Poor Brexit outcomes

Discussions about serious topics, for serious people
Post Reply
User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:19 pm


Attempts to attract a new wave of automakers such as Tesla and Rivian have faltered, while Britishvolt, which wanted to make batteries for electric cars, collapsed in January.

More importantly, long-term investors including Nissan and Toyota, which has a factory in Derby, are now questioning their future in the UK as the government aims to ban sales of petrol and diesel cars from 2030.

The foreign carmakers’ core concern is that Britain’s reputation as a stable and pragmatic place in which to manufacture vehicles has been shattered, initially by the 2016 Brexit vote, and more recently by last year’s political turmoil at Westminster.

“They are asking whether the UK is a stable partner,” said one person close to the Japanese companies.

[…]

Nissan and Toyota want clarity on the UK government’s vision for the car industry in the future.

“Understanding what the long-term industrial plan is, is something we would welcome,” said one person close to the companies.

Securing this clarity has been made harder by the recent political tumult at Westminster.

Rishi Sunak has shown significantly less enthusiasm for the UK auto sector than his predecessors, privately questioning the need for the government to support carmakers, according to two people who have heard the prime minister’s comments.
https://www.ft.com/content/97188172-b86 ... pe=nongift

I have edited the post and deleted text after a complaint that I had quoted too much.

User avatar
jimbob
Light of Blast
Posts: 5353
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 pm
Location: High Peak/Manchester

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by jimbob » Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:48 am

Little waster wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:00 pm
I'm sure this has already come up.

Hardman of Brexit Steve Baker is the real victim here.
The beard, the jewellery, is about my recovery. In November ’21 I had a major mental health crisis. I had anxiety and depression - I couldn’t go on.

“People couldn’t tell. I made a big keynote speech in the afternoon. But make no mistake, holding these tigers by the tail - Brexit, Covid Recovery Group, Net Zero Scrutiny Group, the tax stuff we did with Conservative Way Forward - took its toll.
I mean I have the appropriate amount of sympathy to have for anyone's mental health issues but the bolded bits are a full bingo card of Tory shite-hawkism.

It would be like Ian Brady complaining that no one ever sympathised with him over all the blisters he got digging the graves of those children,.
As @DanKaszeta said on Twitter, "be lenient on me for killing my parents, as I am an orphan"
Have you considered stupidity as an explanation

User avatar
Little waster
After Pie
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:35 am
Location: About 1 inch behind my eyes

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Little waster » Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:06 am

jimbob wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:48 am
Little waster wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 2:00 pm
I'm sure this has already come up.

Hardman of Brexit Steve Baker is the real victim here.
The beard, the jewellery, is about my recovery. In November ’21 I had a major mental health crisis. I had anxiety and depression - I couldn’t go on.

“People couldn’t tell. I made a big keynote speech in the afternoon. But make no mistake, holding these tigers by the tail - Brexit, Covid Recovery Group, Net Zero Scrutiny Group, the tax stuff we did with Conservative Way Forward - took its toll.
I mean I have the appropriate amount of sympathy to have for anyone's mental health issues but the bolded bits are a full bingo card of Tory shite-hawkism.

It would be like Ian Brady complaining that no one ever sympathised with him over all the blisters he got digging the graves of those children,.
As @DanKaszeta said on Twitter, "be lenient on me for killing my parents, as I am an orphan"
It certainly does nothing to dispel the appearance that all Brexiteers are completely sociopathic narcissists.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here, nothing valued is here.
What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us.
This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

Beaker
Stargoon
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:28 pm

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Beaker » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:11 pm

You may have various views on arms manufacturing, but this is about as clear cut a Brexit consequence as you could get.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... or-ukraine

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8324
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:13 pm

14 hour queues at Dover

“We’ve got a particular combination of factors that have occurred at this moment of time.”

For example, lots of people trying to leave England at the start of a school holiday since Brexit.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
Gfamily
Light of Blast
Posts: 5284
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:00 pm
Location: NW England

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Gfamily » Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:46 pm

shpalman wrote:
Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:13 pm
14 hour queues at Dover

“We’ve got a particular combination of factors that have occurred at this moment of time.”

For example, lots of people trying to leave England at the start of a school holiday since Brexit.
We came off the ferry at Caen on Sunday evening, MrsG had her passport stamped and dated, but the biggest processing delay was the Immigration Control guy having a chat about the fact that my Irish Passport meant he didn't need to stamp and date it. He also thought it worthwhile to tell us how a friend of his had moved from France to Ireland for work, and how easy it was.

I'm sure the people behind us were delighted!
My avatar was a scientific result that was later found to be 'mistaken' - I rarely claim to be 100% correct
ETA 5/8/20: I've been advised that the result was correct, it was the initial interpretation that needed to be withdrawn
Meta? I'd say so!

