Blyatskrieg

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EACLucifer
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:03 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:23 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:10 pm
...so it should be available in pods designed for M270 and M142 HIMARS
The should is what I was getting at with the question of it has yet made it to the factory floor... The promise of the system is clear (cheaper missiles with 3x range with large stock of components for production) but what wasn't clear to me is if the system is completed and ready to ship. If GL-SDB is indeed being supplied then I very much hope that it's MLRS ready in quantity (or is going to be imminently).

That being the case, I expect GL-SDB to be a bigger game changer than the tanks.

As for ATACMS - I'd be happy if the US gave them just two per month, to be used exclusively within Ukrainian borders - just that would be enough to keep the Russians worried.
It'd probably take a few more than that, as they might need to be fired in salvos to overcome air defences (the idea that ATACMS would struggle against air defences is floating around - mostly among a group of people who recognise that the idea that everything Russian is useless is not true but overcorrect significantly - is bollocks. It comes in very steep and very fast, like any ballistic missile. A significant majority of air defences systems couldn't even track it, let alone intercept it. S-400s might have a chance, but not against a salvo of multiple missiles). It's also important to note that the Kerch Bridge was built to support this invasion, and is designed for survivability, being effectively three bridges side by side, which also necessitates multiple hits.

For those wondering about GL-SDB, here's an image of what it's meant to be like. The front half is a well-established American guided glide-bomb, the back half is an old and in stock rocket booster originally used for cluster-rockets. The challenge is making the adaptors to fit the two together and getting them assembled and shipped. However, if the manufacturers can't get their act together to get this done, they should supply the Small Diameter Bombs with the appropriate software for ground launch, as I expect the Ukrainians, who have proven extremely ingenious and have many talented defence and missile engineers, could get them mounted on the boosters of Smerch, Uragan or even Tochka-U missiles.

In the meantime, whatever GL-SDB assemblies left over from testing should be supplied so as to knock out the bridge at Chongar and any other sufficiently high priority targets (things like landing ships and so on).

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Feb 03, 2023 1:44 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:53 am
Germany to approve the export of 88 Leopard 1s, also looking into buying 15 Gepards from Qatar to donate to Ukraine.
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany ... einmetall/
There's other countries with 1A5s in storage too, opening up the option of sending a lot of them. They aren't up there with Leo 2s, Challengers or Abrams, and they'd struggle against Russian tanks mounting Kontakt-5 reactive armour, but given that tanks are routinely used as assault guns in this war, they'd be useful, and likely they'd excel in that role. They've got decent forward and reverse speed allowing them to engage and disengage with the frontal armour towards the enemy (and their frontal armour will surely be enhanced by Kontakt-1 reactive armour bricks), and they carry about half as much ammunition again as a typical T-64 derivative. There's been cases where tanks acting as assault guns have had to go back to reload, and the Leopard 1 won't have to do that as often. In addition, it's got an accurate gun for long range fire, and if HESH is supplied - HESH works best with rifled guns like the Leopard 1s L7 variant - they'll be very effective against structures.

Some concerns have been raised about overall ammunition supply, but this is something NATO can help with as some countries still use the 105x617mmR cartridge, including Greece and Italy (Italy is also replacing its 105mm Centauro 1s with 120mm equipped Centauro 2s, which means they won't need big stockpiles of 105mm ammunition). The biggest supply, though, should be in the states, who have just retired their 105mm armed Stryker MGS, and will have time to replenish stocks before their MPF tank comes into service and starts needing 105mm ammo again.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by TopBadger » Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:38 pm

