Re: Labour/ Tory Party Comparison
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 11:51 am
Can you really feed 30 (or even 20 per MadNad) from the menu at The Spice Lounge, Durham?
Is there some inflation going on?
Is there some inflation going on?
The first DM story I read about this said that the original claim of "an order for 30 people" came from the delivery guy.Opti wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 11:51 amCan you really feed 30 (or even 20 per MadNad) from the menu at The Spice Lounge, Durham?
Is there some inflation going on?
What do you mean? Their main menu has like 5 pages of different main courses. You could easily feed 30 people without ordering the same dish twice.Opti wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 11:51 amCan you really feed 30 (or even 20 per MadNad) from the menu at The Spice Lounge, Durham?
Is there some inflation going on?
Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:42 pmWhat do you mean? Their main menu has like 5 pages of different main courses. You could easily feed 30 people without ordering the same dish twice.Opti wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 11:51 amCan you really feed 30 (or even 20 per MadNad) from the menu at The Spice Lounge, Durham?
Is there some inflation going on?
Haha yeah, if you assume I'm already familiar with the important numerical details of the story then you are indeed a big bobo.Opti wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 2:16 pmBird on a Fire wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 12:42 pmWhat do you mean? Their main menu has like 5 pages of different main courses. You could easily feed 30 people without ordering the same dish twice.Opti wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 11:51 amCan you really feed 30 (or even 20 per MadNad) from the menu at The Spice Lounge, Durham?
Is there some inflation going on?
Aaaaaah bollocks ... what I missed out was 'for £200. Idiot.
I think some people see Labour = political correctness = inclusivity = discriminating against me.Little waster wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 12:21 amjimbob wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 11:50 pmhttps://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... abour-swee
Including Johnson's seatPatrick English
Associate Director
May 28, 2022, 12:01 AM GMT+1
Latest YouGov MRP model suggests that if an election were held tomorrow, the Conservatives would hold on to just three of 88 battleground seats
But then you read:-
And you think what the f.ck else do the Conservatives need to do to lose the backing of these voters?Other constituencies sit on an absolute knife edge, with Labour’s predicted winning margin in each of Bishop Auckland, Scunthorpe, and Great Grimsby all less than two points.
You put yourself in the shoes of some ex-miner in Bishop Auckland and consider them watching the telly thinking:-
"Well my family all voted Labour since the dawn of the Universal Franchise, and the Tories turfed me out of work and ripped the heart out of my community in the 80s and 90s.
And then things got better for a bit but then the last 12 years of Tory misrule undid all that and instead we have had an unrelenting shitshow of austerity, political turmoil and economic stagnation culminating in today's double-digit inflation, shrinking salaries and rising taxes.
Brexit still drags on despite being supposedly oven-ready two years ago and while Project Fear's predicted downsides have turned up in spades, I'm still waiting on a single one of the promised benefits to materialise.
And now this, Tory MPs stuffing their boots with as much tax-payers money as they can, only pausing long enough to party with KGB agents, rape children or look at tractor p.rn, all presided over by that prize lying wazzock who now turns out spent the entirety of lockdown getting shitfaced and throwing up the walls of Downing Street, no wonder their response to the pandemic was so shite. I didn't even get to say goodbye to my brother.
So on that basis you can put me down as an "Undecided/Leaning Tory"."
Many people vote with the idea that the party they vote for should advantage their own subgroup of the population. It's kind of the point of voting. I think a large part of the traditional Labour vote base came out of the Blair/Brown years asking "what did they do for us?" The Gordon Brown/Gillian Duffy incident, where Brown was caught on microphone characterising her as a bigot, played its part in that. Because a lot of a voter base did identify with Ms Duffy.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... transcriptDuffy: We had it drummed in when I was a child with mine … it was education, health service and looking after the people who are vulnerable. But there's too many people now who are vulnerable but they can claim and people who are vulnerable can't get claim, can't get it.
Brown: But they shouldn't be doing that, there is no life on the dole for people any more. If you are unemployed you've got to go back to work. It's six months.
Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?
