Scrutable

UK finally sanction someone

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... r-shuvalov

And Charity Commission queries Abramovich charity plans https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60571382

ETA

And Ukrainian born oligarchfound dead https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... -in-surrey

I can see this being a long thread

I'm all for depriving oligarchs of some or all of their wealth and the influence that goes with it. May we could practice on some of our home-grown ones. The news recently seemed to suggest that uk (and other) billionaires doubled their wealth while the rest of us suffered through the plague years. Time for a minor revolution maybe.

We're letting Abramovich sell his assets before we sanction him. Chelsea fans in the cabinet I guess

Trinucleus wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:09 pm

We're letting Abramovich sell his assets before we sanction him. Chelsea fans in the cabinet I guess

The argument for not moving quicker is pretty rubbish.

Freezing the assets for now and seizing them later if they're found to be ill-gotten. Isn't this what UWOs are for?

Trinucleus wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:09 pm

We're letting Abramovich sell his assets before we sanction him. Chelsea fans in the cabinet I guess

At least folk in the UK can rest easy, knowing they're in Russia's sphere of influence.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:30 pm

At least folk in the UK can rest easy, knowing they're in Russia's sphere of influence.

I quite like the idea of not sending the oligarchs' kids home from their expensive English private schools. I presume that would dampen any enthusiasm they might have for nuking London.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:59 am

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:30 pm

At least folk in the UK can rest easy, knowing they're in Russia's sphere of influence.

I quite like the idea of not sending the oligarchs' kids home from their expensive English private schools. I presume that would dampen any enthusiasm they might have for nuking London.

Well, at least they'd be covered by the Geneva Convention.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:59 am

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:30 pm

At least folk in the UK can rest easy, knowing they're in Russia's sphere of influence.

I quite like the idea of not sending the oligarchs' kids home from their expensive English private schools. I presume that would dampen any enthusiasm they might have for nuking London.

Oligarchs themselves, however, should be made to swim home.

The UK response can be divided into three areas as follows;

Sanctions: Very poor, it's not the sanctions themselves that's the problem, it's that introducing them slowly allows the ill-gotten gains to be moved out of reach.
Refugees: Extremely poor.
Military Assistance: Actually pretty good, supplied anti-tank weapons earlier than most countries, meaning they're already in use, and also trained Ukraine's special forces, who are now working behind Russian lines.

If the sanctions and support for refugees could be as good as the military assistance, we'd have a good response overall. Whatever political pressure that can be brought to bear must be. Obviously appeals to conscience won't work on people who'd already sold out their country through corruption, but it needs to be hammered home that they will lose more by being soft on Russia than they will gain in worthless rubles by sticking with them.

Will they, though? I mean, they're currently offering a safe haven to move dodgy money offshore (as the City of London typically does).

The UK seems most effective when it comes to trying to kill people far away. Helping people domestically or turning down money from c.nts isn't on the agenda of anybody important.

Russians living in Spain — of whom not all will be oligarchs, but many will have wealth of dodgy provenance — are running out of money.

The president of Nash Dom, the biggest association of Russian speakers on the Costa del Sol, is Svetlana Ciliuta. She says the situation is creating a great deal of fear among Russian people here.

“In Marbella, we have a lot of situations where the father works in Russia and the mother and children live here permanently, and he transfers money to the account in Spain,” she says. With little money in the Spanish account and their credit cards no longer working, even something as simple as going to the supermarket becomes impossible. “People are in a panic because they can’t pay their bills,” says Ciliuta.

TIL that Holland and Barrett (cf. this forum and especially its predecessor passim) is owned by a Luxembourg-based private equity company controlled by an oligarch. So we all have yet another reason not to shop there.

sTeamTraen wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:58 pm

Russians living in Spain — of whom not all will be oligarchs, but many will have wealth of dodgy provenance — are running out of money.

The president of Nash Dom, the biggest association of Russian speakers on the Costa del Sol, is Svetlana Ciliuta. She says the situation is creating a great deal of fear among Russian people here.

“In Marbella, we have a lot of situations where the father works in Russia and the mother and children live here permanently, and he transfers money to the account in Spain,” she says. With little money in the Spanish account and their credit cards no longer working, even something as simple as going to the supermarket becomes impossible. “People are in a panic because they can’t pay their bills,” says Ciliuta.