Last thing I read on tanks stated Ukraine claims 321 tanks had been pledged...
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Herainestold » Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:57 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:38 pm
Last thing I read on tanks stated Ukraine claims 321 tanks had been pledged...
All these pledges of new weapons do not appear to be deterring the Russians. I wonder what Putin has up his sleeve.
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by headshot » Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:20 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:57 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:38 pm
Last thing I read on tanks stated Ukraine claims 321 tanks had been pledged...
All these pledges of new weapons do not appear to be deterring the Russians. I wonder what Putin has up his sleeve.
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:41 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:38 pm
Last thing I read on tanks stated Ukraine claims 321 tanks had been pledged...
That's going to include a lot of modernised T-72s as well as modern tanks. Thing is, a modernised T-72 might not be as good as a western tank in certain areas (abysmal reverse speed makes retreating under fire difficult, armour is thinner though still pretty decent at the front, gun stabilisation in only one axis means firing on the move is inaccurate while western tanks use multi-axis stabilisation meaning they really can fire on the move and hit their targets), but they are still pretty decent, better than the partly-modernised T-72B3s Russia is sending, and radically better than T-62s. These include tanks from Morocco, and tanks refurbished in Czechia at joint American/Dutch expense (which might be the same tanks that are coming from Morocco) and some more from Poland.

Since that announcement though we've also seen talk of Leopard 1s - from German industry stocks, from Denmark, possibly, and potentially Belgium might buy some - there's some held by private industry in Belgium but the price demanded is apparently extortionate, but Belgium might fund the supply of some of the ones held by German industry.

Leclercs are also looking a bit more likely now, Macron's instructed the armed forces to work out how it could be done. There's a couple of hundred in storage, but I don't know what condition they are in. Mind you, some of the Leopard 1s in German industry's hands and the Leopard 2A4s in Spain magically improved their condition to become viable once it became politically possible/expected to send tanks.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:55 pm

Herainestold wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:57 pm
TopBadger wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:38 pm
Last thing I read on tanks stated Ukraine claims 321 tanks had been pledged...
All these pledges of new weapons do not appear to be deterring the Russians. I wonder what Putin has up his sleeve.
f.ck all. He has f.ck all up his sleeve that we don't know about. He'll probably mobilise more men, but he's walking a tightrope because the more men he mobilises the greater the political risk, and mobilising men doesn't turn them into soldiers, especially as the Russian training model relies on existing units training them, and not only are those units busy, a lot of them are just gone - the VDV had, per Russian sources, lost half their men through death, injury or capture by september.

We saw what happens when hastily mobilised troops are thrown into battle back in September, when the so-called "Third Army Corps" was sent in to try and stop the Ukrainian's Kharkiv Offensive - they disintegrated on contact.

Meanwhile tens of thousands of Ukrainians are getting trained in the UK and the EU, turning out properly trained soldiers without placing a drain on Ukrainians own training system, which is also training loads of soldiers. Ukraine does not have all their troops committed at this point by any stretch. Some veteran units are in refit, while others, like the 47th Brigade, are new, forming up and training and equipped with western kit.

The Russians launched a major attack on Vuhledar over a week back. So far, they've not succeeded in moving the front line. Though they are advancing around Bakhmut, their pace is glacial, and they leave their dead strewn across the blasted landscape to be scavenged by stray dogs. They have been doing so since July, and in that time, when they have advanced a mere handful of kilometres, Ukraine have liberated vast swathes of territory in Kherson and Kharkiv oblasts - just the cities of Kherson, Izium and Kupiansk have five times the population of Bakhmut, not counting all the other settlements liberated in those operations.

The primary goal of sending tanks isn't to deter Putin anyway. It's to defeat him. It's not a performance, it's a war. The goal of sending tanks - and artillery, infantry fighting vehicles, reconnaissance vehicles, engineering vehicles, armoured personnel carriers, logistics vehicles, missiles, small arms and all the other materiel of war - is to inflict such battlefield defeats on the Russian invading force that all Russian invaders on all of Ukrainian soil are killed, captured or forced to retreat to Russia.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:03 am

An facility - most likely oil storage - in Belgorod is having an interesting night, by which I mean it is entirely on fire and has been some time.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Imrael » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:26 pm

Different random tweets say attacked by helicopters, Vilkha missiles and an accident. The "nobody knows" phase I guess. Apparently neighbouring steel plant making Kerch bridge parts also damaged.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:15 pm

Video of Ukrainian tanker talking about the advantages of the T-84 Oplot

The T-84 is a Kharkiv produced upgrade of the T-80 design with a diesel instead of a turbine, and quite a few other improvements. It's notable that the two of the things most noted here are the high reverse speed and the ability to spin in place - both things all the Western tanks being sent can do to - a trick you sometimes see on publicity footage for the Challenger 2 is it spinning the hull around while not going anywhere, while the turret remains still and the gun remains completely steady. Western tanks aren't a silver bullet, they aren't indestructable, but they give a skilled crew more options with their high reverse speed, greater agility, fully stabilised guns allowing accurate fire on the move, as well as their greater protection.

