Non Doms

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
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TopBadger
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Non Doms

Post by TopBadger » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:02 am

Sunak is getting upset at what he believes to be the smearing of his wife:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61034496

Article states that Non Dom is a status granted to those who intend to return home...costs £30k per year (rising to £60k after 12 years) and that the status is lost after 15 years.

Obviously - the only people paying this are those who find it cheaper than paying tax.

I wonder what happens to those that stay beyond 15 years... do HMRC go after these individuals for unpaid tax in the prior years (given they didn't return home as intended).Sunak married in 2009 - I assume they've been living here since then (although shes declined to say when her non dom status began) so the good news is that if he follows his wife he'll be gone by 2024 at the latest... possibly before.

Unless, you know, strings get pulled and rules get changed for a politicians foreign wife... but surely that couldn't happen here...
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dyqik
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Re: Non Doms

Post by dyqik » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:34 pm

Sunak himself apparently also got a Greencard - which requires attestation of the intent to live and work primarily in the United States - while Chancellor.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 53783.html

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bjn
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Re: Non Doms

Post by bjn » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:55 pm

dyqik wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:34 pm
Sunak himself apparently also got a Greencard - which requires attestation of the intent to live and work primarily in the United States - while Chancellor.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 53783.html
WTAF!!!!

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Grumble
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Re: Non Doms

Post by Grumble » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:58 pm

The rules are for little people.
A bit churlish

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Millennie Al » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:08 am

dyqik wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:34 pm
Sunak himself apparently also got a Greencard - which requires attestation of the intent to live and work primarily in the United States - while Chancellor.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 53783.html
That's not what the article says. It says:
Now Sky News reports claims that the Downing Street couple held US "green cards" permitting them residence in the United States until more than a year into his chancellorship.
Sunak did not get a green card while Chancellor - he retained one already held. And I don't see why people find it in the slightest bit difficult to imagine that someone born in Southampton to Indian parents who had emigrated from East Africa would have at some point intended to emigrate to America. Even more so for a woman born in India who was educated in America and met her future husband at Stanford. I thought it was only the right-wing loons that wanted everyone to stay where they were born.

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Re: Non Doms

Post by dyqik » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:12 pm

Millennie Al wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:08 am
dyqik wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:34 pm
Sunak himself apparently also got a Greencard - which requires attestation of the intent to live and work primarily in the United States - while Chancellor.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 53783.html
That's not what the article says. It says:
Now Sky News reports claims that the Downing Street couple held US "green cards" permitting them residence in the United States until more than a year into his chancellorship.
Sunak did not get a green card while Chancellor - he retained one already held. And I don't see why people find it in the slightest bit difficult to imagine that someone born in Southampton to Indian parents who had emigrated from East Africa would have at some point intended to emigrate to America. Even more so for a woman born in India who was educated in America and met her future husband at Stanford. I thought it was only the right-wing loons that wanted everyone to stay where they were born.
Sorry, you think he went from "intending to live in America" to "Chancellor of the Exchequer" in a year or two?

Yes, I had misunderstood the headline a little. But you lose a Greencard as soon as you spend less than 180 days in the US in a calendar year unless you apply for exemption from that rule with the attestation I mentioned, and reasons why you are more closely tied to the US than any other country.

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Millennie Al » Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:21 am

dyqik wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:12 pm
Sorry, you think he went from "intending to live in America" to "Chancellor of the Exchequer" in a year or two?
You think that it's impossible to intend to work abroad for a long period with the intention of returning?

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Re: Non Doms

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am

If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
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bjn
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Re: Non Doms

Post by bjn » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:48 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Because nothing shows commitment to you country as being able to run away at the drop of a hat. Just what you want in your politicians.

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Moreover it actually breaks American laws as you can’t be a high ranking member of a foreign government and have a green card.

In other news investigation into who leaked this is started. I wonder if it will be as effective as the one tracking down the Matt Hancock leaker or the one over the leak Gavin Williamson was sacked for.

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status ... hqu0R3Cw8A
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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jimbob
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Re: Non Doms

Post by jimbob » Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:14 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Moreover it actually breaks American laws as you can’t be a high ranking member of a foreign government and have a green card.

In other news investigation into who leaked this is started. I wonder if it will be as effective as the one tracking down the Matt Hancock leaker or the one over the leak Gavin Williamson was sacked for.

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status ... hqu0R3Cw8A
Who would also want to hobble Javid, who was also a non-dom when chancellor
https://twitter.com/pimlicat/status/1512902092586946566
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Stranger Mouse
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Re: Non Doms

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:42 am

jimbob wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:14 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Moreover it actually breaks American laws as you can’t be a high ranking member of a foreign government and have a green card.

In other news investigation into who leaked this is started. I wonder if it will be as effective as the one tracking down the Matt Hancock leaker or the one over the leak Gavin Williamson was sacked for.

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status ... hqu0R3Cw8A
Who would also want to hobble Javid, who was also a non-dom when chancellor
https://twitter.com/pimlicat/status/1512902092586946566
If you read that again I think it was before he was chancellor.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Re: Non Doms

Post by IvanV » Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:53 am

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 am
In other news investigation into who leaked this is started.
Person doing obviously wrong thing is outed. Person quickly rectifies wrong thing.

Obviously, what we now need is an investigation into who leaked this wrong thing, a leak that was plainly in the public interest.