There's a Porsche Cayenne with Moscow plates (and a Maserati Ghibli with Italian plates) owned by whoever lives in the rest of https://www.myhomeincomo.com/modern-luxury-attic

So, who wants to be the first to explain the difference between a US billionaire political donor and a Russian oligarch. Apart from the behavior of Putin.

dyqik wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:42 pm

So, who wants to be the first to explain the difference between a US billionaire political donor and a Russian oligarch. Apart from the behavior of Putin.

The first typically made fewer donations to the GOP?

dyqik wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:42 pm

So, who wants to be the first to explain the difference between a US billionaire political donor and a Russian oligarch. Apart from the behavior of Putin.

I don't think there is a mahoosive difference, except for the othering vocabulary. And the fact that buying influence in a free-ish election is more respectable than buying influence in a dictatorship.

Sanctioning the oligarchs is a means of sanctioning the Russian regime. If folk wanted to sanction the US they could go after their billionaires.

U.S. billionaires mostly got rich through starting highly successful businesses.

Some got rich through inheritance of previous generations highly successful businesses.

Few got to be billionaires through criminal enterprise.

For Russian oligarchs the reverse is true. There were no new entrepreneurial businesses started. And no inheritance. All "made their fortunes" by seizing state enterprises and monopolies, often with murder and other violence, paying feudal dues to Putin himself. They are then run with corruption, bribery and blackmail. Every oligarch is a thief.

The BBC winds me up. In every article they say sh.t like "X made his billions by establishing his highly profitable fertiliser business".

lpm wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:05 pm

U.S. billionaires mostly got rich through starting highly successful businesses.

Some got rich through inheritance of previous generations highly successful businesses.

Few got to be billionaires through criminal enterprise.

Some of that last point depends on your views of tax evasion and the lack of prosecutions for cartel and monopolistic practices...

dyqik wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:15 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:05 pm

U.S. billionaires mostly got rich through starting highly successful businesses.

Some got rich through inheritance of previous generations highly successful businesses.

Few got to be billionaires through criminal enterprise.

Some of that last point depends on your views of tax evasion and the lack of prosecutions for cartel and monopolistic practices...

There is a difference between that and the nomenklatura

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:30 pm

Trinucleus wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:09 pm

We're letting Abramovich sell his assets before we sanction him. Chelsea fans in the cabinet I guess

At least folk in the UK can rest easy, knowing they're in Russia's sphere of influence.

Leave Roman alone. He’s so broke now he’s having to write kindle books.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ukraine-Russia ... 156&sr=8-4

So I was wondering why exactly punishing oligarchs will have an effect. This thread suggests that the oligarchs have limited political power and depend on their personal connection to Putin for their wealth. The more influential group are the "strongmen" (Putin's friends) who are distrustful of the West and may welcome the increased isolation that the sanctions will bring. Many of the oligarchs may simply adopt this position.
This chap disagrees.

Every time I read this thread title I hear it in Stewart Lee's voice, but couldn't quite remember the routine.

He's on peak form IMHO and it's super uncanny hearing his 2014 routine about then-Mayor of London Boris Johnson, oligarchs (and dogs).

Here it is on iPlayer and here is a link where you can actually watch it. ETA despite the url, wow... I just watched the whole episode without noticing I was on "adult noodle magazine". Could've been a risky click, but instead it was Stew at his acerbicly condescending best, with bonus interjections from Chris Morris. ETA2 deleted the link because I clicked again to check and all the adverts were verrry nsfw. What a rollercoaster. Why are p.rn sites hosting stewart lee content jeez

I'm not that keen on dogs either tbh.

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:02 am

jeez

I believe it's spelt 'jizz'.

secret squirrel wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:47 am

Bird on a Fire wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:02 am

jeez

I believe it's spelt 'jizz'.

I'm doing a kind of racist accent, like the one national treasure Andrew Sachs did in national treasure John Cleese's hit sitcome Fawlty Towers.

HE m.st.rbates TO STEWART LEE PERFORMANCES. HE'S FROM BARCELONA.

dyqik wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:15 pm

lpm wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 10:05 pm

U.S. billionaires mostly got rich through starting highly successful businesses.

Some got rich through inheritance of previous generations highly successful businesses.

Few got to be billionaires through criminal enterprise.

Some of that last point depends on your views of tax evasion and the lack of prosecutions for cartel and monopolistic practices...

Russia is a kleptocracy and although the capitalist system is geared towards protecting the super rich they still have to broadly follow the rules. Maybe "our" billionaires don't need to murder, extort etc in such a naked way because the system is more mature.