Blyatskrieg
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:01 pm
For military/technical discussions of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, per mod suggestion they be in a separate thread to the political/humanitarian ones.
Seems sensible.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:01 pmFor military/technical discussions of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, per mod suggestion they be in a separate thread to the political/humanitarian ones.
Probably coincidental, but air/rocket deployed landmines take everything that's wrong with landmines and worsen it. They look like this.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:08 pmSeems sensible.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:01 pmFor military/technical discussions of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, per mod suggestion they be in a separate thread to the political/humanitarian ones.
It’s not a subject which particularly interests me (although I am interested in every subject in the universe at least a tiny bit) but I think it’s helpful to discuss this stuff. I have seen no evidence that people who discuss it are deranged psychopaths.
One question I have is about those mines that look like toys. Is that intentional or coincidental? Or is “coincidental “ an excuse to cover intention?
Clip has a musical soundtrack. War as entertainment.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:38 pmOne important thing to note about this war, especially when it comes to footage reaching western eyes, is that it is a lot more symmetrical and a lot more conventional than people think. Yes, there are light infantry going to hunt tanks with a plethora of shoulder-launched weapons. There's also things like this, which are much less documented - Ukrainian tanks and mechanised infantry firing and manoeuvring as they advance
(Clip contains footage of a tank firing, but no casualties or anything like that)
I must admit I’ve found the addition of music to some of these clips very distasteful and have often not shared them on that basis but sometimes it’s unavoidable if you want to point out a particular thing.basementer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:15 pmClip has a musical soundtrack. War as entertainment.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:38 pmOne important thing to note about this war, especially when it comes to footage reaching western eyes, is that it is a lot more symmetrical and a lot more conventional than people think. Yes, there are light infantry going to hunt tanks with a plethora of shoulder-launched weapons. There's also things like this, which are much less documented - Ukrainian tanks and mechanised infantry firing and manoeuvring as they advance
(Clip contains footage of a tank firing, but no casualties or anything like that)
Indeed. The other clip I had available to demonstrate the fact that many were getting a skewed impression of the nature of the conflict didn't have music, but it did have Russian vehicles being destroyed when a camouflaged Ukrainian tank ambushed a column retreating out of norther Ukraine, and I reasoned that a clip with music, while perhaps distasteful, was going to bother people less than a clip with casualties occuring.Stranger Mouse wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:31 pmI must admit I’ve found the addition of music to some of these clips very distasteful and have often not shared them on that basis but sometimes it’s unavoidable if you want to point out a particular thing.basementer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:15 pmClip has a musical soundtrack. War as entertainment.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:38 pmOne important thing to note about this war, especially when it comes to footage reaching western eyes, is that it is a lot more symmetrical and a lot more conventional than people think. Yes, there are light infantry going to hunt tanks with a plethora of shoulder-launched weapons. There's also things like this, which are much less documented - Ukrainian tanks and mechanised infantry firing and manoeuvring as they advance
(Clip contains footage of a tank firing, but no casualties or anything like that)
Evidence came out about a week back of a transport helicopter shootdown in that area, so it certainly appears to be the case, and sadly not all such flights got through unscathed.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:46 amThe Ukrainians have claimed that they have been flying helicopters in and out of Mariupol. If that’s true it’s another major failure by Russia. Though it could be Ukrainian trolling (perhaps designed to get Russia to move air defence units there).
For now, this war will be fought with a mix of NATO and Warsaw Pact equipment standards, and though that's awkward, it's by no means as impossible to combine the two in one army as some people seem to think.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:33 amhttps://www.ft.com/content/1c0e6e15-c8f ... b6836bf0f4
Nato member states have agreed to supply new types of advanced weaponry to Ukraine, alliance representatives said, as Kyiv prepares for an offensive by Russia in the country’s east.
[…]
Liz Truss, UK foreign secretary, told reporters after the meeting that member states had backed giving more weapons.
“There was support for countries to supply new and heavier equipment to Ukraine, so that they can respond to these new threats from Russia,” she said. “And we agreed to help Ukrainian forces move from their Soviet-era equipment to Nato standard equipment, on a bilateral basis.”
Antony Blinken, US secretary of state, said Washington was looking at sending “new systems” to Ukraine.
“We are not going to let anything stand in the way of getting Ukrainians what they need,” he said. “We are looking across the board right now, not only at what we have provided . . . [but] whether there are additional systems that would make a difference.”
Moving Ukraine to NATO standard equipment is a good ambition, though it’ll take years.
From what I'd heard the Ukrainians had been running nightly supply/rescue flights at night for weeks without the Russians cottoning on.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:51 amEvidence came out about a week back of a transport helicopter shootdown in that area, so it certainly appears to be the case, and sadly not all such flights got through unscathed.Woodchopper wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:46 amThe Ukrainians have claimed that they have been flying helicopters in and out of Mariupol. If that’s true it’s another major failure by Russia. Though it could be Ukrainian trolling (perhaps designed to get Russia to move air defence units there).
