sorry this has got so heated, so, with some trepidation, I'd like to post a couple of points. I'm not a member of any political party.
Iron Magpie said
"As per usual EALs problems with Corbyn are with the people that he sometimes engaged with. And zero evidence to back up any assertions directed at JC himself".
I don't have any problem with left-wing economic policies. But I had a low estimate of the capabilities of Jeremy Corbyn when he was Labour leader, based on his own words and actions. I was not sufficiently aware of the ins and outs of who he had supported in the past, nor even able to comment on whether there was an anti-semitic streak in the Labour party, because I lacked sufficient information on it. Instead, I disliked him because he seemed to me to be unreflective and unanalytic. The job of a leader, I think, is to lead a broad coalition of disparate people in pursuit of a common agenda. I wish that common agenda to be virtuous. I felt Corbyn was demonstrably and spectacularly incapable of providing that unifying leadership. People he worked with very closely, Labour MPs, passed a vote of no confidence in him by a very large majority. At that point, it seemed to me that his only viable option was to step down. His failure to do so confirmed my view of his leadership qualities. I still voted Labour, though.

Starmer, by contrast, strikes me as reflective and analytic, indeed, intelligent. I don't always agree with labour policy under him, but then, the reason I have never joined any party is because I never have agreed with all the policies of a party. Given the nature of choices forced on us by the UK electoral system, any choice between a cruel, corrupt, incompetent and anti-democratic party such as the Tories, and A.N.Other, requires a wide tolerance of the A.N.Other's approaches, as long as they are not cruel, corrupt etc. in intention.

As an aside, I also think (though I do not follow the ins and outs of who said what, and who supported who) that the 'blood libel' is not a trivial matter, and certainly not comparable to unserious allegations about the marital status of parents. It has been used as an 'excuse' for pogroms in the past, and is still present as a trope in some right-wing circles.
Yup

Pretty much my view, but with added frustration at Corbyn's 6th form approach to politics, throwing red meat to his small constituency but alienating most of the electorate for no reason. The clearest example being when Cameron was messing up their response to the Cumbrian floods and instead of aiming at the open goal, Corbyn chose that time to float the idea that the Falklands might have joint sovereignty. Which played into all the "loony left" stereotypes, as well as somehow missing the point that of all colonies, ones founded on uninhabited islands hundreds of miles away from land, were not taken from anyone.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by WFJ » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:33 am

jimbob wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:22 am
Pretty much my view, but with added frustration at Corbyn's 6th form approach to politics, throwing red meat to his small constituency but alienating most of the electorate for no reason. The clearest example being when Cameron was messing up their response to the Cumbrian floods and instead of aiming at the open goal, Corbyn chose that time to float the idea that the Falklands might have joint sovereignty. Which played into all the "loony left" stereotypes, as well as somehow missing the point that of all colonies, ones founded on uninhabited islands hundreds of miles away from land, were not taken from anyone.
I would agree with everything in Jim and AVP's posts and add that despite his supporters' claims that he was a champion of the working classes, the constituency he mostly appealed to was middle-class university-educated student-politics protest types. While he proved to be electoral poison in the most working-class areas.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by bjn » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:47 am

Allo V Psycho wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:07 am
I'm sorry this has got so heated, so, with some trepidation, I'd like to post a couple of points. I'm not a member of any political party.
Iron Magpie said
"As per usual EALs problems with Corbyn are with the people that he sometimes engaged with. And zero evidence to back up any assertions directed at JC himself".
I don't have any problem with left-wing economic policies. But I had a low estimate of the capabilities of Jeremy Corbyn when he was Labour leader, based on his own words and actions. I was not sufficiently aware of the ins and outs of who he had supported in the past, nor even able to comment on whether there was an anti-semitic streak in the Labour party, because I lacked sufficient information on it. Instead, I disliked him because he seemed to me to be unreflective and unanalytic. The job of a leader, I think, is to lead a broad coalition of disparate people in pursuit of a common agenda. I wish that common agenda to be virtuous. I felt Corbyn was demonstrably and spectacularly incapable of providing that unifying leadership. People he worked with very closely, Labour MPs, passed a vote of no confidence in him by a very large majority. At that point, it seemed to me that his only viable option was to step down. His failure to do so confirmed my view of his leadership qualities. I still voted Labour, though.

Starmer, by contrast, strikes me as reflective and analytic, indeed, intelligent. I don't always agree with labour policy under him, but then, the reason I have never joined any party is because I never have agreed with all the policies of a party. Given the nature of choices forced on us by the UK electoral system, any choice between a cruel, corrupt, incompetent and anti-democratic party such as the Tories, and A.N.Other, requires a wide tolerance of the A.N.Other's approaches, as long as they are not cruel, corrupt etc. in intention.