I really liked your post, thank you. Just one follow-up point.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:49 pmGiven Labour's current base, of younger, more educated, urban-dwelling people, they seem less likely to be racists and bigots than the Tories' base of rural old folk. So I don't think chasing the bigot vote is an important potential strategy for the party, really.
There was an interview with Brown I remember listening to a few years ago - I think it was with James O'Brien and he talked about his stance on immigration. I was really hoping that he'd say he got it wrong and should have pushed back on the narrative that immigration to the UK is inherently bad but he said he wished he'd been stronger in his opposition to it. It really frustrated me because I thought he was a decent PM and seemed like someone who honestly wanted to do what he could for people but he, like so many others, had bought so completely into the Tories immigration rhetoric that there was no sense that it was even a political stance, let alone one that could be challenged.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:49 pmOf course there are poor/vulnerable racists and bigots, just like there are wealthy/privileged ones. I'm not convinced that bigots are disproportionately part of the traditional Labour base (and I know that Ivan didn't quite say as much).
Given Labour's current base, of younger, more educated, urban-dwelling people, they seem less likely to be racists and bigots than the Tories' base of rural old folk. So I don't think chasing the bigot vote is an important potential strategy for the party, really.
What's actually happened is the billionaire-run UK media using divide-and-conquer tactics to trick large numbers of less wealthy people to vote against their interests, repeatedly, for rapacious plutocrats. And Labour have historically been crap at countering that narrative.
The Gillian Duffy case is illustrative, seeing as it's been mentioned:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... transcriptDuffy: We had it drummed in when I was a child with mine … it was education, health service and looking after the people who are vulnerable. But there's too many people now who are vulnerable but they can claim and people who are vulnerable can't get claim, can't get it.
Brown: But they shouldn't be doing that, there is no life on the dole for people any more. If you are unemployed you've got to go back to work. It's six months.
Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?
No attempt made by Brown to counter her concerns about immigrants overwhelming public services, which should have been easy as it's b.llsh.t. Instead he just tries to shuffle off, then asks her some pointless patronising questions about her grandchildren when an aide brings her back, before calling her a bigot behind her back. (And while I'm sure she didn't vote for Brown after all that, she was back voting Labour by the next election).
I found this: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/fil ... tables.pdf which has results for "would be happy for their child to marry someone from another ethnic group" by social class, age, qualifications etc.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:49 pmI'm not convinced that bigots are disproportionately part of the traditional Labour base
Seems to be going a bit far to assume that Brown had bought completely into the Tory rhetoric. He might just have come to that conclusion on his own.Fishnut wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 4:21 pmThere was an interview with Brown I remember listening to a few years ago - I think it was with James O'Brien and he talked about his stance on immigration. I was really hoping that he'd say he got it wrong and should have pushed back on the narrative that immigration to the UK is inherently bad but he said he wished he'd been stronger in his opposition to it. It really frustrated me because I thought he was a decent PM and seemed like someone who honestly wanted to do what he could for people but he, like so many others, had bought so completely into the Tories immigration rhetoric that there was no sense that it was even a political stance, let alone one that could be challenged.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:49 pmOf course there are poor/vulnerable racists and bigots, just like there are wealthy/privileged ones. I'm not convinced that bigots are disproportionately part of the traditional Labour base (and I know that Ivan didn't quite say as much).
Given Labour's current base, of younger, more educated, urban-dwelling people, they seem less likely to be racists and bigots than the Tories' base of rural old folk. So I don't think chasing the bigot vote is an important potential strategy for the party, really.
What's actually happened is the billionaire-run UK media using divide-and-conquer tactics to trick large numbers of less wealthy people to vote against their interests, repeatedly, for rapacious plutocrats. And Labour have historically been crap at countering that narrative.
The Gillian Duffy case is illustrative, seeing as it's been mentioned:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... transcriptDuffy: We had it drummed in when I was a child with mine … it was education, health service and looking after the people who are vulnerable. But there's too many people now who are vulnerable but they can claim and people who are vulnerable can't get claim, can't get it.