Tank pledges are the moment are the better part of two hundred current-gen western tanks (Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and M1A2 Abrams)

There's also a hundred and fifty or so upgraded T-72s going, ninety odd being upgraded in Czechia and the rest from Poland.

And there's just over a hundred Leopard 1s likely available, and potential for more.

Not all these will be going initially, but it looks like we'll be seeing dozens of current gen MBTs and thirty or so Leopard 1s in the next couple of months. Training of Ukrainian crews on Challenger 2s has already started, with the MOD releasing footage of an instructional vehicle in use.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:31 pm

Imrael wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:26 pm
Different random tweets say attacked by helicopters, Vilkha missiles and an accident. The "nobody knows" phase I guess. Apparently neighbouring steel plant making Kerch bridge parts also damaged.
Claims of helicopters could be because people saw some active, but could easily just be because people remember the daring raid against a fuel depot in Belgorod back in the spring, where the helicopters, flying in at treetop height, were actually caught on camera firing the rockets that set the place alight.

Vilkha missiles would surprise me, as basically every report I've seen suggests that the entire stock of them was used up early in the war - they weren't properly in service yet, sadly. Those wondering at Russians timing for the invasion should take note of the number of Ukrainian weapons systems - Vilkha GMLRS, Neptune anti-shipping cruise missiles and Hrim-2 ballistic missiles - that were due to enter service over the next few years. Vilkha could also refer to the launcher vehicles firing unguided 300mm Smerch MLRS rockets. These would have the range, and a target as big as a fuel depot might be a viable one even for the unguided rockets. Another possibility is that the Vilkha rockets are back in production, possibly at very low rate. That would be brilliant if true, as it would give Ukraine HIMARS like capability without restrictions on hitting Russian targets. Vilkha-M would be better still, as it has rather more range.

NATO type GMLRS would manage such an attack, of course, but I'd be very surprised to see Ukraine use them on Russia. The Turkish MLRS they appear to have received in tiny quantities might be a candidate, though gods alone know where Turkiye stands on that - they've not been squeamish about sending arms to Ukraine, but they've also been happy to sell machinery to Russia, too.

Another possibility is sabotage groups, it's not a long way across the border. Maybe we'll find out at some point, maybe we won't. Fuel stores at a place that is still used as a staging point for the invasion and the manufacture of parts for bridge designed to support the invasion are both legimate targets, however they are hit.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:12 pm

Ukraine warned that Russia was completing preparations for a major new offensive this month as Kyiv signaled a reshuffle in its military leadership amid a corruption scandal that has rocked the Defense Ministry.

Serhiy Haidai, the governor of the Luhansk region in eastern Ukraine, said Russia was continuing to bolster its offensive capacity and bring in troops to front line positions while decreasing its rate of fire in certain areas to save ammunition for the coming advance.

“We can see that more and more reserves are being brought in our direction, we’re observing more military equipment that is being partly hidden in forested areas or dug in,” Mr. Haidai said in a TV interview on Monday.

Russia has in recent months been training thousands of mobilized troops in Belarus and parts of western Russia in preparation for their deployment to Ukraine. Mr. Haidai said signs indicate that this training is coming to an end and that Moscow has allocated two weeks for these new service members to enter Russian-held parts of Ukraine and take up positions.

“Starting from February 15 we can expect [a major offensive] at any time,” he said.

Ukraine has been steeling itself for a big Russian offensive for weeks. The lines of control in the east and south of the country had been largely static for months until Russia began intensifying attacks last month and pushed to surround the city of Bakhmut in the Donetsk region and oust Ukrainian forces from the Luhansk region to the north.

