P & O

[Stranger Mouse]

Thread about the cuffs etc (which I didn’t think would be legal)

https://twitter.com/respectisvital/stat ... 34120?s=21

And footage of the balaclavas (although from the way people were talking I thought they were being worn to hide faces)


https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-03-17 ... s-800-jobs

[jimbob]

Thread about the cuffs etc (which I didn’t think would be legal)

https://twitter.com/respectisvital/stat ... 34120?s=21

And footage of the balaclavas (although from the way people were talking I thought they were being worn to hide faces)


https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-03-17 ... s-800-jobs

It does seem surprising to me

[Stranger Mouse]

Thread about the cuffs etc (which I didn’t think would be legal)

https://twitter.com/respectisvital/stat ... 34120?s=21

And footage of the balaclavas (although from the way people were talking I thought they were being worn to hide faces)


https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-03-17 ... s-800-jobs

It does seem surprising to me

I’m not even sure that memo about the cuffs applies to the P & O situation but it appear what all the reporting is based on.


Oh I found the cruise ship podcast. Quite something https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/f ... 0475421865

[bagpuss]

Apart from the seriously sh.tty behaviour by P&O, and PR disaster they've caused by stranding people at ports, there are safety issues here too.

Recently "redundant" P&O employee on Radio 4 pointed out that there were serious safety concerns with a whole bunch of untrained agency staff taking over the ferries. They may be experienced mariners but that doesn't mean they're experienced on ferries. I would hope that another Herald of Free Enterprise style disaster is not possible now but I'm sure there are plenty of ways an untrained crew member could f.ck up and kill some people.

[Trinucleus]

Apart from the seriously sh.tty behaviour by P&O, and PR disaster they've caused by stranding people at ports...

Includes a lorry from Yorkshire full of relief supplies for Ukrainians.

Well played, guys

[Fishnut]

The Guardian looks at the legal implications.

A couple of interesting bits,

...employers wishing to make more than 100 redundancies must notify the business secretary at least 45 days in advance of those dismissals. On Thursday afternoon, a No10 spokesperson said: “We weren’t given any notice to this.”
...
Redundancy notices are being issued, with the P&O apparently having recognised the unlawfulness of its actions with comments that enhanced compensation will be paid.

[TopBadger]

The Guardian looks at the legal implications.

A couple of interesting bits,

...employers wishing to make more than 100 redundancies must notify the business secretary at least 45 days in advance of those dismissals. On Thursday afternoon, a No10 spokesperson said: “We weren’t given any notice to this.”
...
Redundancy notices are being issued, with the P&O apparently having recognised the unlawfulness of its actions with comments that enhanced compensation will be paid.

Enhanced comp should just be the start... the directors need to be struck off and the company fined for flagrant disregard of the law.

[IvanV]

Enhanced comp should just be the start... the directors need to be struck off and the company fined for flagrant disregard of the law.

Flagrant disregard of the law is not, in general, a reason for disqualifying directors. Rather it is disregard for those specific things that directors must do, as opposed to people in general. So allowing illegally dangerous equipment to used, having staff without the legally required qualifications to do things that put people at risk, illegal pollution acts, ignoring planning laws, sexual harassment of your staff/customers, modern slavery, false advertising, failing to pay your employees, armed robbery, arson, mass murder, things like that, in general wouldn't lead to disqualification.

It's failing to do these things that might get you disqualified: List taken from a page linked from this Govt advice on director disqualification

allowing a company to continue trading when it can’t pay its debts
not keeping proper company accounting records
not sending accounts and returns to Companies House
not paying tax owed by the company
using company money or assets for personal benefit

Though it would also be reasonable to argue that getting disqualified happens far less than it ought to. Currently about 7,000 people are disqualified from acting as directors. This is small beer in comparison with the corporate misbehaviour that goes on. The number of people committing the offences listed above in blatant fashion is far larger than this.

[plodder]

Enhanced comp should just be the start... the directors need to be struck off and the company fined for flagrant disregard of the law.

Flagrant disregard of the law is not, in general, a reason for disqualifying directors. Rather it is disregard for those specific things that directors must do, as opposed to people in general. So allowing illegally dangerous equipment to used, having staff without the legally required qualifications to do things that put people at risk, illegal pollution acts, ignoring planning laws, sexual harassment of your staff/customers, modern slavery, false advertising, failing to pay your employees, armed robbery, arson, mass murder, things like that, in general wouldn't lead to disqualification.

It's failing to do these things that might get you disqualified: List taken from a page linked from this Govt advice on director disqualification

allowing a company to continue trading when it can’t pay its debts
not keeping proper company accounting records
not sending accounts and returns to Companies House
not paying tax owed by the company
using company money or assets for personal benefit

Though it would also be reasonable to argue that getting disqualified happens far less than it ought to. Currently about 7,000 people are disqualified from acting as directors. This is small beer in comparison with the corporate misbehaviour that goes on. The number of people committing the offences listed above in blatant fashion is far larger than this.