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8324
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:54 pm

having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:20 am

Deporting the woman with Alzheimer's seems harsh and an exception on humanitarian grounds would be good.

But from the article:

An application made on her behalf by her family has been rejected because she does not have an up-to-date passport or financial statements to demonstrate her right to be in the country post-Brexit.

The family told the authorities they did not have an updated passport because their mother is bedridden and does not travel.
It looks like the family didn’t get the correct paperwork in order.

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:38 pm

Ministers have begun a full-scale retreat over post-Brexit plans to ditch thousands of EU laws by the end of this year, after Tory peers warned they would join a mass cross-party revolt in the House of Lords.

The Observer can reveal that the government has dropped plans to hold the report stage of the Brexiters’ retained EU law bill in the Lords soon after Easter, apparently to prevent a row in the run-up to the local elections on 4 May and to allow it time to consider a list of likely concessions to rebels.

While such a climbdown risks angering hardline Tory Brexiters, including the bill’s original champion, Jacob Rees-Mogg, the extent of opposition to it from business, environmental groups, unions and Brussels has left ministers with no option but to consider delay, and moving to a scaled-down and less hurried version.

[…]

Another source in the Lords said: “The penny has dropped with No 10. There is a recognition that unless they make concessions they are in ‘baby out with the bathwater’ territory. They will be causing legal chaos on many fronts for the sake of pleasing Rees-Mogg and the Tory right.”

Concern has also been rising within government departments over the amount of civil service time that the bill has been taking and, more recently, the way the legal fallout could complicate Rishi Sunak’s recently signed Windsor framework deal with Brussels on the operation of the Northern Ireland protocol.

[…]

Senior figures in Brussels have also weighed in, saying that if environmental and other standards are allowed to fall in the UK, threatening the so-called “level playing field”, this could seriously undermine the UK’s post-Brexit trade deal with the EU and potentially lead to a trade war.
Not going to happen. Not in 2023, 2027, 2030…
The bill is now the responsibility Kemi Badenoch, the business and trade secretary. One idea understood to be under consideration is for Badenoch to announce in the coming months a list of obviously redundant EU laws that could be abolished without controversy and hail this symbolic move as proof that ministers were delivering on Brexit.

Another idea is to extend the “sunset clause” under which laws would cease to apply by at least another year, taking them beyond the likely date of the next general election, meaning the bill would in effect never come into force. Within the civil service, officials say it is inevitable that most of the EU laws will be retained.
Sunak showing some political acumen.

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... of-eu-laws

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8324
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 pm

German musicians refused entry to UK for trying to use “permitted paid engagement” instead of having a “certificate of sponsorship” from each venue they were due to play.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
bjn
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2951
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:58 pm
Location: London

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by bjn » Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:04 pm

shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 pm
German musicians refused entry to UK for trying to use “permitted paid engagement” instead of having a “certificate of sponsorship” from each venue they were due to play.
if they had a “certificate of sponsorship” instead, would the demand have been for “permitted paid engagement” instead?

IvanV
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2784
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by IvanV » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:19 am

bjn wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:04 pm
shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 pm
German musicians refused entry to UK for trying to use “permitted paid engagement” instead of having a “certificate of sponsorship” from each venue they were due to play.
if they had a “certificate of sponsorship” instead, would the demand have been for “permitted paid engagement” instead?
Political performance art, drawing attention to similar issues in the reverse direction.

Except, of course, it is our fault. Johnson turned down a reciprocal deal on performing musicians, that was available free and for nothing.

User avatar
bjn
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2951
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:58 pm
Location: London

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by bjn » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:34 am

Well yes, Brexit is an exercise in nose cutting and spiting faces.

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8324
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:38 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 pm
German musicians refused entry to UK for trying to use “permitted paid engagement” instead of having a “certificate of sponsorship” from each venue they were due to play.
... a Border Force officer asked them for a “certificate of sponsorship” (COS) from each venue they were due to play...

A COS is an alternative route into the UK, regarded as “a safer bet” but with more onerous paperwork, said [Ian Smith, a longtime music agent who co-founded Carry On Touring and ukeartswork.info, which campaigns to help artists work in the EU and UK]. It involves a promoter sponsoring the band and checking their eligibility and vouching for them during their stay in the UK, from a few days to up to 90 days.
So they needed a COS "from each venue" but it actually involves a promoter sponsoring the band for up to 90 days... so you'd think one COS would be enough.

Visit the UK for a Permitted Paid Engagement:
You may be able to visit the UK for a paid engagement if you’ve been invited as an expert in your profession by a UK-based organisation or client.

You can visit the UK for up to 1 month. You cannot extend your stay in the UK.

...