“We are expecting this push. We are ready,” Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said in a press conference on Sunday.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday evening acknowledged the scale of the threat his country’s forces face.

“The occupiers want to do something symbolic in February, to try and make up for their failures last year,” he said. “We can see this rising pressure along multiple parts of the front.”

The warnings come amid a large shake-up in Ukraine’s military leadership. The head of Mr. Zelensky’s Servant of the People party, Davyd Arakhamia, said on Sunday that Mr. Reznikov, the defense minister, would be reassigned to a new post in government. The head of Ukraine’s military intelligence, Major General Kyrylo Budanov, would replace him, Mr. Arakhamia said.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-wa ... 1675678163

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:46 pm

There's been a lot of talk about this lately, and it feels likely. In fact, I'd say the first elements of this have already occurred. There's been a significant - though unsuccessful - series of attacks on Vuhledar in which a formation that at least used to be regarded as a good one - the 155th Naval Infantry Brigade. There's also attacks in the vicinity of Kreminna, and Ukraine is now defending in that area. I don't think these are the main attack, but they are possibly attempts to pin down defenders or force reserves to be committed prior to a more major attack. The occupiers have also gathered somewhere up to twenty thousand personnel in the vicinity of Mariupol, likely to reinforce an offensive.

There's various ways an offensive could go, but it is quite possible it won't be a concentrated punch in one place to break through the lines but a steady increase in pressure by throwing in those mobilised who have not yet seen combat all along the front line. In addition, expect information operations, and be on guard for them - some journalists are extremely prone to taking Russian claims too seriously, but they've also recently been using fake Ukrainian accounts too to try and cause panic and despond. Gerasimov, who is now in direct control, is fond of information operations and they seem to have increased when he took over. Recent examples include claims of the capture or near capture of Bilohorivka and Vuhledar around the time attacks started - recent visual evidence confirms this is not the case as of writing.

Don't be too surprised if Bakhmut falls. It's getting more tenuous there, and the Ukrainians are at this point holding on for the same reason they held onto Severodonetsk - because the Russians are suffering very severe casualties, and the balance of attrition favours Ukraine. If Bakhmut's supply lines become untenable, though, a pullback will be needed, as happened at Lysychansk. The sequential group attacks favoured by Wagner see units engage and take cover when they encounter resistance while followup units and artillery then attack the resistance, however, the units that go into cover are proving exceptionally vulnerable to drone-dropped munitions. The Russian MOD appears to be looking into recruiting convicts too, now, and there's no signs yet of the additional mobilisation that propagandists insisted would be hundreds of thousands of fresh troops into the field to threaten the north.

It makes the most sense right now - at least from the information available to the public which is of course far from all of it - for Ukraine to wait for the Russian attack, fall back where necessary but seek to deny them the opportunity to break out and manoeuvre, to inflict as significant casualties and materiel losses as possible, and then to counter attack as the Russian offensive culminates. Ukraine has reserves, including experienced formations, and new formations with soldiers trained in the west and increasingly with NATO equipment. Within a couple of months, western tanks will start arriving and, more importantly, IFVs will start arriving in number. In fact, it could be that the Russian offensive is timed to try and arrive before the bulk of this western aid. On the one hand, there should never have been a slowdown in the rate it was provided and the rate it was ramped up to allow for this gap, on the other hand, if the offensive is timed around this, it suggests that Russian military planners are worried about the impact of western kit.

Things could be difficult for a while, but Ukraine is in a much better position than this time last year.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by TopBadger » Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:12 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:46 pm
In fact, it could be that the Russian offensive is timed to try and arrive before the bulk of this western aid.
Hmm - I could see that if the Russians think they can grab the rest of Donetsk Oblast and then sue for peace. But that seems like folly (both the grabbing and the hope Ukraine would agree to them keeping it).