As an aside, I also think (though I do not follow the ins and outs of who said what, and who supported who) that the 'blood libel' is not a trivial matter, and certainly not comparable to unserious allegations about the marital status of parents. It has been used as an 'excuse' for pogroms in the past, and is still present as a trope in some right-wing circles.
Totally agree with all of this. Among Corbyn's many failings one of the biggest was that he was simply not competent.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by jimbob » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:54 am

And even if one thought that Corbyn's ideas were better than moderate Labour, you don't shift the argument to your end goal by losing elections. And it's clear in many ways that there is a bigger difference between Starmer's Labour and Johnson's Conservative than say between Kinnock and Thatcher.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:08 am

WFJ wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:33 am
jimbob wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:22 am
Pretty much my view, but with added frustration at Corbyn's 6th form approach to politics, throwing red meat to his small constituency but alienating most of the electorate for no reason. The clearest example being when Cameron was messing up their response to the Cumbrian floods and instead of aiming at the open goal, Corbyn chose that time to float the idea that the Falklands might have joint sovereignty. Which played into all the "loony left" stereotypes, as well as somehow missing the point that of all colonies, ones founded on uninhabited islands hundreds of miles away from land, were not taken from anyone.
I would agree with everything in Jim and AVP's posts and add that despite his supporters' claims that he was a champion of the working classes, the constituency he mostly appealed to was middle-class university-educated student-politics protest types. While he proved to be electoral poison in the most working-class areas.
Here's some data: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... l-election

At least in terms of votes, at the last election Labour and Tories were both distributed pretty evenly across economic classes. Labour appealed more to the under 40s and the more educated, but I'm not sure a 36yo degree-holder is "student politics protest vote", and the tendency of Labour's centre to infantilise its left is pretty wack.

That said, I don't think the traditional view of "class" in the UK (do you have a degree and eat hummus and what do you call the toilet?) is at all useful for understanding party politics. Stuff like "what's your rent as a proportion of salary?" is more germane, and lo and behold it's young folks and cities voting Labour. Average age of first home ownership is 33 (and 30+ across the whole country), so Labour have tenants in the bag (and I assume most landlords are Tory boomers) - that's a meaningful class split in terms of workers vs capitalists.

Also interesting that Labour lost about as many remain votes to Lib Dems as leave votes to Tories. So trying to appeal to everyone didn't work in that case, and they might have been better off picking a side sensibly.

And despite all that Labour's vote share under Corbyn in 2019 was still an increase compared with Miliband. The 2019 election was heavily influenced by brexit, which the next one won't be. Starmer has educated younger people in the bag - to win the next election he needs to appeal to uninformed old people in leave areas.
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by WFJ » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:24 am

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:08 am
WFJ wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:33 am

I would agree with everything in Jim and AVP's posts and add that despite his supporters' claims that he was a champion of the working classes, the constituency he mostly appealed to was middle-class university-educated student-politics protest types. While he proved to be electoral poison in the most working-class areas.
Here's some data: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... l-election

At least in terms of votes, at the last election Labour and Tories were both distributed pretty evenly across economic classes. Labour appealed more to the under 40s and the more educated, but I'm not sure a 36yo degree-holder is "student politics protest vote", and the tendency of Labour's centre to infantilise its left is pretty wack.
I was using "student-politics protest types" to mean people whose main focus is on issues outside those that elections are won and lost on, rather than referring their age.

ETA: also I do not think that thinking Corbyn was a terrible leader disqualifies someone as being part of the Left.

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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:48 am

WFJ wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:24 am
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:08 am
WFJ wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:33 am

I would agree with everything in Jim and AVP's posts and add that despite his supporters' claims that he was a champion of the working classes, the constituency he mostly appealed to was middle-class university-educated student-politics protest types. While he proved to be electoral poison in the most working-class areas.
Here's some data: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... l-election

At least in terms of votes, at the last election Labour and Tories were both distributed pretty evenly across economic classes. Labour appealed more to the under 40s and the more educated, but I'm not sure a 36yo degree-holder is "student politics protest vote", and the tendency of Labour's centre to infantilise its left is pretty wack.
I was using "student-politics protest types" to mean people whose main focus is on issues outside those that elections are won and lost on, rather than referring their age.
Sure, but it's still implying that it's childish.

In the case of Labour, it's policies in the 2019 manifesto were very popular with voters, as long as they didn't know which party they were from. The issue was the marketing more than the substance.

I think it's easy to take for granted that Labour are better than the Tories on all the issues elections are fought on (except brexit). Huge numbers of people vote against their own interests because they're lied to.
ETA: also I do not think that thinking Corbyn was a terrible leader disqualifies someone as being part of the Left.
True, and I didn't think he was a good leader either. It's something I've normally seen from the right-of-corbyn part, but I guess dissing Corbyn supporters is possible from all parts of the spectrum ;)
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:07 pm

On a purely personal note as a tactical voter I voted for Labour in the 2017 general election if I remember correctly. Last few years my vote has been useless as my current area is a Tory stronghold with assorted UKIP types doing frighteningly well and a massive gap between the Tories and the runner up. My vote was mainly a gesture and so I could push other people to vote in their own area rather than being apathetic.