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:56 am

IvanV wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:53 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 am
In other news investigation into who leaked this is started.
Person doing obviously wrong thing is outed. Person quickly rectifies wrong thing.

Obviously, what we now need is an investigation into who leaked this wrong thing, a leak that was plainly in the public interest.
I’ve lost the tweet but there’s a journalist saying one of his sources is saying that this inquiry will actually be pushed to find out anyone who requested the information. I know they may be looking for lefty remainers but the calls are coming from inside the house so to speak.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:01 pm

Also some criticism that Sunak’s wife’s promise may be meaningless https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/15 ... 1vErPnHueQ

1 non-dom doesn’t claim the remittance basis = taxed on all income

2 but not taxed on the income of an “excluded property trust” they created beforehand

The Independent reported that the Sunaks have an offshore trust. Is it an excluded property trust?

If it is, then Mrs Sunak’s pledge to pay UK tax on her income could be meaningless, ‘cause it could all be going into a trust, and so not be *her* income at all.
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Stranger Mouse » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:05 pm

Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:56 am
IvanV wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:53 am
Stranger Mouse wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 am
In other news investigation into who leaked this is started.
Person doing obviously wrong thing is outed. Person quickly rectifies wrong thing.

Obviously, what we now need is an investigation into who leaked this wrong thing, a leak that was plainly in the public interest.
I’ve lost the tweet but there’s a journalist saying one of his sources is saying that this inquiry will actually be pushed to find out anyone who requested the information. I know they may be looking for lefty remainers but the calls are coming from inside the house so to speak.
Here we go https://twitter.com/samfr/status/151308 ... 1vErPnHueQ
Oof. Rishi Sunak fighting back. Strong statement from source close to the Chancellor:

“This will be a more aggressive version of leak inquiries, where it will not only investigate who were the keepers of the sensitive information & who had access to that information, but also…

who, if anyone, requested to see it.

“The inquiry will be carried out with a view to potential criminal prosecutions because it is against the law to leak someone’s tax status.”
I’ve decided I should be on the pardon list if that’s still in the works

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Re: Non Doms

Post by veravista » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:11 pm

Another law suit for Private Eye then, they reported it a couple of months ago at least.

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Little waster » Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:57 pm

On a more general note

Top tip for any politician, if at any point you find yourself arguing "what I/we did was technically legal ..." you should start packing up your desktidy and begin fishing out the emergency chocolate bars and wraps of Charlie from the bottom drawer.

HTH.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

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Bird on a Fire
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Re: Non Doms

Post by Bird on a Fire » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:19 pm

it wasn't actually Stranger Mouse who wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:05 pm
it is against the law to leak someone’s tax status.”
Is there a good reason why?

I'm struggling to think what downsides there might be to having tax status as transparently public information.

Plus full returns of politicians, officials (including royalty) and major political donors (over idk £100k).

Lots of countries are less financially secretive than the UK - what problems do countries with public tax info encounter?
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Little waster
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Re: Non Doms

Post by Little waster » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:48 pm

Bird on a Fire wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:19 pm

Lots of countries are less financially secretive than the UK - what problems do countries with public tax info encounter?
Well for a start it's a lot harder to hide that bung ol'Biggsy gave me for suggesting to Ozzie that that £125m contract for surgical gowns be punted towards Mrs Biggsy and her Etsy account.

Or the constant stream of money I've been getting from that Kremiln-linked "businessman" for my invaluable "consultancy" services.

So you can see the problem ...
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

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Re: Non Doms

Post by Millennie Al » Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:40 am

El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Akshata Murty is none of those.

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jimbob
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Re: Non Doms

Post by jimbob » Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:00 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:40 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Akshata Murty is none of those.
But Sunak's household presumably benefits from these tax arrangements
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

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Re: Non Doms

Post by shpalman » Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:47 am

Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:40 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Akshata Murty is none of those.
Aren't we talking about Rishi Sunak's green card here?
molto tricky

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bjn
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Re: Non Doms

Post by bjn » Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:03 am

jimbob wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:00 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:40 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Akshata Murty is none of those.
But Sunak's household presumably benefits from these tax arrangements
Ministerial code of conduct, two sections...
7.3 On appointment to each new office, Ministers must provide
their Permanent Secretary with a full list in writing of all interests
which might be thought to give rise to a conflict. The list should
also cover interests of the Minister’s spouse or partner and close
family which might be thought to give rise to a conflict.
7.7 Ministers must scrupulously avoid any danger of an actual
or perceived conflict of interest between their Ministerial position
and their private financial interests
. They should be guided by the
general principle that they should either dispose of the interest
giving rise to the conflict or take alternative steps to prevent it. In
reaching their decision they should be guided by the advice given
to them by their Permanent Secretary and the independent
adviser on Ministers’ interests. Ministers’ decisions should not be
influenced by the hope or expectation of future employment with
17
a particular firm or organisation.

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El Pollo Diablo
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Re: Non Doms

Post by El Pollo Diablo » Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:56 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:47 am
Millennie Al wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:40 am
El Pollo Diablo wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:39 am
If an MP, yes it's impossible
If a cabinet minister, yes it's impossible
If Chancellor of the Exchequer, yes it's impossible
Akshata Murty is none of those.
Aren't we talking about Rishi Sunak's green card here?
Yes, yes we are.
They loved each other and believed they loved mankind, they fought each other and believed they fought the world.

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