If I were Russia I'd be digging in and taking the defensive role against Ukrainian liberation... put the attrition on Ukraine and see how it's western backers respond to seeing their donations turn to scrap. But perhaps that military option is denied to them by their internal politics. Or it could be denied to them by their own planners who fear what happens when a conscript army has their lines broken, it might be that they believe continuing their offensive is the only way to maintain any type of initiative and thereby stop a Ukrainian offensive before it gets started.
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:05 pm

Another Russian assault on Vuhledar seems to have failed. Talk of a substantial column of vehicles destroyed, and one presumes commensurate personnel losses. So far, there's footage of a couple of tanks destroyed and this image from the Deep State telegram channel.

Image

Once again the Russians are bunched up - this could well be to stick to a clear route through a minefield, but it leaves them vulnerable to dialled in artillery and anti-tank missiles.

ETA: there is more footage out there, it's about as pleasant as you'd imagine, so I won't be posting it. Two tanks managing to get their barrels tangled together before they both get blown up was an interesting example of competence, though. This is why I'm saying it makes sense to wait for the Russian offensive before Ukraine goes on the offensive - attacks like this will see them lose disproportionate amounts of materiel and personnel, and will be crippling to their morale, leaving them more vulnerable to a Ukrainian offensive.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:13 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:12 pm
EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:46 pm
In fact, it could be that the Russian offensive is timed to try and arrive before the bulk of this western aid.
Hmm - I could see that if the Russians think they can grab the rest of Donetsk Oblast and then sue for peace. But that seems like folly (both the grabbing and the hope Ukraine would agree to them keeping it).

If I were Russia I'd be digging in and taking the defensive role against Ukrainian liberation... put the attrition on Ukraine and see how it's western backers respond to seeing their donations turn to scrap. But perhaps that military option is denied to them by their internal politics. Or it could be denied to them by their own planners who fear what happens when a conscript army has their lines broken, it might be that they believe continuing their offensive is the only way to maintain any type of initiative and thereby stop a Ukrainian offensive before it gets started.
There's a trend developing in combat footage, and that's Russian assets getting destroyed in a single hit. Mostly it's artillery pieces, but a couple of the arctic variant of the TOR short range air defence system suffer the same fate. A drone is filming, and then a single blast, on or directly above the target, and that's it, it's done for. What these almost certainly depict is the M982 Excalibur round, a guided 155mm artillery shell. It outranges almost all of the Russian artillery, especially when fired from long-barrelled systems like the PzH2000, Krab and CAESAR*. Sitting around with a static frontline against those isn't going to be very appealing to the Russians, and nor is being on the receiving end of GL-SDB or continued GMLRS strikes. In addition, the more time goes on, the more western aid arrives - over four hundred tanks are currently pledged (inc. current gen MBTs, Leopard 1s and upgraded T-72s), and there's more and more talk of jets. Ukraine are also working on their own long range drones to attack targets deep inside Russia.

Russia is also suffering serious economic damage. Gas exports are collapsing. Oil price caps are working and are now proposed for diesel fuel too. So time is, in some ways, not on Russia's side.

*CAESAR production is up to 72 a year now, incidentally, so hopefully we'll see continued deliveries.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by TopBadger » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:37 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:13 pm
Sitting around with a static frontline against those isn't going to be very appealing to the Russians, and nor is being on the receiving end of GL-SDB or continued GMLRS strikes.
You make a good point given they are outranged by precision weapons and Ukrainian drone reconnaissance seems very skilled and follow up strikes are timely. I can see the argument of "keep moving or die".

But as you point out they're dying pretty effectively on the move too (by keeping to nice column formations with not enough spaces between vehicles).

The Russians withdrew from Afghanistan... I wonder what voices (if any) are seeing sense and are calling for withdrawal today.
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:46 am

Sounds like the UK will be offering training to Ukrainian fighter pilots. One can't expect results too soon, but it's a good sign - it's not clear if this is training existing fighter pilots to operate western aircraft (if it's the UK doing it, that would mean mean Typhoons or F-35s, or I suppose possibly Hawks or Tornados, though those seem a lot less likely), or if it is to take new recruits or pilots who aren't fighter pilots and train them to be fighter pilots.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:25 pm

Wallace has apparently been asked to work out what jets we can provide to Ukraine and pilot training to start as soon as possible, but also emphasis that this is a long term plan. That's hardly surprising, as converting existing pilots to western fighters would take months, training new pilots would take years.