I think this is a fairly reasonable approach (the system, not the failure to prosecute). People who invest in businesses should do their own due diligence and criminal records are public documents. If someone breaks the law then anyone can find out about it including potential employees, investors, partners etc. If someone has a criminal record this shouldn't disqualify them from being self employed in the future.

[Fishnut]

The government knew, after denying they did: https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... says-union

[FlammableFlower]

The government knew, after denying they did: https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... says-union

Nothing about this government surprises anymore. I know it's trite, but it's pretty much reached the point where if they make a statement, you can pretty much assume the opposite to be true.

[headshot]

Labour and unions demand immediate action including suspending licences of parent company DP World

That’s quite the company name…

[Stranger Mouse]

Labour and unions demand immediate action including suspending licences of parent company DP World

That’s quite the company name…

I’m glad I’m not the only one with a filthy mind

Heard on the news that the plan is to pay the new workers under minimum wage even if hired in this country. I did a search and came across this decade old article.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nuses-tips

Crew on British cruise holidays who are paid a basic salary of as little as 75p an hour face having extra tips from passengers withheld unless they hit performance targets.

The boss of P&O Cruises said the move was part of a package to "make crew more responsive" and offer protection as tips dry up in the economic downturn.

Eta

More up to date article about the current situation

https://www.ft.com/content/d2910ca8-5bc ... a6355d99b5

[Stranger Mouse]

Grant Shaps and Quasimodo Kwateng write letters to a man who retired last year. That will show ‘em

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1504 ... 72966?s=21

[Lew Dolby]

since we have a government that's happy to remove Brit citizenship from brits who do dirty work for the muslim caliphate, how about they remove citizenship from CEOs, directors etc who do the dirty work of muslim states re P&O !!

[TimW]

Heard on the news that the plan is to pay the new workers under minimum wage even if hired in this country. I did a search and came across this decade old article.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nuses-tips

Crew on British cruise holidays who are paid a basic salary of as little as 75p an hour face having extra tips from passengers withheld unless they hit performance targets.

The boss of P&O Cruises said the move was part of a package to "make crew more responsive" and offer protection as tips dry up in the economic downturn.

P&O Cruises (now part of Carnival) has been an entirely separate thing from P&O Ferries since 2000 though.

[Stranger Mouse]

Heard on the news that the plan is to pay the new workers under minimum wage even if hired in this country. I did a search and came across this decade old article.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nuses-tips

Crew on British cruise holidays who are paid a basic salary of as little as 75p an hour face having extra tips from passengers withheld unless they hit performance targets.

The boss of P&O Cruises said the move was part of a package to "make crew more responsive" and offer protection as tips dry up in the economic downturn.

P&O Cruises (now part of Carnival) has been an entirely separate thing from P&O Ferries since 2000 though.

Yeah that’s why I emphasised the age of the article - it was just to point out that the sh.tting on employees in the industry isn’t anything new.

[Stranger Mouse]

This is glorious. Natalie Elphicke joins the type of protest she is trying to ban and ends up joining in with a chant of “shame on you” before she realises it is aimed at her

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/stat ... 94088?s=21

[Brightonian]

New P&O crews drafted in from Eastern Europe are being paid just '£2.60 an hour' to work on 'slave ships'

From RMT press release in April 2016:

2. Leave the EU to end attacks on seafarers and the offshore workers
The EU has promoted undercutting and social dumping leading to the decimation of UK seafarers. The same is now happening in the offshore sector. EU directives also require the tendering our public ferry services.

[noggins]

Thats Brexit in a nutshell isnt it.

Vote Leave so you don’t have to compete against cheaper Eastern European laboir.

Then find yourself with no employment rights competing against third world labour rates.

[noggins]

Also…

https://www.niferry.co.uk/first-new-po- ... china/?amp

[TimW]

Oh god, just when we'd all mostly forgotten about Chris Grayling...

P&O Ferries sackings: Change in law signed off by Chris Grayling meant P&O didn't need to tell govt, maritime lawyer says

[Woodchopper]

Deleted the content as it was posted in the wrong thread.

[Stranger Mouse]

They’re getting an absolute kicking today. Jesus. I think they’re tw.ts but I almost feel sorry for them.

Almost.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 42901.html

ETA direct live feed https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... edeedf6af1

ETA thread https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1 ... 6ZQ8o2u3nA

BEIS Committee chair Darren Jones kicks off hearing with P&O chief:

"When I was reading your biography, it seemed pretty light on your experience as a chief executive officer. Are you in this mess because you don’t know what you’re doing, or are you just a shameless criminal?"

[Stranger Mouse]

They’re getting an absolute kicking today. Jesus. I think they’re tw.ts but I almost feel sorry for them.

Almost.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 42901.html

ETA direct live feed https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... edeedf6af1

ETA thread https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/1 ... 6ZQ8o2u3nA

Just in case you think that tweet didn’t reflect the situation- video

https://twitter.com/benkentish/status/1 ... UmeogB2bwQ