Brown: But they shouldn't be doing that, there is no life on the dole for people any more. If you are unemployed you've got to go back to work. It's six months.
Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?
No attempt made by Brown to counter her concerns about immigrants overwhelming public services, which should have been easy as it's b.llsh.t. Instead he just tries to shuffle off, then asks her some pointless patronising questions about her grandchildren when an aide brings her back, before calling her a bigot behind her back. (And while I'm sure she didn't vote for Brown after all that, she was back voting Labour by the next election).
A more complete transcript is at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 649448.stm which shows Brown countering her point with:Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:49 pmThe Gillian Duffy case is illustrative, seeing as it's been mentioned:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... transcriptDuffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?
No attempt made by Brown to counter her concerns about immigrants overwhelming public services, which should have been easy as it's b.llsh.t.
A million people come from Europe but a million people, British people, have gone into Europe. You do know that there's a lot of British people staying in Europe as well?
He had clearly completely bought into other tory rhetoric about free markets being gods & whatnot, so why not that too?Woodchopper wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 7:50 pmSeems to be going a bit far to assume that Brown had bought completely into the Tory rhetoric. He might just have come to that conclusion on his own.Fishnut wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 4:21 pmThere was an interview with Brown I remember listening to a few years ago - I think it was with James O'Brien and he talked about his stance on immigration. I was really hoping that he'd say he got it wrong and should have pushed back on the narrative that immigration to the UK is inherently bad but he said he wished he'd been stronger in his opposition to it. It really frustrated me because I thought he was a decent PM and seemed like someone who honestly wanted to do what he could for people but he, like so many others, had bought so completely into the Tories immigration rhetoric that there was no sense that it was even a political stance, let alone one that could be challenged.Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 12:49 pmOf course there are poor/vulnerable racists and bigots, just like there are wealthy/privileged ones. I'm not convinced that bigots are disproportionately part of the traditional Labour base (and I know that Ivan didn't quite say as much).
Given Labour's current base, of younger, more educated, urban-dwelling people, they seem less likely to be racists and bigots than the Tories' base of rural old folk. So I don't think chasing the bigot vote is an important potential strategy for the party, really.
What's actually happened is the billionaire-run UK media using divide-and-conquer tactics to trick large numbers of less wealthy people to vote against their interests, repeatedly, for rapacious plutocrats. And Labour have historically been crap at countering that narrative.
The Gillian Duffy case is illustrative, seeing as it's been mentioned:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... transcript
No attempt made by Brown to counter her concerns about immigrants overwhelming public services, which should have been easy as it's b.llsh.t. Instead he just tries to shuffle off, then asks her some pointless patronising questions about her grandchildren when an aide brings her back, before calling her a bigot behind her back. (And while I'm sure she didn't vote for Brown after all that, she was back voting Labour by the next election).
tbf, they did at least give us the winter fuel allowance.
True, over the course of 13 years, there were some good things (and a few bribes to old people in a way that is indistinguishable from tory tactics or those of any electorally successful government - the emboldened parts).jdc wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 1:44 pmtbf, they did at least give us the winter fuel allowance.
Sure Start.
Minimum wage.
Paid paternity leave.
Extended maternity leave and an increase in the level of statutory maternity pay.
Increased child benefit.
Child tax credit.
Free TV licenses for over-75s.
Free off-peak bus travel for over-60s.
Increased funding for schools.
Free nursery places for every three and four-year-old.
The issue is those achievements were often built on sandjdc wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 1:44 pmtbf, they did at least give us the winter fuel allowance.
Sure Start.
Minimum wage.
Paid paternity leave.
Extended maternity leave and an increase in the level of statutory maternity pay.
Increased child benefit.
Child tax credit.
Free TV licenses for over-75s.
Free off-peak bus travel for over-60s.
Increased funding for schools.
Free nursery places for every three and four-year-old.
No but if you fail to win (or even make) the argument that the good policies are good ideas why should people fight for them and why should the public care? If you fail to shift the dial when you hold the radio you can't act surprised when it doesn't play the tunes you would like.