Blyatskrieg

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Woodchopper
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:53 pm

Most likely irrelevant, but...

One of the many US arguments regarding ATACMS was that it was reserving it as a means top react to Iran supplying Russia with ballistic missiles. (Russia makes its own but stocks are low).

The director of Mossad just stated that:
Speaking at an annual conference of the Institute for Counter-Terrorism Policy (ICT) at Reichman University in Herzliya, Barnea said Iran had intentions to provide Russia with short- and long-range missiles in addition to the UAVs that it sold to the Russian military for its invasion of Ukraine.

[...]

Attempts by Iran to also provide Russia with missiles amid the war were foiled, Barnea said, without elaborating further. “I have a feeling that more deals will be foiled soon.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/mossad-ch ... existence/

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:09 pm

Ukraine's recaptured the Boyko Towers rigs that Russia siezed after invading and annexing Crimea, capturing a radar system in the process. Not sure if they plan to stay, but a real sign that Russia is not controlling the western Black Sea at all.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:31 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:09 pm
Ukraine's recaptured the Boyko Towers rigs that Russia siezed after invading and annexing Crimea, capturing a radar system in the process. Not sure if they plan to stay, but a real sign that Russia is not controlling the western Black Sea at all.
I'd be very surprised if they do, just as I they probably don't keep a regular occupation of Snake Island, which I guess would be slightly more tenable.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Martin Y » Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:39 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2023 12:09 pm
Ukraine's recaptured the Boyko Towers rigs that Russia siezed after invading and annexing Crimea, capturing a radar system in the process. Not sure if they plan to stay, but a real sign that Russia is not controlling the western Black Sea at all.
I'm just watching a Ukrainian report on this (picked up by the Sun's YouTube channel) and happened to spot the moon was just past full, suggesting ths happened around Sunday 3rd give or take a day. I guess these were the marines and assault boats the Russians claimed to have destroyed. I really must learn Russia lies as instinctively as breathing.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:30 pm

Ukraine’s counter-offensive will be predominantly infantry-based in the fall, the head of Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate or HUR, Kyrylo Budanov, said at the Annual meeting of the Yalta European Strategy, which was held in Kyiv on Sept. 8-9.

"This is not Africa, we don’t have a rainy season (in Ukraine),” Budanov said in answer to a question about the Ukrainian offensive. He added that Ukrainian forces might have problems with wheeled vehicles.

“There are weather changes that have an impact, because it is more difficult to fight in the cold and mud. But let's look at the autumn of last year, when no one stopped fighting.”

In any case, the effectiveness of all types of armored vehicles has decreased due to the large number of portable anti-tank systems and kamikaze drones, Budanov said.

“Therefore, our offensive is mainly conducted on foot. It was the same last autumn in Bakhmut; we used minimal armored vehicle support,” he said.
https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukraine-s- ... 52717.html

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 13, 2023 4:36 am

Big overnight attack on occupied Sevastopol. Looks like dry-docks hit, meaning a Kilo class submarine and yet another Ropucha class landing ship are in deep trouble.

ETA: Ropucha class confirmed

Image

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:48 am

I’m assuming it was carried out by an upgraded Neptun. I hope they have production line making lots of them.

Looks like taking out the Crimean S400 and possibly the Boyko Towers operation opened the door.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:16 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:48 am
I’m assuming it was carried out by an upgraded Neptun. I hope they have production line making lots of them.

Looks like taking out the Crimean S400 and possibly the Boyko Towers operation opened the door.
A spokesperson credited their pilots, so could be Scalp-EG/Storm Shadow.

Also, to overcome Sevastopol's formiddable defences, a time-concentrated attack by multiple systems including decoys may have been needed.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:40 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:16 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:48 am
I’m assuming it was carried out by an upgraded Neptun. I hope they have production line making lots of them.

Looks like taking out the Crimean S400 and possibly the Boyko Towers operation opened the door.
A spokesperson credited their pilots, so could be Scalp-EG/Storm Shadow.

Also, to overcome Sevastopol's formiddable defences, a time-concentrated attack by multiple systems including decoys may have been needed.
If it was a Storm Shadow then where was the Russian air defence? I assumed that a Neptun flying close to the sea might be able to evade detection and that appears to be what they used to destroy the S400 system. But if they can get an air launched missile into Sevastopol then they can hit anything else there.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:49 pm

Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 9:40 am
EACLucifer wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:16 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:48 am
I’m assuming it was carried out by an upgraded Neptun. I hope they have production line making lots of them.

