NHS breaking point?

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Bird on a Fire » Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:06 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:03 pm
Stephanie wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:42 pm
Did you mean to continue the NHS discussion here?
No. Sorry. I intended to post that in the "NHS breaking point?" thread. Could any kind mod chop that bit off and graft it over there?
Done.
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Millennie Al
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Re: Who's next?

Post by Millennie Al » Wed Jul 27, 2022 10:56 pm

Martin_B wrote:
Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:14 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:39 pm
One of the ways to get more money per person for the NHS is to have it treat fewer people. If we could encourage those rich enough to pay for private treatment, it would leave the NHS with the money that would have been spent on them. This would require a major change in attitude in society - rich people would have to think that they shouldn't be getting free treatment if they could pay, or that private treatment was in some way superior.
That's spectacularly naïve.

a) You are essentially advocating for the NHS to deliberately provide inferior treatment to force rich people (who have already paid taxes to keep the NHS going) to go private.
Not at all. People fly first class even though it doesn't get there any faster than economy. People buy fantastically expensive trainers, even though cheap ones are just as good. Even in the area of medicine, have a look at the shelf of painkillers, plain aspirin, paracetamol, and ibupofen are cheaply available, yet there are numerous fancy alternatives whose active ingredients are merely those drugs but made fizzy or otherwise differentiated to persuade people to pay more.
b) You don't think that the Tories, as soon as significant numbers of people start having private treatment, won't reduce the NHS funding on the basis that "The NHS funding is X per patient and if they have fewer patients then they need less funding which can go towards my new car/wallpaper/duck island"?
Unlike the current situation where they provide plenty funding for everyone?

raven
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Re: NHS breaking point?

Post by raven » Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:19 pm

Little waster wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:14 pm
What the f.ck is £8 a person per day going to fund? Just picking the massive UCLH as an example that has 665 beds. Assuming 100% occupancy that’s a whopping £5320 per day versus on an annual budget of £1.4bn (or nearly £4m per day).

I imagine that extra 0.00125% funding will make an earth-shattering difference to the NHS.
That rather depends on whether it's meant to help reduce costs significantly, or whether it's meant to shift the Overton window so we all get acclimatised to paying.

Expect a lot more complaints about hospital food if it happens though.

(If you really wanted to charge for hospital stays, the obvious non-clinical thing to target is food, but you might find people forgo paying for it and order in...)

To dredge up the private vs public inefficiency argument again, I've bad experiences with private providers within the NHS. I don't know if any money was being squirrelled out of the country but I had certainly long delays for appointments, staff who seemed rushed and less experienced than the ones employed directly by the NHS, no continuity of care/never saw the same person twice. Of course you can get that in the NHS too, but I'd been seen by the equivalent NHS service right before it closed and so could directly compare the two. Private provider was worse all round in that instance.

Also had a scan at a local unit that I didn't realise was privately provided until I saw the consultant who told me the scanners they used weren't good enough quality, and to book at the hospital in future. That's obviously a problem.

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Woodchopper
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Re: NHS breaking point?

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:58 pm

Thread on the current problems and Covid:
https://twitter.com/paulmainwood/status ... o1l-w_ZRgw

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