Also talk of longer ranged weapons - hopefully that might mean Storm Shadow

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by TopBadger » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:30 pm

Telegraph reporting training on western jets - but doesn't say if for existing or trainee pilots. Of course we don't have access to MiGs so it's not like we'd provide training on those anyway.

But having a cadre of pilots ready to deploy in western jets is good. If jets do come (apparently Sunak has moved from 'no' to instructing the MoD to look into what might be provided) it means they can be put into theatre faster - and signals to Russia that the West has further gears to shift through in order to secure a victory for Ukraine.
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:37 pm

TopBadger wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:30 pm
Telegraph reporting training on western jets - but doesn't say if for existing or trainee pilots. Of course we don't have access to MiGs so it's not like we'd provide training on those anyway.

But having a cadre of pilots ready to deploy in western jets is good. If jets do come (apparently Sunak has moved from 'no' to instructing the MoD to look into what might be provided) it means they can be put into theatre faster - and signals to Russia that the West has further gears to shift through in order to secure a victory for Ukraine.
It's a massive missed opportunity that the west didn't collectively offer to take Ukrainians willing to volunteer - ideally those who could already fly something - and offer to train them up in the background. It would have sped the process, allowed for the expansion of their airforce, and wouldn't have removed existing pilots from the frontline.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:57 pm

There's been loads of things like this lately - SHORADS hit by an M982 Excalibur round This one's concealed in a shed, but evidently not concealed well enough to stop it being located. These rounds are expensive, but nowhere near as expensive as self-propelled guns and air defence systems. They outrange most Russian artillery - from a long barrelled system like Krab, CAESAR or PzH2000 they can hit out to fifty kilometres - and their accuracy is remarkable.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Formerly AvP » Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:54 am

IF NATO indeed is going to provide Ukraine with 'fighter' aircraft, I'd reckon the choice would probably be between Typhoons and F-16s (despite my admiration for Rafales). This site offers a nice simple comparison.
https://aerocorner.com/comparison/eurof ... %20F%2D16.
I would go for Typhoons, personally*. It's possible that there might be political advantages in using a joint European aircraft rather than an American one.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 pm

The Saab Gripen might be the most suitable aircraft as its designed to have Short Take-off and Landing capabilities so it can be operated from improvised runways (eg stretches of road). This makes them much less vulnerable to attack while they are on the ground as the aircraft can be distributed around the country rather than be concentrated at a few airbases.

ETA Harriers and AV-Bs can do that as well. But the British ones have been phased out whereas the USMC ones are being replaced by F-35s. I'm not sure whether the USMC would be willing to give up any of theirs.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:14 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2023 12:05 pm
The Saab Gripen might be the most suitable aircraft as its designed to have Short Take-off and Landing capabilities so it can be operated from improvised runways (eg stretches of road). This makes them much less vulnerable to attack while they are on the ground as the aircraft can be distributed around the country rather than be concentrated at a few airbases.

ETA Harriers and AV-Bs can do that as well. But the British ones have been phased out whereas the USMC ones are being replaced by F-35s. I'm not sure whether the USMC would be willing to give up any of theirs.
F-35Bs, with short/vertical take off and landing and low radar cross section, would be the absolute best, but also very unlikely.

Typhoons are pretty good at short take offs (good enough, in fact, that one option for the UK's carriers was navalised Typhoons without catapult launch), have very good radars meaning Russian AWACS and similar might be in danger well behind the lines, as a Typhoon could stay well on the Ukrainian side of the lines and still strike at significant distance with Meteor missiles.

For the most part, though, anything we send will be spending its life flying very low, hiding below the radar horizon and not crossing the lines due to MANPADS threat. In that scenario, weapon integration is more important than airframe - if we fitted Brimstones to a HAWK, it would be more effective than a Typhoon without them. We do at least know that Typhoons can handle Brimstones and Storm Shadows, though.

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