Looks like taking out the Crimean S400 and possibly the Boyko Towers operation opened the door.
A spokesperson credited their pilots, so could be Scalp-EG/Storm Shadow.

Also, to overcome Sevastopol's formiddable defences, a time-concentrated attack by multiple systems including decoys may have been needed.
If it was a Storm Shadow then where was the Russian air defence? I assumed that a Neptun flying close to the sea might be able to evade detection and that appears to be what they used to destroy the S400 system. But if they can get an air launched missile into Sevastopol then they can hit anything else there.
Storm Shadows have a low radar cross section, and fly very low for most of their flight. Typically they make a "terminal bunt", where they climb up a bit and dive onto the target, but flight profiles of cruise missiles are usually selectable from a range of options, including high altitude ones to maximise range where air defence isn't relevant, low altitude to sneak under the radar and so on. We can assume we don't know all the options for Storm Shadow.

The other issue is that air defence might have been firing at Neptuns. They were firing at something, but missed the incoming missile. Perhaps there were too many Storm Shadows. Perhaps there were threatening drones out there. Or perhaps they were trying to work out why that returning patrol of Su-30s had just turned into American B-1B Lancers...wait, no, now they are Tomahawk cruise missiles as those American-supplied air launched decoys exploit their ability to impersonate other flying objects.

Or perhaps the credit to the Ukrainian air force was partial, and they merely contributed to a salvo that also included Neptun. You are quite right to highlight the recapture of Boyko towers as key. One wonders - especially with fears of a new pacific war looming - if an uncrewed anti-shipping missile station could be developed to leave on small atolls and drilling rigs etc.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:36 am

Further to my previous post, retired US general Ben Hodges suggests that knocking out the radars on Boyko towers may have been what enabled the attack on Sevastopol. I don't think you get much time to react between a Storm Shadow popping up for its terminal bunt and it hitting, and it has a very small radar cross section from the front.

Whether missiles were launched from there, or if it was just a matter of removing radars, I don't think it's coincidence that this strike, and tonight's subsequent strike on Yevpatoria, occurred just after the Boyko towers operation.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Thu Sep 14, 2023 7:11 am

EACLucifer wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:36 am
Further to my previous post, retired US general Ben Hodges suggests that knocking out the radars on Boyko towers may have been what enabled the attack on Sevastopol. I don't think you get much time to react between a Storm Shadow popping up for its terminal bunt and it hitting, and it has a very small radar cross section from the front.

Whether missiles were launched from there, or if it was just a matter of removing radars, I don't think it's coincidence that this strike, and tonight's subsequent strike on Yevpatoria, occurred just after the Boyko towers operation.
This is an interesting thread

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1701 ... 39632?s=20
Mark Krutov
@kromark
🧵/ link in the last tweet. During the two raids on the gas rig(s) in the Black Sea, Ukrainian SOF may have captured one of the components of the Russian R-330M1P 'Diabazol' automated jamming complex.
4:50 PM · Sep 11, 2023
·
195K
Views
Check out this thread at Thread Reader App. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1701 ... 39632.html
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Thu Sep 14, 2023 11:05 am

The attack on Yevpatoria I mentioned in my previous post is being claimed as an S-400 (or possibly S-300, but most sources say S-400) knocked out by a mixture of drones and Neptun missiles.

Definitely an attempt to degrade the defences of Crimea to open up Sevastopol and, one presumes, the various airbases and logistics routes, up to Storm Shadow and Neptun missiles.

ETA: Russian sources also say patrol ship Vasily Bykov took "non-critical damage" from a drone, but with the floating drydock at Novorossiysk occupied and the drydocks at Sevastopol at the minimum full of shipwrecks, that could still put her out of action for a while.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by FlammableFlower » Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:39 pm


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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:26 pm

And a thread on Ukrainian attacks on S400 in Crimea yesterday

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1702 ... 82756.html
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:16 pm


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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:22 pm

Dertailed thread on Black Sea ship repair: https://x.com/grangere04117/status/1702 ... 1zY-PW4R9w

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:42 am

Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:22 pm
Dertailed thread on Black Sea ship repair: https://x.com/grangere04117/status/1702 ... 1zY-PW4R9w
Don't think the sub is going anywhere.