You can be invited and paid by a UK-based organisation or client:
  • as a professional artist, entertainer or musician
  • as a professional sportsperson
  • as a qualified lawyer - to represent a client
  • to give a lecture or series of lectures
  • as an academic - to be a student examiner or assessor
  • as an air pilot examiner
Note the COS link doesn't mention entertainment, only sports. So it seems entirely reasonable for a group of musicians who intend to spend less than a month in the UK to play a few gigs to expect to be able to do it under the PPE.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8324
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:38 am

bjn wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:34 am
Well yes, Brexit is an exercise in nose cutting and spiting faces.
Britain in general is an exercise in cock-sh.tting jobsworth computer-says-no hair splitting.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
TimW
Catbabel
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:27 pm

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by TimW » Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:46 am

There's some helpful guidance at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visiting-th ... al-country
Scenario 1

An orchestra is coming to the UK to perform, for which they will be paid by a UK company that is hosting the event.

If the orchestra is staying for up to one month, they can come under the permitted paid engagement route and do not need to apply for a visa in advance. Upon arrival at the border, they must not use the ePassport gates, and must see a Border Force officer to provide proof of their permitted paid engagement to gain the appropriate stamp in their passports. Without the passport stamp, they will not be allowed to carry out their performance in the UK. See Entering the UK - At border control for more information.

If the orchestra intends to stay for up to 3 months, they may be able to use the Temporary Work - Creative Worker visa concession. At the border they must not use the ePassport gates, and must see a Border Force officer and provide their Certificate of Sponsorship to gain the appropriate stamp in their passports. Without the passport stamp, they will not be allowed to carry out their performance in the UK. See Creative Worker visa concession for more information.

If they intend to stay longer, they will need to apply (before arrival and outside the UK) for a Temporary Work - Creative Worker visa...
Definitely PPE in this case then, it seems.

IvanV
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2784
Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by IvanV » Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:11 am

TimW wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2023 10:46 am
There's some helpful guidance at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/visiting-th ... al-country
Scenario 1

An orchestra is coming to the UK to perform, for which they will be paid by a UK company that is hosting the event.

If the orchestra is staying for up to one month, they can come under the permitted paid engagement route and do not need to apply for a visa in advance. Upon arrival at the border, they must not use the ePassport gates, and must see a Border Force officer to provide proof of their permitted paid engagement to gain the appropriate stamp in their passports. Without the passport stamp, they will not be allowed to carry out their performance in the UK. See Entering the UK - At border control for more information.

If the orchestra intends to stay for up to 3 months, they may be able to use the Temporary Work - Creative Worker visa concession. At the border they must not use the ePassport gates, and must see a Border Force officer and provide their Certificate of Sponsorship to gain the appropriate stamp in their passports. Without the passport stamp, they will not be allowed to carry out their performance in the UK. See Creative Worker visa concession for more information.

If they intend to stay longer, they will need to apply (before arrival and outside the UK) for a Temporary Work - Creative Worker visa...
Definitely PPE in this case then, it seems.
The guidance is unclear about the situation of several paid engagements, which in practice is a likely case. That gives the border person licence to make it up on the spot interpret the situation. And in practice they have power to do that, say "no" and send you back, with very little come-back.

With the hostile environment that has existed in immigration since Mrs May was Home Secretary, the kind of people who worked in that area and who couldn't tolerate it have substantially found other jobs, and those that tend to agree with it form a substantial fraction who remain or joined. So the hostile environment permeates immigration. There are other visitors who appear to have followed the guidance to the letter and either been deported after arrival, or else denied entry. making the news. Cock-up is a more common explanation than conspiracy, but it does seem convenient for certain people.

User avatar
Opti
Dorkwood
Posts: 1484
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:21 pm
Location: On the beach

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Opti » Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:30 am

The grassroots music scene in the UK is dying on it's arse. Firstly, there are fewer and fewer venues for new acts to perform and build up a following and hone their skills. Much of this is caused by the fact that a huge number of venues are rented and landlords see more profitable opportunities to increase their revenue. The Music Venue Trust has just had a funding drive that raised £2.5 million to help music promoters to own their premises. The situation isn't helped by local councils enforcing noise regulations when a new neighbour complains about the volume when they move into properties in a thriving historic arts community.

In other large entertainment outfits, say football, those at the top often have schemes to help out the grassroots level in order to nurture new players.
The music business doesn't do a thing. It's amazing that they can't see the sense in having something like a £1 levy on big show tickets ( often £50+, sometimes £100) to recycle into acts of the future. But they don't.

Actions like this one by border officials is just another nail in the coffin. So f.cking shortsighted.
Time for a big fat one.

User avatar
JQH
After Pie
Posts: 2153
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:30 pm
Location: Sar Flandan

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by JQH » Tue Apr 11, 2023 1:35 pm

Yep. Soon be no new native talent and we won't be able to see new talent from mainland Europe. Cultural backwater status looms.
And remember that if you botch the exit, the carnival of reaction may be coming to a town near you.

