Ukraine - International Brigade

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Millennie Al
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Re: Ukraine - International Brigade

Post by Millennie Al » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:34 am

TopBadger wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:47 am
AIUI the people volunteering to fight aren't going on a payroll and therefore aren't mercenaries...
Being on a payroll doesn't make you a mercenary (as defined by the Convention). Note that the Convention is an agreement between countries, so is biased to serve their needs. The criteria are:
2. A mercenary is any person who:
a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private
gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict,
material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to
combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory
controlled by a Party to the conflict;
e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty
as a member of its armed forces.
so volunteers who go to fight because of a moral objection to the invasion would not be a mercenary because of clause c), and also clause e) if the Ukranians accepted them into their armed forces.

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tenchboy
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Re: Ukraine - International Brigade

Post by tenchboy » Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:32 am

TopBadger wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:35 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:40 pm
Better red than dead, as my pa used to say.
Makes me wonder if cowardice is learned or inherited...

I'm pleased there are Ukrainians willing to fight to defend their country. Afghanistan would be a better place if its Army stood and fought the Taliban.
When the rest of the world is being swept along on a wave of deranged hysteria, it is a very brave person who stands up and says, to the end, "no, I will not fight, it is wrong to kill a man and I will not do it".
If you want me Steve, just Snapchat me yeah? You know how to Snapchap me doncha Steve? You just...

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EACLucifer
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Re: Ukraine - International Brigade

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:40 am

tenchboy wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:32 am
TopBadger wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:35 pm
Herainestold wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:40 pm
Better red than dead, as my pa used to say.
Makes me wonder if cowardice is learned or inherited...

I'm pleased there are Ukrainians willing to fight to defend their country. Afghanistan would be a better place if its Army stood and fought the Taliban.
When the rest of the world is being swept along on a wave of deranged hysteria, it is a very brave person who stands up and says, to the end, "no, I will not fight, it is wrong to kill a man and I will not do it".
Unfortunately that doesn't actually stop other people from doing evil things. Take a look at what the Taliban are up in Kabul in the last few days if you're wondering whether it would have been better if Kabul didn't fall or not.

Herainestold
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Re: Ukraine - International Brigade

Post by Herainestold » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:16 pm

Russia says it will prosecute foreign fighters as criminals.
"I wish to make an official statement that none of the mercenaries the West is sending to Ukraine to fight for the nationalist regime in Kyiv can be considered as combatants in accordance with international humanitarian law or enjoy the status of prisoners of war," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said Thursday, Russia's Tass news agency reported.

Konashenkov continued, saying that "at best, they can expect to be prosecuted as criminals." He warned foreign nationals "to think a dozen times before" before traveling to fight alongside Ukrainians.
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-vows-pr ... ne-1684671
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Herainestold
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Re: Ukraine - International Brigade

Post by Herainestold » Fri Mar 04, 2022 4:32 pm

Article in Lawfare blog about foreign fighters in Ukraine with references to the participation of foreign fighters in other conflicts.
Basic message, its not a good idea for a number of reasons.
The military record of foreign fighters is mixed. In many cases, they are zealous but untrained and do not come well-armed. They are eager for combat and (in the case of jihadists) martyrdom, but overall adding little to the combat power of their fellow fighters, especially in cases, like Afghanistan in the 1980s and Ukraine today, where there is plenty of manpower. Most end up as cannon fodder. In some instances, however, the fighters themselves come with skills—one report indicates that American and British special operations forces veterans are preparing to deploy to Ukraine—and this cohort can be far more useful. And in many other instances, foreign fighters become skilled through a brutal Darwinian process once they arrive to fight. The foreign fighters are often more useful in an insurgency, which Ukraine may become. For guerrilla conflicts, the foreigners' dedication is vital, and their more limited firepower is less of a disadvantage.
Nor are the foreigners necessarily good for the very people they seek to defend. One study found that when foreign fighters deploy, violence against civilians goes up. Far-right militias are already declaring they plan to exploit the war. Often the foreigners are more zealous and, because they lack friends and family in the community in contrast to host country nationals, they can commit atrocities without fears of reprisals against their loved ones.
In conclusion:
In general, private war is a bad idea even in cases like Ukraine, when there is a clear victim state and villain state. If governments believe Ukraine needs more support, they should provide it, not put the onus on individual citizens, especially when such fighters can make things worse for the country in question and pose long-term dangers. At the very least, it is vital for home governments to track those fighters who come and go from Ukraine. It is best for governments to encourage those motivated to help to dedicate themselves to fundraising, medical care and other vital but non-violent activity, ideally helping refugees and other vulnerable populations outside the war zones.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/foreign-fig ... -and-risks
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Little waster
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Re: Ukraine - International Brigade

Post by Little waster » Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:42 am

As an aside I came across a piece today about how in WW1 the Germans regarded neutral sailors on armed merchantmen as combatants on the basis they were in the pay of their enemies on a sort-of warship without necessarily performing any overt hostile act.

Assuming they survived the initial sinking/boarding, they were interned as POWs when captured.

This included Americans and was yet another turn of the ratchet for the US to join the war in 1917.
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