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1703 ... 31749?s=20
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:06 pm

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:42 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:22 pm
Dertailed thread on Black Sea ship repair: https://x.com/grangere04117/status/1702 ... 1zY-PW4R9w
Don't think the sub is going anywhere.

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1703 ... 31749?s=20
That tweet was deleted this hasn't
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/statu ... 6208881975

But do wonder why it was
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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by dyqik » Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:57 pm

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:06 pm
jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:42 am
Woodchopper wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2023 9:22 pm
Dertailed thread on Black Sea ship repair: https://x.com/grangere04117/status/1702 ... 1zY-PW4R9w
Don't think the sub is going anywhere.

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1703 ... 31749?s=20
That tweet was deleted this hasn't
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/statu ... 6208881975

But do wonder why it was
It also probably can't easily be removed from the dry dock, meaning that the dock is out of action.

Even deciding to scrap the submarine would need some serious effort to be able to float it out and scuttle it.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:13 pm

dyqik wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:57 pm
jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:06 pm
jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:42 am


Don't think the sub is going anywhere.

https://twitter.com/kromark/status/1703 ... 31749?s=20
That tweet was deleted this hasn't
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/statu ... 6208881975

But do wonder why it was
It also probably can't easily be removed from the dry dock, meaning that the dock is out of action.

Even deciding to scrap the submarine would need some serious effort to be able to float it out and scuttle it.
Indeed.

I also wonder how safe the head of dock security is feeling.

I assume it's not considered ideal for such clear damage assessment to be published to their enemies.
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by EACLucifer » Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:33 pm

jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:13 pm
dyqik wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:57 pm
jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:06 pm


That tweet was deleted this hasn't
https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/statu ... 6208881975

But do wonder why it was
It also probably can't easily be removed from the dry dock, meaning that the dock is out of action.

Even deciding to scrap the submarine would need some serious effort to be able to float it out and scuttle it.
Indeed.

I also wonder how safe the head of dock security is feeling.

I assume it's not considered ideal for such clear damage assessment to be published to their enemies.
On the one hand that's true, but on the other hand if you know you hit a diesel-electric submarine with a Storm Shadow, you won't be left with a usable sub. For context, Storm Shadow has a 1000lb two stage warhead. The first stage is like a high explosive anti-tank warhead, only dozens of times the size of a typical one of those. That blasts a hole into the target. That would generally be enough to destroy the integrity of a submarine's pressure hull. Then the main charge follows through with momentum into the hole created by the first stage and explodes within.

That's one less Kalibr carrier to threaten Ukraine and the world's food supplies.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by jimbob » Mon Sep 18, 2023 3:50 pm

EACLucifer wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:33 pm
jimbob wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 1:13 pm
dyqik wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:57 pm


It also probably can't easily be removed from the dry dock, meaning that the dock is out of action.

Even deciding to scrap the submarine would need some serious effort to be able to float it out and scuttle it.
Indeed.

I also wonder how safe the head of dock security is feeling.

I assume it's not considered ideal for such clear damage assessment to be published to their enemies.
On the one hand that's true, but on the other hand if you know you hit a diesel-electric submarine with a Storm Shadow, you won't be left with a usable sub. For context, Storm Shadow has a 1000lb two stage warhead. The first stage is like a high explosive anti-tank warhead, only dozens of times the size of a typical one of those. That blasts a hole into the target. That would generally be enough to destroy the integrity of a submarine's pressure hull. Then the main charge follows through with momentum into the hole created by the first stage and explodes within.

That's one less Kalibr carrier to threaten Ukraine and the world's food supplies.
It's more, if they are taking those photographs, what else is getting out. And it was hard to tell how badly the sub had been damaged from the satellite images
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by bjn » Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:06 pm

Looks like the Russian Black Sea Fleet HQ took at least two missles, possibly Stormshadows/SCALPS. Apparently the Admiral of the fleet is missing.

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Re: Blyatskrieg

Post by Martin Y » Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:15 pm

I had read that the Russians said one sailor was missing. The idea that it's the top guy is astounding. Maybe they meant one missing guy beside whom all the other missing don't matter.

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