I suspect that its also due to time horizons having shifted. Back in late February and March the emphasis was on sending material that could be used within days to defend Kyiv. Now there is time to consider Ukraine's long term needs.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:33 am
Opinion does seem to be finally moving towards supplying proper arms to Ukraine at last - likely because Ukraine have showed they are capable of winning battles - and old Warsaw Pact type equipment is neither advanced enough or available in sufficient supply to get the job done on its own.
Yes, they'll be useful.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:33 amThe UK is also now talking about sending Mastiffs and Jackals, armoured patrol and recon vehicles rushed into service to replace the Snatch Land Rovers due to the latter's vulnerability to mines. This ought to have been done a while ago - the Mastiffs and Jackals are surplus to requirements here.
More than "apparently" - both Slovakia and Ukraine have confirmed it.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:18 amSlovakia apparently has now sent at least one S300 SAM system. Ukraine's air defence has been amazing so far; Russian planes currently daren't fly over western Ukraine, and that means they are forced to rely on ballistic and cruise missiles to attack those area, which in turn means things like shipments of military aid are basically impossible for them to hit, as they have no capabilities against moving targets in the west of the country. Hopefully, between the numerous MANPADS and much more capable systems like the S300, that can be extended eastwards to limit Russia's ability to target frontline units and bomb cities like Mariupol.
ETA: This was something where Lavrov was very upset about the potential for it happening and claimed Russia wouldn't allow it...and yet.
I’m sure we’ll be hearing about more Russian generals getting knocked off soon.jimbob wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:01 pmMore than "apparently" - both Slovakia and Ukraine have confirmed it.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:18 amSlovakia apparently has now sent at least one S300 SAM system. Ukraine's air defence has been amazing so far; Russian planes currently daren't fly over western Ukraine, and that means they are forced to rely on ballistic and cruise missiles to attack those area, which in turn means things like shipments of military aid are basically impossible for them to hit, as they have no capabilities against moving targets in the west of the country. Hopefully, between the numerous MANPADS and much more capable systems like the S300, that can be extended eastwards to limit Russia's ability to target frontline units and bomb cities like Mariupol.
ETA: This was something where Lavrov was very upset about the potential for it happening and claimed Russia wouldn't allow it...and yet.
it looks that the US is sending the 40km-range (90km with the drones also supplied) Switchblade-600
as well as the shorter ones
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambl ... raine-war/
I expect arms manufacturers are vigorously lobbying to get their products supplied to Ukraine. They know that demonstrating usefulness in Ukraine will generate sales for decades to come. I suspect that this, rather than statesmanship, is behind Boris Johnson's enthusiasm for Britain providing weapons to Ukraine. Considering his record, it would be surprising if he was getting this right for the right reasons.
Are these anti-ship missiles launched from land or air?EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:57 pmUK to send 120 armoured vehicles and "new anti-ship missiles". I suspect those 120 armoured vehicles are probably the armoured patrol/reconnaissance vehicles already announced, surplus to requirements Jackals and Mastiffs, which ought to be useful.
I don't know. The UK isn't terribly well off for anti-ship missiles. British Harpoons are basically past their expiry date, and the government decided to can an interim replacement, meaning the capability won't be replaced for a decade or so - presumably we can politely ask people not to hassle us with ships in the meantime.Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:04 pmAre these anti-ship missiles launched from land or air?EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:57 pmUK to send 120 armoured vehicles and "new anti-ship missiles". I suspect those 120 armoured vehicles are probably the armoured patrol/reconnaissance vehicles already announced, surplus to requirements Jackals and Mastiffs, which ought to be useful.
The Argentinians removed an Exocet missile launcher from a damaged warship during the the Falklands war, flew it to the Falklands and (after two failed launches) hit HMS Glamorgan. So not impossible.EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:12 pmI don't know. The UK isn't terribly well off for anti-ship missiles. British Harpoons are basically past their expiry date, and the government decided to can an interim replacement, meaning the capability won't be replaced for a decade or so - presumably we can politely ask people not to hassle us with ships in the meantime.Grumble wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:04 pmAre these anti-ship missiles launched from land or air?EACLucifer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:57 pmUK to send 120 armoured vehicles and "new anti-ship missiles". I suspect those 120 armoured vehicles are probably the armoured patrol/reconnaissance vehicles already announced, surplus to requirements Jackals and Mastiffs, which ought to be useful.
There's also Sea Spear, which is as Brimstone derivative, but that's more of an anti-boat missile than an anti-ship missile. Sea Spear would be extremely offensive against a Russian style amphibious landing with amphibious APCs, but it's not going to do much about ships like Moskva bombarding Ukraine from the Black Sea in the way that Harpoons or Exocets would.
ETA: Some people are saying it is Harpoon, but that will take quite a lot of jerry rigging to come up with a functional land-based launcher.
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status ... 4881289216🧵Looking at the images released by @Maxar of the convoy and it being 13km long, I estimate it to consist of ≈ 400 Russian vehicles.
This image is 49.997077, 37.397610 and length photographed is ≈500m. There are 16 vehicles total (10 trucks, 6 armored vehicles). 1/ https://t.co/ri7bd1S6mN