My one hope was that increasing support for Labour would at least enable them to oppose the worst excesses of a sh.t Brexit. Instead Corbyn was invisible on Brexit apart from spouting a few platitudes. I started off defending him from unfair criticism and eventually gave up as it became apparent just how awful he was.

Most of my family have voted Tory in the last few years. Even the young ones in council houses in Dudley who don’t have much money. But some of those only voted at all because Corbyn was the alternative. If someone there had been a slightly more palatable alternative they may have voted for them or, more probably, not bothered voting at all.

The reason I started this thread was because I am fascinated by people who, faced with the borderline facists now in charge, say they couldn’t face voting for Starmer as Starmer is just the same as them. That, to me, is delusional.

But maybe it’s me. All the Corbyn fans I know in meatspace (may not be a representative sample) put stuff on their social media making quite clear that they think that anyone who is vaguely centrist is a c.nt. Also anyone who has ever voted Tory ever. Also all Lib Dems and anyone who has ever voted for them are fence sitting w.nkers. Starmer is apparently as bad as Thatcher. Perhaps that is the strategy that will work to get the electorate on side. Kind of like:

“I didn’t like the Tories and voted Lib Dem last time. I was thinking for that Starmer guy this time but a load of Jeremy Corbyn supporters have said I am a moron and a c.nt for thinking that way so I’m not going to vote at all until they bring back Jeremy Corbyn.”

It’s a bold strategy. Lets see if it works.
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:23 pm

Opti wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:49 pm
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:16 pm
Bit off topic but David Warburton taken into a psychiatric hospital

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60975624
Below that story is a story about his 6 stone weight loss. Although the stories about his conduct are far from being proved, it is interesting that the substance in question is known to be associated with weight loss and mental health issues.
I'll give his hospital admission the benefit of the doubt for now.
Warburton lobbied for a Russian who loaned him £150,000 without declaring the loan

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/davi ... -tz8v0q3p9
Last March, David Warburton proudly shared a copy of a letter he had sent the Treasury requesting financial help for musicians during the pandemic. The Conservative MP for Somerton and Frome signed off his Instagram post: “Don’t ask, don’t get.”

Warburton, 56, a married father of two, chairs the all-party parliamentary group on music, having played guitar in an amateur rock band and started his career as a music teacher. He volunteers as an organist at his local church.

Days later, on March 12, Warburton sent another message, again using official parliamentary notepaper, once more lobbying a public body. This time, the letter was supposed to remain secret.

It was a character reference asking the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) to reconsider its assessment of a Russian-born businessman, Roman Joukovski.

Joukovski, 53, had made millions advising Russian oligarchs on how to secure visas to the UK and structure their wealth offshore. He had also lent Warburton £150,000 in 2017 at 8 per cent interest from an offshore trust in the Seychelles. Nowhere did the MP declare this financial relationship.
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Grumble » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:09 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:48 am
It's something I've normally seen from the right-of-corbyn part, but I guess dissing Corbyn supporters is possible from all parts of the spectrum ;)
Most of the actual working class is somewhat to the right of Corbyn, as evidenced by the comments of the cleaner I referred to up-thread. I realise she was only one person, but clearly illustrative of a broad enough constituency to use her as an example.
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:52 pm

Grumble wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:09 pm
Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:48 am
It's something I've normally seen from the right-of-corbyn part, but I guess dissing Corbyn supporters is possible from all parts of the spectrum ;)
Most of the actual working class is somewhat to the right of Corbyn, as evidenced by the comments of the cleaner I referred to up-thread. I realise she was only one person, but clearly illustrative of a broad enough constituency to use her as an example.
I'd be interested to see actual data on this, rather than assertions and anecdotes.

The data I posted upthread was about votes rather than political positions, and "social grade" rather than economic class, but with those caveats it doesn't seem clear that that's the case.

So, what's a working class and what do they want from Labour other than delivering brexit?
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discovolante
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Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison

Post by discovolante » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:10 pm

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... l-election
The Conservatives comfortably outperformed Labour across all social grades, further evidence that class is no longer a key indicator of how people vote. In fact, the Conservatives actually did better amongst C2DE voters (48%) than they did amongst ABC1 voters (43%). Labour performed the same amongst both social grade groups (33%).

This is a further realignment of voters by class that we first saw in 2017. The Conservatives performed equally well amongst ABC1 voters and C2DE voters (44%) two years ago, marginally better than Labour in both cases. Now they have improved their showing amongst C2DEs while achieving the same as 2017 amongst ABC1s.
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