Fintan O'Toole

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:07 am

UK’s goods exports lowest in G7 following Brexit, study finds
Britain’s performance labelled ‘a disaster’ as red tape hits trade with the EU

Britain’s goods exports are lagging all other G7 economies, according to an analysis by the Financial Times, which trade experts said provided more evidence of the impact of Brexit.

Quarterly figures published by the Office for National Statistics in March showed that in the last three months of 2022, UK export volumes, excluding precious metals, were more than 9 per cent below the 2019 pre-pandemic average.

Analyses by the Bank of England and the Office for Budget Responsibility, the UK fiscal watchdog, show that the country’s exports may be even weaker, with the OBR predicting that the underperformance will continue for the next two years.

Sophie Hale, trade economist at the Resolution Foundation think-tank, described the UK’s performance as “a disaster”. The drop in goods export volumes marked “a quite substantial fall and it really leaves the UK at the bottom of the G7 pack”, she added.

The ONS data shows the UK had the weakest export performance in the G7, and compares with double-digit rises in Italian and Japanese exports, 4 per cent growth for the US and 2 per cent for Germany.

The findings come as the IMF predicted that the UK economy would be the worst performing in the G7 in 2023, contracting by 0.3 per cent.
https://www.ft.com/content/fd35fe46-743 ... pe=blocked

User avatar
shpalman
Princess POW
Posts: 8324
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:53 pm
Location: One step beyond
Contact:

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by shpalman » Thu Apr 13, 2023 11:03 am

shpalman wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:48 pm
German musicians refused entry to UK for trying to use “permitted paid engagement” instead of having a “certificate of sponsorship” from each venue they were due to play.
may have been because they have day jobs and aren't full time professional musicians

But it's not as if they were going to do those other jobs while in the UK, for the f.cking sake of all f.cking f.ck what's wrong with people.
having that swing is a necessary but not sufficient condition for it meaning a thing
@shpalman@mastodon.me.uk

User avatar
bjn
Stummy Beige
Posts: 2951
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:58 pm
Location: London

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by bjn » Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:21 am

It is not just German rock bands that can’t get visas, but Ukrainian orchestras that the UK government itself was touting.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... as-play-uk

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Tue May 16, 2023 1:08 pm

Nigel Farage states that Brexit has failed https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status ... 63106?s=20

FlammableFlower
Dorkwood
Posts: 1518
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by FlammableFlower » Tue May 16, 2023 1:10 pm

Byeee Nige...

Like he would!

User avatar
Woodchopper
Princess POW
Posts: 7152
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:05 am

Re: Poor Brexit outcomes

Post by Woodchopper » Wed Jun 28, 2023 8:20 am

According to an in-depth analysis by trade economists released this month, high-end UK manufacturing that feeds into EU supply chains is going to find itself being increasingly squeezed by the challenges of post-Brexit trade.

Nearly 50 per cent of UK manufacturing exports to the EU are so-called “intermediate” in nature, feeding components into EU supply chains that are then often exported onwards to the rest of the world as finished products.

[…]

The report by the Resolution Foundation said that UK global exports in the first three months of 2023 were still 17 per cent below the levels before the EU-UK trade deal came into force three years ago, and warned that the UK’s more advanced manufacturers would be supplanted by lower-productivity domestic manufacturing in the longer term.

It cited the UK auto industry’s recent struggles to attract investment to build the battery factories needed for the electric car revolution as a harbinger of the future challenges facing other high-value sectors, including machinery, chemicals and computer equipment manufacturing.

“Although these [EU-UK] supply chains will take time to disentangle, they will shrink the UK’s high productivity manufacturing — from chemicals to spacecraft — as they do,” the report warned.

With manufacturing accounting for nearly 50 per cent of UK exports, the report added that the structural shift would further contribute to the longstanding productivity crisis that has weighed on the UK economy since 2008.

“Policymakers need to face the choice over whether or not to stay part of EU supply chains, to support high productivity manufacturers, and they need to accept that doing so means addressing the EU border,” the report said.

UK lags behind the majority of G7 countries in goods exports. Chart showing the index of goods exports values for G7 countries in the following sectors. Vehicles Chemicals Other manufacturing Agri-food

[…]

“Nothing will disappear overnight, but chemical plants are 20-40 year investments and talking to people we work with in Europe, they see economic and political instability in the UK compared with the EU,” Mathers said.

A survey of US businesses this month by BritishAmerican Business, a transatlantic trade association, saw confidence in the UK slipping for the third consecutive year, with two-thirds of US businesses putting improving EU-UK trade relations among their top three priorities.
https://www.ft.com/content/2f99a9c3-507 ... 87a1ad6921

Post Reply